POP3 *Bug*

[Johannes Doe]

Hi guys,
I have been having problems with Entourage 2004's POP3 feature ever since I
switched, I have posted this problem already, but noone seemed to care. It's
as if I was the only one on this planet with this problem. I assume it's
because noone uses the setup that I currently have, which is why you never
realized the bug. Here we go again:

I have two POP3 accounts. I have my computer constantly on (DSL), with
Entourage running. I get around 40 spam messages daily per POP3 account.
Both accounts are with freemail services, that allow web access as well. For
that reason, I like keeping all my email on the server for at least 30 days,
so I can check messages that I need to refer back to even when I am on the
road using the web interface. Spam gets marked as spam by a nifty little
tool called popfile. But, the spam messages I don't care for, so I have a
filter set in Entourage to filter all my spam into a separate folder. Every
once in a while I move the contents of that folder when it reaches around a
hundred messages into the trash, from there I empty the trash. Now Entourage
is supposed to delete those spam messages from the server, since I have the
options set accordingly in my preferences. All non-spam messages stay on the
server for 30 days, since that's how I have set Entourage as well, for both
accounts.
So much for the theory. The problem is, that Entourage doesn't seem to
delete the spam messages from the server when I empty the trash. So after
quitting and restarting Entourage, the application happily downloads the
spam messages off the server as if it had never seen them before. This only
happens with one POP3 account. The other one is fine.

This problem doesn't appear in any previous Entourage versions.

I have tried reinstalling from scratch (deleting preference files beforehand
and the Microsoft User Data folder), I have tried setting up my accounts
fresh, rebuilding the database, pretty much everything. Since none of my
measures have helped (I consider myself a not so stupid mac user anyway),
and considering the fact that the previous versions of Entourage don't have
that problem, I am guessing that there is a *bug* in Entourage 2004.

Is anybody out there listening? Hello Mac BU? I bet you 20 bucks it's a bug.
If you don't fix it, fine, but *at least* consider taking a look at this
even though I can see how this is not top priority since not many users use
this setup that I use and therefore don't complain. I would already be happy
if Microsoft acknowledged it had a bug, even if they didn't fix it. At least
I know it's not my fault (i.e. I am still sane) then and can sleep at night.

Joe

 

[Joel Nelson]

Hi guys,
I have been having problems with Entourage 2004's POP3 feature ever since I
switched, I have posted this problem already, but noone seemed to care. It's
as if I was the only one on this planet with this problem. I assume it's
because noone uses the setup that I currently have, which is why you never
realized the bug. Here we go again:

I have two POP3 accounts. I have my computer constantly on (DSL), with
Entourage running. I get around 40 spam messages daily per POP3 account.
Both accounts are with freemail services, that allow web access as well. For
that reason, I like keeping all my email on the server for at least 30 days,
so I can check messages that I need to refer back to even when I am on the
road using the web interface. Spam gets marked as spam by a nifty little
tool called popfile. But, the spam messages I don't care for, so I have a
filter set in Entourage to filter all my spam into a separate folder. Every
once in a while I move the contents of that folder when it reaches around a
hundred messages into the trash, from there I empty the trash. Now Entourage
is supposed to delete those spam messages from the server, since I have the
options set accordingly in my preferences. All non-spam messages stay on the
server for 30 days, since that's how I have set Entourage as well, for both
accounts.
So much for the theory. The problem is, that Entourage doesn't seem to
delete the spam messages from the server when I empty the trash. So after
quitting and restarting Entourage, the application happily downloads the
spam messages off the server as if it had never seen them before. This only
happens with one POP3 account. The other one is fine.

This problem doesn't appear in any previous Entourage versions.

I have tried reinstalling from scratch (deleting preference files beforehand
and the Microsoft User Data folder), I have tried setting up my accounts
fresh, rebuilding the database, pretty much everything. Since none of my
measures have helped (I consider myself a not so stupid mac user anyway),
and considering the fact that the previous versions of Entourage don't have
that problem, I am guessing that there is a *bug* in Entourage 2004.

Is anybody out there listening? Hello Mac BU? I bet you 20 bucks it's a bug.
If you don't fix it, fine, but *at least* consider taking a look at this
even though I can see how this is not top priority since not many users use
this setup that I use and therefore don't complain. I would already be happy
if Microsoft acknowledged it had a bug, even if they didn't fix it. At least
I know it's not my fault (i.e. I am still sane) then and can sleep at night.

Joe

Are you using the built-in Entourage 2004 junk filter?

 

[Johannes Doe]

Are you using the built-in Entourage 2004 junk filter?

No.

 

[phil maher]

I have experienced the same problem and it also only affects one of my pop3
accounts!

The only work around I've found is not to tick the Leave a copy of each
messages on server options for the problem pop3 account.

One difference is that I experienced this problem with Entourage X -
so...... I am trialling out Entourage 2004 and now the problem is worse! In
Edit Account/Options the option to not tick the Leave a copy of each Message
on server is greyed out and a tick is in the box i.e. I cannot choose not to
leave a copy of messages on the server and now I get all messages left on
server each time I check for mail!!

So I'm back to entourage X which is a shame cause the project centre is
almost what I need..........

Hi guys,
I have been having problems with Entourage 2004's POP3 feature ever since I
switched, I have posted this problem already, but noone seemed to care. It's
as if I was the only one on this planet with this problem. I assume it's
because noone uses the setup that I currently have, which is why you never
realized the bug. Here we go again:

I have two POP3 accounts. I have my computer constantly on (DSL), with
Entourage running. I get around 40 spam messages daily per POP3 account.
Both accounts are with freemail services, that allow web access as well. For
that reason, I like keeping all my email on the server for at least 30 days,
so I can check messages that I need to refer back to even when I am on the
road using the web interface. Spam gets marked as spam by a nifty little
tool called popfile. But, the spam messages I don't care for, so I have a
filter set in Entourage to filter all my spam into a separate folder. Every
once in a while I move the contents of that folder when it reaches around a
hundred messages into the trash, from there I empty the trash. Now Entourage
is supposed to delete those spam messages from the server, since I have the
options set accordingly in my preferences. All non-spam messages stay on the
server for 30 days, since that's how I have set Entourage as well, for both
accounts.
So much for the theory. The problem is, that Entourage doesn't seem to
delete the spam messages from the server when I empty the trash. So after
quitting and restarting Entourage, the application happily downloads the
spam messages off the server as if it had never seen them before. This only
happens with one POP3 account. The other one is fine.

This problem doesn't appear in any previous Entourage versions.

I have tried reinstalling from scratch (deleting preference files beforehand
and the Microsoft User Data folder), I have tried setting up my accounts
fresh, rebuilding the database, pretty much everything. Since none of my
measures have helped (I consider myself a not so stupid mac user anyway),
and considering the fact that the previous versions of Entourage don't have
that problem, I am guessing that there is a *bug* in Entourage 2004.

Is anybody out there listening? Hello Mac BU? I bet you 20 bucks it's a bug.
If you don't fix it, fine, but *at least* consider taking a look at this
even though I can see how this is not top priority since not many users use
this setup that I use and therefore don't complain. I would already be happy
if Microsoft acknowledged it had a bug, even if they didn't fix it. At least
I know it's not my fault (i.e. I am still sane) then and can sleep at night.

Joe

Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.

 

[Tony Godino]

another pop issue; I can not get the send to the ATT smtp mail box to work
when commecting. I tried the ssl enabler but still nothing.
from the power book with entourage.
From the PC with outlook it works.
There is no error message.
Anyone ever got it to work to att?

 

[Johannes Doe]

I have experienced the same problem and it also only affects one of my pop3
accounts!

Yippie!!!! I am not the only one. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So it is
a bug, after all.

Microsoft guys, where are you? I am most willing to help troubleshoot if you
need a guinea pig.

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

The problem is, that Entourage doesn't seem to
delete the spam messages from the server when I empty the trash. So after
quitting and restarting Entourage, the application happily downloads the
spam messages off the server as if it had never seen them before. This only
happens with one POP3 account. The other one is fine.

If you have two computers with the same setup, and only one misbehaves, I
don't see why you would assume this is a bug in Entourage? Doesn't it seem
more likely that there is something on the misbehaving computer that
interferes, or with the misbehaving POP3 account? Are the two accounts with
exactly the same service/ISP?

Further, there are two separate issues here. One, Entourage doesn't delete
the spam messages from the server. Two, Entourage fails to mark messages on
the server as already downloaded, and downloads them again.

I suspect that One is the consequence of Two, and not the other way around,
as you put it. If Entourage had successfully marked the spam messages as
downloaded, it would probably also manage to delete them. From your own
description of your habits, I bet there are times when you check the
behaving POP3 account, before having actually deleted the previously
downloaded spam, and don't get the spam downloaded again. (I hope that
makes sense)

Might your spam tool (popfile?) be acting differently on the one account, as
that is the actual tool in charge of marking the spam messages, it seems?
Perhaps try accessing the misbehaving account without using Popfile as an
intermediary, and see if Entourage is able to mark and delete the spam
successfully.

Perhaps turning around the problem like this will help you
troubleshoot....Also note that to *ensure* your experience is logged by the
MacBU, send Feedback under Help, although they also monitor these groups.
You should probably report exactly what freemail services you are using.

DM

 

[Johannes Doe]

If you have two computers with the same setup, and only one misbehaves, I
don't see why you would assume this is a bug in Entourage?

Reread my post. I am using Entourage X on the same machine as Entourage X
2004. Entourage X is fine, Entourage X 2004 acts up. There are two POP3
accounts I use with both versions, on Entourage X everything is fine, on
Entourage X 2004 one of my two POP3 accounts has the problem.

Further, there are two separate issues here. One, Entourage doesn't delete
the spam messages from the server. Two, Entourage fails to mark messages on
the server as already downloaded, and downloads them again.

I agree.

description of your habits, I bet there are times when you check the
behaving POP3 account, before having actually deleted the previously
downloaded spam, and don't get the spam downloaded again. (I hope that
makes sense)

No it doesn't. But it's ok. I didn't screw up my sequence like checking if I
deleted messages before I deleted them, if you mean that sort of thing.

Might your spam tool (popfile?) be acting differently on the one account, as
that is the actual tool in charge of marking the spam messages, it seems?
Perhaps try accessing the misbehaving account without using Popfile as an
intermediary, and see if Entourage is able to mark and delete the spam
successfully.

Why would it? Especially considering Entourage X works fine with popfile,
while Entourage X 2004 doesn't. Popfile is nothing but a proxy that passes
through commands transparently without "judgement" (other than adding
headers).

Perhaps turning around the problem like this will help you
troubleshoot....Also note that to *ensure* your experience is logged by the
MacBU, send Feedback under Help, although they also monitor these groups.

One day I will try the Feedback form.

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

The bug only seems to occur with one particular mail service, though? It
must be something in the interaction of Entourage 2004 and that mail
service, since Entourage 2004 works with your other service? Have you asked
that mail service about it? They may know if they do something that
Entourage 2004 can't handle.

From your first message:

Is anybody out there listening? Hello Mac BU? I bet you 20 bucks it's a bug.
If you don't fix it, fine, but *at least* consider taking a look at this
even though I can see how this is not top priority since not many users use
this setup that I use and therefore don't complain. I would already be happy
if Microsoft acknowledged it had a bug, even if they didn't fix it. At least
I know it's not my fault (i.e. I am still sane) then and can sleep at night.

You will have to tell them what mail service, and they will have to be able
to reproduce it, before there's any hope of getting it fixed or even
acknowledged, I'm sure. Otherwise they won't be able to figure out exactly
which change in the way Ent 2004 communicates with POP3 servers broke
certain mail services but not others. It might also give you good ammunition
for the Feedback report if you confirm that Mail doesn't have the same
problem.

DM

 

[Johannes Doe]

The bug only seems to occur with one particular mail service, though? It
must be something in the interaction of Entourage 2004 and that mail
service, since Entourage 2004 works with your other service? Have you asked
that mail service about it? They may know if they do something that
Entourage 2004 can't handle.

That one particular service is perfectly fine. It also works perfectly fine
with Entourage v.X. (the previous version to Entourage 2004). It is
Entourage 2004 that cannot handle that particular service. I doubt it's a
service issue at all, it's simply a bug using multiple POP3 accounts. *sigh*

 

[phil maher]

I'm experiencing the same problems as Johannes - ie it affects one email
service but not the other even though they are both set up the same.

One difference I have is that it also occurred under Entourage X (and
continues to occur under Entourgae 2004 but i'm only using the 30 day trial
version). Is it possible that one of the recent OSX upgrades (i'm using
10.3.4) is the culprit? Ie if it wasn't a probllem for Johannes using
Entourage X maybe he was using a previous version of OSX with that? I'm just
curious that it affected me using Entourage X but not him??

Both my mail services are paid for (the working one with my ISP and the
other problematic one with my registered domain name and hosted by my ISP).
I've talked to them about it and they cannot enlighten me why it happens
with one and not the other.

This problem doesn't occur with OSX Mail (but I really want to make use of
the calender and project centre so i'm keen to get this problem sorted)

And can anyone enlighten me why under the trial version of Entourage 2004 I
cannot choose to NOT leave a copy of my messages on the server? Ie there is
a tick next to the option and it is greyed out so I cannot change it?

Cheers

phil

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

And can anyone enlighten me why under the trial version of Entourage 2004 I
cannot choose to NOT leave a copy of my messages on the server? Ie there is
a tick next to the option and it is greyed out so I cannot change it?

That's so that people who decide not to buy Office can still get their mail
no matter what email client they later end up in. By imposing leaving mail
on the server MS quite wisely are protecting themselves from people accusing
them of harm later on.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

 

[Michael]

Hi Joe,

I'm sorry you've been having trouble with this account. Could you provide
the name of the service this is happening with? This will help in trying to
reproduce the problem. Also, I'll be glad to work with you directly in
tracking down what is going on.

Feel free to contact me directly at: (e-mail address removed)

Sorry about the problem,
Michael

 

[phil maher]

Hi Michael

I seem to be having the same problems as Joe and would be interetsed in any
solutions - can you keep me in the loop of any developments please

Cheers

Phil

 

[Michael Emfinger]

Absolutely Phil. I'll be glad to work on this issue with you as well.
Please email me with as much detail as you can.

Michael

 

[Johannes Doe (rafcboy)]

Absolutely Phil. I'll be glad to work on this issue with you as well.
Please email me with as much detail as you can.

Hi Michael,
I have finally found the time to use tcpflow to troubleshoot my problem as
you suggested. Since I don't want to pollute these newsgroups with extensive
logging output, here is the website for you to look at:

http://awayand.freeshell.org/pop3bug.html

The problem is occurring with a POP3 account using the freemail.web.de
service. Looks like a provider problem, I have forwarded the message to them
as well.

Let me know what you think!

Joe

 

[Johannes Doe (rafcboy)]

Hi Michael,
I have finally found the time to use tcpflow to troubleshoot my problem.
Since I don't want to pollute these newsgroups with extensive logging
output, here is the website for you to look at:

http://awayand.freeshell.org/pop3bug.html

Let me know what you think!
Joe

 

[Johannes Doe (rafcboy)]

Hi Michael,
I have finally found the time to use tcpflow to troubleshoot my problem.
Since I don't want to pollute these newsgroups with extensive logging
output, here is the website for you to look at:

Aw hell, I didn't mean to send this *again*. Apologies.