Piece of Crap software - Black vs cmyk

A

anyone

I've just spent a day trying to get a solid black from a text box set as
word art.
ftp://ftp.20-20reproductions.com/Allegra%20Southfield/MS%20Publisher%20-%20Newsletter/
User Kelly
pw 1234
piece of crap...

Yeah...I've looked at commercial printing tools > color...changed as many
options as there are.
Black > Grayscale > CMYK > Spot > changed black to Pantone Process black,
set the CMYK as 0,0,0,100 blah blah blah
Yeah, I've perused all the previous posts in re: Treje M seemed to allude
to writing a step by step fix
piece of crap...

more later
 
M

Matt Beals

First of all, how did you create the PDF? Did you print to Distiller using
PDFMaker?

Second, which settings in Distiller did you use?

Third, are you sure that the mailing panel is the proper orientation for the
post office?

Fourth, bleeds are missing...

So before we start calling the software crap we should make sure that our
ducks are in a row...

Do you know that everything passing through the Windows GDI currently (and
always has) been converted to RGB? Vista is supposed to fix this problem.
Did you also know that you can fix much of this by configuring you printer
driver properly? Did you know that there are inexpensive tools for fixing
this?

http://www.mattbeals.com/publisher/

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware, Apago, Callas & Gradual Recognized Trainer

(206) 618-2537 - cell
(720) 367-3869 - fax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML emails
 
M

Matt Beals

http://www.mattbeals.com/misc/terrimaster.pdf

Not so much of a piece of "cr@p" any more with a few mouse clicks...

I'm no fan of Publisher, but it's not that bad if you know how to deal with
it. I actually pursue Publisher users because so many print providers shun
Publisher files. The printers I work with get press ready PDF's so that they
don't have to "deal" with Publisher. So I do it for them and send them the
business. I'll take them any day...

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer, Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - cell
(720) 367-3869 - fax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML emails
 
P

pdan

Matt Beals said:
First of all, how did you create the PDF? Did you print to Distiller using
PDFMaker?
Click to expand...

My normal course for any potential problem file is to either write to file
(.ps) or in the case of Pub save as .ps
Saved as .ps and distilled using various settings for black in the .pub. We
used .ps from Publisher, .ps from a printer with port set to file (nn Agfa
1000 imagesetter which does not support color), and straight to Distiller as
a printer.
Second, which settings in Distiller did you use?
Click to expand...

Distilled using Press, Print, & PDFx1a
Third, are you sure that the mailing panel is the proper orientation for
the
post office?
Click to expand...

n/a, the post office will consider this a flat
Fourth, bleeds are missing...
Click to expand...

Explain that to Suzy Secretary, the creator. We'll print and trim to 10.875"
So before we start calling the software crap we should make sure that our
ducks are in a row...
Click to expand...

I typically know where my ducks are. We have the full Adobe Creative Suite
2, Enfocus PitStop Professional and a slew of other tools including the MSPP
for print providers only version of 2003 and Guide for Output issues
publication. (And before we discuss PitStop as a fix, note that the c,m,y,
out put is not a solid area easily selected. We would have to select upwards
of 50 paths, this should be a workflow, not screw with a hammer exercise)
Do you know that everything passing through the Windows GDI currently (and
always has) been converted to RGB? Vista is supposed to fix this problem.
Did you also know that you can fix much of this by configuring you printer
driver properly? Did you know that there are inexpensive tools for fixing
this?
Click to expand...

That might be fascinating reading for codewriters. As far as "configuring
our printers properly" there's never been a thread in the pertinant desktop
publishing newsgroups any indication that distiller will effect the color
model for 100% black, color management not withstanding.

I have visited you action exchange site btw in the past. Would love to see
some actions to convert rich blacks to 100k. PitStop has never impressed me.
Actions which seem very straightforward seldom seem to work. I can't tell
haw many times we've wanted to globally change a font missing in the doc to
a system font. 3 to 10 clicks, selects, and apply which seem very intuitive
just yield no effect.
 
P

pdan

Matt Beals said:
http://www.mattbeals.com/misc/terrimaster.pdf
Click to expand...

As mentioned in the other thread, one would rather know how to fix a file in
a streamlined fashion rather than start dumping files into Ill, PitStop, ID
or Quark to overlay corrections. Note the double imposed text on page 2,
top, of the revised file your link points to. Of the three files,
ftp://ftp.20-20reproductions.com/Allegra%20Southfield/MS%20Publisher%20-%20Newsletter/,
the word art box on the left could be deleted and substitued in any
preferred page layout app to obtain a 100% k. (That will almost certainly
be our fix come monday a.m.)

Would like to know if Matt, Mary or JoAnn can explain publishers handling of
black in the wordart and all black strokes (frames used). Is this a
Publisher possible situation or not?
 
M

Matt Beals

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Apago, Calls, Gradual & Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - Cell
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

My normal course for any potential problem file is to either write to file
(.ps) or in the case of Pub save as .ps
Saved as .ps and distilled using various settings for black in the .pub. We
used .ps from Publisher, .ps from a printer with port set to file (nn Agfa
1000 imagesetter which does not support color), and straight to Distiller as
a printer.
Click to expand...

Make sure that the driver handles gray properly since Windows doesn't.
Distilled using Press, Print, & PDFx1a
Click to expand...

Just convert using High Quality and avoid Distiller converting RGB to
CMYK so it can be done either in Acrobat or some other program. Rich blacks
are a real pain in type.
n/a, the post office will consider this a flat


Explain that to Suzy Secretary, the creator. We'll print and trim to 10.875"
Click to expand...

It's easy to explain. Five minutes on the phone. Not only is it a
customer service moment where you get to build a better relationship with
them (which means potentially more business) but you also manufacture the
job according to specifications.
I typically know where my ducks are. We have the full Adobe Creative Suite
2, Enfocus PitStop Professional and a slew of other tools including the MSPP
for print providers only version of 2003 and Guide for Output issues
publication. (And before we discuss PitStop as a fix, note that the c,m,y,
out put is not a solid area easily selected. We would have to select upwards
of 50 paths, this should be a workflow, not screw with a hammer exercise)
Click to expand...

CMY is an easy selection to convert to real gray. Even automatically
fixing...
That might be fascinating reading for codewriters. As far as "configuring
our printers properly" there's never been a thread in the pertinant desktop
publishing newsgroups any indication that distiller will effect the color
model for 100% black, color management not withstanding.
Click to expand...

Well, there have been posts by me in other places (I think in here too)
on how to properly configure your printer driver to handle RGB gray/black
properly. Not to mention forcing the download of the font used rather than a
substitution.
I have visited you action exchange site btw in the past.
Click to expand...

Great! Thanks.
Would love to see some actions to convert rich blacks to 100k.
Click to expand...

There are lots of them. Some of them make very broad selections and
other make very specific selections.
PitStop has never impressed me. Actions which seem very straightforward seldom
seem to work.
Click to expand...

Something must not be jiving between what the action specifically is
selecting and what is able to be selected in the document.
I can't tell haw many times we've wanted to globally change a font missing in
the doc to a system font. 3 to 10 clicks, selects, and apply which seem very
intuitive just yield no effect.
Click to expand...

That is a very easy change to make in global change. Even easier in an
action list.
 
M

Matt Beals

Well the first thing to do is to make as many of the corrections in the
native file as possible. There's not much of a need to go to InDesign or
Illustrator.

Just so everyone is clear: Illustrator is NOT a PDF editor. Adobe
Illustrator understands Adobe Illustrator EPS and Adobe Illustrator PDF. It
does not fully understand PDF or EPS. A Illustrator EPS or PDF is a EPS or
PDF that also includes a version of the document as a native Illustrator
document. Only Adobe Acrobat understands Adobe PDF in the broad sense.

Overlaying corrections is not necessarily the best course of action. Editing
in the original application is.

Converting any objects color space to 100%k is easy enough to do in PitStop
or in other programs. Callas pdfColorConvert will take RGB blacks and grays
and turn them into separation black (a spot black plate). PDF Enhancer can
make it device gray as well as PitStop.

Publisher by it's very nature, since it uses Windows GDI, converts
everything to RGB, even the separations of color. It is my understanding
that now in Publisher 2003 that gray is dealt with as gray. Vista is
supposed to fix this behavior by preserving CMYK and Device N colors
(spots).

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Apago, Calls, Gradual & Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 618-2537 - Cell
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.mattbeals.com
http://www.actionlistexchange.net
http://www.mattbeals.com/blog/

Friends don't let friends write HTML email
 
M

Microsoft

Well, I haven't had the time so far!
It seems like some black has a value of RGB 33,33,32.
Just go to "Tools/Commercial Printing Tools/Color" (I think, have the
Norwegian version).
Make sure the black is RGB 0,0,0.

Then I convert RGB to CMYK in Adobe Acrobat 7 Prof using the PDFx/1A
settings.
Acrobat 7 makes a better conversion than doing the whole Publisher file i
CMYK.

This works perfect with my printshops platemaker and 4 color press.

Regards Terje
 
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