Possible issue when migrating Office to a new system?

[peter.beal]

About a week ago, my office received two brand new Quad-core MacPros.
Gorgeous pieces of machinery. I, being one of the only ones in our
office with any sort of professional Mac IT background (mainly just
setting up new machines for users and transferring their old files to
their new computer through a backup server) my boss allowed me to set
up her new computer. This is when the fun began.

I successfully partitioned and reinstalled Tiger onto the computer,
and installed all the necessary software. When it came time to
transfer the files, I used Apple's Migration Assistant, and copied
over using FireWire.

Everything was running and booting normally, as I had to reboot a few
times to allow for gradual software updates. I continued to set it up
in my boss' office and hook everything up. Still, no problems.

I come in to work the next day to be informed that my boss' main
partition has failed, and that we were being instructed by Apple's
support that:
1. This is a "common issue" when migrating Office onto a new system.
2. We must format the partition and reinstall Tiger.

Suffice to say that my boss was not happy with me.

Without going into much further detail, can anyone say for certain
that this was indeed a "Microsoft" problem? Was there any way we could
have successfully saved the data even though the partition had failed?

Thank you,
Peter

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Peter -

If anyone could say "for certain" we could then hammer the appropriate heads
to get the issue corrected

My personal opinion (FWIW) is that there isn't anything about Office that
should cause a partition to fail - especially in OS X. I certainly can't
*prove* it, but I'm convinced the problem is with Migration Assistant.
Sometimes it works fine, other times it's disastrous, others somewhere in
between.

I have the impression that Apple tries to lay it off on MS because Office
uses its own installer routine & the migration doesn't handle the transfer
particularly well. OTOH, Apple doesn't put a warming label on the process
telling you not to migrate Office, so they must not be completely convinced
that MS is the culprit.

Although the process is supposedly more "sophisticated" I've always been
leery of *copying* installed software from one drive to another. It seems to
be more problematic when migrating from PPC to Intel Macs, but I had a
similar issue when I migrated from my G4 to my G5. (I'm still not certain
whether the actual problem was with the migration or the Maxtor drive
initialization in the G5. I do know that when I ran Disk Utility & TechTool
Pro they both found "serious errors" that neither was able to resolve.
Reformat & reinstall resolved everything.)

Recovering the data *should* have been possible, though, but you would have
to start up from another drive. There are also a number of data recovery
programs that might have been useful, but I'm surprised Apple didn't have
you try the "Archive & Install" option first. That's supposed to preserve
the user data & I've found it to be quite reliable the few times I've needed
to use it. Again, however, I don't see where any typical program would
corrupt your content to an unusable state - I'm still leaning toward the
opinion expressed above. If Office were at fault the same sort of havoc
would be wreaked by *any* installation, not just a migration.

I'm afraid the question remains "Does Office not migrate very well, or does
Migration Assistant not have the where-with-all to migrate it effectively?".

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[William Smith]

I have the impression that Apple tries to lay it off on MS because Office
uses its own installer routine & the migration doesn't handle the transfer
particularly well. OTOH, Apple doesn't put a warming label on the process
telling you not to migrate Office, so they must not be completely convinced
that MS is the culprit.

Rather than -Apple- trying to lay it off on Microsoft, I would say
probably just that one technician is trying to lay it off on Microsoft.

The exasperating fact about technical support is that no one company
will support any situation where it is not completely in control of the
situation. Apple won't support Microsoft products on their systems,
Microsoft won't support Apple products on their systems and Company X
won't support Company Y's software on its systems. That often puts the
end user in between two vendors who are pointing blame at each other and
having to fend for himself.

Troubleshooting over the phone without any means of even -seeing- the
problem is can be very frustrating for technicians as well. They're
often interpreting what the customer really means to say and may not be
getting all the necessary information because the customer doesn't want
to look foolish. Worse yet, they may be dealing with an irate customer.
A few months of end-user support can put a very thick skin on someone.

In this case, I believe the Apple technician was trying to take
advantage of the OP's limited experience and put the blame on Microsoft
because he knows it can't be refuted. Well, yes, maybe it -is-
Microsoft's fault that this happened but who from Microsoft is present
during the telephone conversation to defend its products? Is the
end-user -really- going to call Microsoft and expect them to help? No.
Case closed as far as the technician is concerned. His numbers still
look good.

From experience I know that nothing in the Microsoft package should be
able to cause Mac OS X to fail. It places absolutely nothing in the root
level Library and System folders where it would need to go to impact the
system. It only places software in the root level Applications folder
(or wherever the OP had it installed) and fonts and preference files in
the user's folder and some temporary data in the /tmp folder. These are
benign locations.

When calling tech support, if you don't feel you're getting a
satisfactory answer the first time then call again. Always write down
the name of the person helping you (it's not rude to want to call
somebody by his name) and refer to the earlier conversation only after
the next technician has tried to help you. Complain in writing about
ridiculous answers like this.

My two cents.

As far as saving the data, I would invest in DiskWarrior
<http://www.alsoft.com/> and/or DataRescue
<http://www.prosofteng.com/products/data_rescue_info.php>. Good tools to
have in any self-help troubleshooting aresenal.

bill

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Hi Peter,

I've used Migration Assistant more times than I care to count. It migrates
most stuff and I've never had a problem with office with regard to Migration
Assistant.

There's a "trick" of sorts that I use. I make a disc image of the source
(the old computer) and put that onto the new volume before running Migration
Assistant. It seems to me that more stuff comes over without having to
re-license or re-install when I use this method.

-Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

About a week ago, my office received two brand new Quad-core MacPros.
Gorgeous pieces of machinery. I, being one of the only ones in our
office with any sort of professional Mac IT background (mainly just
setting up new machines for users and transferring their old files to
their new computer through a backup server) my boss allowed me to set
up her new computer. This is when the fun began.

I successfully partitioned and reinstalled Tiger onto the computer,
and installed all the necessary software. When it came time to
transfer the files, I used Apple's Migration Assistant, and copied
over using FireWire.

Everything was running and booting normally, as I had to reboot a few
times to allow for gradual software updates. I continued to set it up
in my boss' office and hook everything up. Still, no problems.

I come in to work the next day to be informed that my boss' main
partition has failed, and that we were being instructed by Apple's
support that:
1. This is a "common issue" when migrating Office onto a new system.
2. We must format the partition and reinstall Tiger.

Suffice to say that my boss was not happy with me.

Without going into much further detail, can anyone say for certain
that this was indeed a "Microsoft" problem? Was there any way we could
have successfully saved the data even though the partition had failed?

Thank you,
Peter

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

 

[John McGhie [MVP Word, Word Mac]]

Hi Peter:

Let me see if I have this right.... 1) Apple made the Machine, 2) Apple
made the Operating System, 3) Apple formatted the disk, 4) Apple made the
migration program, and 5) Because it doesn't work it's now *Microsoft's*
fault?

Yeah, you can quite see how that would occur, can't you? This is "Excuse
Number 1". I don't have a lot of patience with companies that try this
stuff. I suspect the Apple "Tech" you spoke to is a trained monkey who
happens to be a bit of an Apple religious fanboy. When he has completed his
training, he "may" understand that you cannot blame Microsoft for things
until the rest of the system is otherwise functioning

Tell your Boss "Sorry, this is a case of infant mortality. It's quite
common in the modern computer industry, where nothing is ever tested until
it gets to the user."

What has happened is that the hard drives in the machine are probably
supplied to Apple with the OS Image already in place, striped onto the drive
at very high speed before the drive is assembled. After it had run for a
few hours, warmed up, then cooled down, the mechanical tolerances altered
slightly and in your case, you got unlucky. The information moved ever so
slightly with respect to the disk read-head, and it now can't read the disk
data properly.

The trained monkey is partly correct: you *will* have to reformat that disk.
I would also put it through a heat-soak test before returning it to service,
just to make sure it survives this time. To heat-soak it, place the
computer in an un-airconditioned room and work it hard (Rip twenty or 30
music CDs to iTunes...). Let it get nice and hot and keep it that way for
at least an hour. Then power it down and let it cool down overnight as cold
as you can get it (without putting it in the freezer!!). Then warm it up
again (you should have ripped most of your music collection by now...) and
make sure it doesn't fail. If it's still with you and there are no hard
disk errors in the system logs, you can give it back to your boss.

If there are hard disk errors (or you have not finished your whole music
collection) then further testing may be necessary

The problem here is that the hard disk has failed, and Microsoft Office had
nothing to do with it

When you DO come to rebuild her system, the reformat of the drive that you
will do will automatically wipe the Microsoft Office Test Drive which Apple
would have preloaded on the system. That's good, because otherwise we were
going to have to tell you to remove the test drive before trying to run the
Migration from her old machine. If you don't, the presence of the Test
Drive prevents the imported copy of Microsoft Office from correctly creating
its preferences, as a result of which, Microsoft Office will crash on
startup each time.

Hope this helps

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[William Smith]

To heat-soak it, place the
computer in an un-airconditioned room and work it hard (Rip twenty or 30
music CDs to iTunes...). Let it get nice and hot and keep it that way for
at least an hour. Then power it down and let it cool down overnight as cold
as you can get it (without putting it in the freezer!!). Then warm it up
again (you should have ripped most of your music collection by now...)

John,

Is 20-30 CDs most of your music collection? Good gawd, man, are you
still on vinyl!? Have you at least moved to cassette tapes yet? <g, d &
r>

bill

 

[John McGhie [MVP Word, Word Mac]]

Hi Bill:

Sadly, Yes

I used to be a radio announcer. By the time I finished that gig, I had a
freebee of everything the record companies had put out since YOU were young
( ).

And it was all on vinyl. Sadly, the kinds of people you work with in the
broadcasting industry tend to "party hard" and they associate with a lot of
people who are not necessarily "model citizens".

Sadly, one of these low-lifes backed up a truck one night whilst I was
otherwise distracted in the pursuit of the honour of some nubile young lady
(remember those days??).

And after a few years of having to pretend I liked the most woeful rubbish
on air, my music taste was entirely ruined. I just haven't really bothered
with music since... Sad, isn't it...

So yeah, 20 or 30 CDs just about DOES describe my music collection these
days.

I had thought of advising the customer to rip a few DVDs just to warm the
thing up a bit, but I was not sure he had the software to do that

Cheers

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Oguchi]

Definitely Micrososft Office problem. I migrated to a new hard disk using
Acronis Easy Migration. After the procedure, every other program, including
Internet Explore 7 workd fine. Except for the Office 2007 suite.
1) Outlook 2007 icon disappeared. Running it from Programs got as far as
starting program and going down one more level deeper. Anything else gave the
error of "Not supported"
2) Word was kinder: it would start the Installer when you to open it;
sputter a bit, give an error message, but would nevertheless open for you and
allow you to use it.
3) Using the Control panel to get to Office and try to repair failed: it
could not run setup.
4) Running setup so you can repair from original disk also failed--I have
never seen setup fail to run from the origianl disk
5) Uninstall from Control Panel panel also failed.
Just to be sure, i used the utility software from the new disk to do my
migration over again. The same problem occurred with Office.
I have to conclude it is an OFFICE problem.
Running Office Diagnostics failed to reveal any problem at all in all the
parameters.

I am running WIN XP Professional

_____________________________________________

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Oguchi:

{Sigh} You cannot "Migrate" most Windows programs or Microsoft Office on
the Mac.

You must "install" it on the target machine, then "migrate" the data.

If you don't "install" then apply the current updates, you are right, it
won't work and you will waste weeks trying to fix it

Pop your Office CD in and run a "Detect and Repair". It will prompt you
through from there (you will need your Licence Key).

Cheers

Definitely Micrososft Office problem. I migrated to a new hard disk using
Acronis Easy Migration. After the procedure, every other program, including
Internet Explore 7 workd fine. Except for the Office 2007 suite.
1) Outlook 2007 icon disappeared. Running it from Programs got as far as
starting program and going down one more level deeper. Anything else gave the
error of "Not supported"
2) Word was kinder: it would start the Installer when you to open it;
sputter a bit, give an error message, but would nevertheless open for you and
allow you to use it.
3) Using the Control panel to get to Office and try to repair failed: it
could not run setup.
4) Running setup so you can repair from original disk also failed--I have
never seen setup fail to run from the origianl disk
5) Uninstall from Control Panel panel also failed.
Just to be sure, i used the utility software from the new disk to do my
migration over again. The same problem occurred with Office.
I have to conclude it is an OFFICE problem.
Running Office Diagnostics failed to reveal any problem at all in all the
parameters.

I am running WIN XP Professional

_____________________________________________

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Oguchi]

Hi, John
(double sigh)
I am not running MAC.
As indicated, I am running XP (= PC)
Do, take the time to go through my post: I really need help (or, maybe,
Microsoft does). I thought I laid out my case well. Alas...sigh.

Oguchi

 

[JE McGimpsey]

I am not running MAC.
As indicated, I am running XP (= PC)
Do, take the time to go through my post: I really need help (or, maybe,
Microsoft does). I thought I laid out my case well. Alas...sigh.

Well, you laid it out in a Macintosh Office newsgroup (that's what the
..mac. is for in microsoft.public.mac.office), and you can run XP on a
Mac (i.e., <>PC), so you may be able to understand why one might think
you might possibly be running a Mac (not MAC)...

However, John's comment wasn't Mac specific: one often experiences
problems trying to "migrate" Windows apps. Install them instead...

 

[CyberTaz]

<snip>

Do, take the time to go through my post

<snip>

Do, take the time to post in the proper newsgroup.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/FlyoutOverview.mspx

Good Luck |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[John McGhie]

The answer I gave you was for Windows XP and Office 2003.

Do, please, take the time to read my response: that's your answer, and you
will get the same answer from any other group!

Let me write it slower... YOU CAN NOT MIGRATE WINDOWS OFFICE 2003. IT
WON'T WORK. It screws up the registry

Run a Detect and Repair like I told you: put your CD in, then run Detect and
Repair from the Help menu of any Office 2003 application.

That will fix it. It may run for up to 45 minutes, depending on how much
damage has been done. But it will fix it. After which, it will want to run
Office Update to re-apply the patches. Let it do that.

Hi, John
(double sigh)
I am not running MAC.
As indicated, I am running XP (= PC)
Do, take the time to go through my post: I really need help (or, maybe,
Microsoft does). I thought I laid out my case well. Alas...sigh.

Oguchi

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]