Problems copying Web pages

J

Jack

My research often requires me to copy information out of Web pages.
Used to work just fine using Safari under Panther with Word X for Mac
on a G4. But after upgrading to Tiger and Word 2004 on my brand new
17" Intel iMac with upgraded processor/memory, almost every time I try
to copy a Web page with Safari and paste it into a Word 2004 document,
I get the spinning beach ball that never quits. That, of
course, ,means I eventually have to Force Quit out of Word and loses
all the research since the last Save.

I've called Microsoft Tech support several times regarding this, and
when the last expert recreated the problem using an Intel Mac he said
it we had discovered a new bug in Word 2004.

I have since learned how to Paste Special and choose Unformatted Text.
But even that occaisionally beach balls my Word.

I could really use some help with this since my freelance writing
depends on Web research.
 
J

John McGhie

Hey Jack:

If the "expert" thought you had uncovered a new bug, then I would like to
know what he was "expert" in: It certainly wasn't Mac Word :)

We have known about that one for a couple of years. Part of the problem is
that Word 2004 can actually make a "better" copy than Word X could. It is
seeing more of the information coming from the clipboard, and it doesn't
know what to do with some of it.

And part of the problem is the complexity involved in the average web page
these days. By the time you have the three or four components of the web
page, 20-odd graphic elements, two or three style-sheets and literally the
same number of items from anything up to 20 different advertising servers
and their dozens of popups, the computing problem domain is growing
exponentially. There are a very large number of states changing, and
changing very rapidly.

This is not the kind of thing a word-processor does for a living. Yeah,
you're right, it shouldn't beach-ball. But don't expect it to do this stuff
"well". To use a simplistic example, it's like taking a wall from an
aluminium shed and trying to nail it into place in a brick house. Radically
different kind of structure in each, they will never fit well together, and
often will fall down :)

You are on the right track with your paste as unformatted text. The
formatting from a web page is useless to you anyway: the documents have
radically different formats, better to discard it and start again.

Beachballing when you paste in plain text is a different problem. That
shows that the internal structure of your Word document is broken, causing
Word to hang when it tries to read it.

The only thing I can recommend there is to turn your non-printing characters
on while editing, so you can see what you are doing and don't break the
document. The paragraph mark is one of the most complex structures in a
Word document: it contains all of the formatting for the paragraph. As many
as 1200 different bits of information.

Learn to select and insert precisely, so that you are not inserting stuff
into the middle of other objects, or chopping objects out of the middle of
things. The more non-printing characters you turn on, the more you can see,
and the fewer manglings you will make :)

Saving out of Safari into TextEdit is goodness. TextEdit discards all the
complex structures on the way in. If you then copy from TextEdit to Word,
most of the complex stuff like Java and form fields gets left behind before
it can get Word into trouble.

And don't forget the keyboard! Typing your own text is goodness. As a
freelance writer, you know that "fair use" allows you to copy only about 250
Words :) After that, you have to write your own version anyway, or you get
to sit in a cell where Word crashes will be the least of your worries :)

Cheers


My research often requires me to copy information out of Web pages.
Used to work just fine using Safari under Panther with Word X for Mac
on a G4. But after upgrading to Tiger and Word 2004 on my brand new
17" Intel iMac with upgraded processor/memory, almost every time I try
to copy a Web page with Safari and paste it into a Word 2004 document,
I get the spinning beach ball that never quits. That, of
course, ,means I eventually have to Force Quit out of Word and loses
all the research since the last Save.

I've called Microsoft Tech support several times regarding this, and
when the last expert recreated the problem using an Intel Mac he said
it we had discovered a new bug in Word 2004.

I have since learned how to Paste Special and choose Unformatted Text.
But even that occaisionally beach balls my Word.

I could really use some help with this since my freelance writing
depends on Web research.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
J

Jack

My research often requires me to copy information out of Web pages.
Used to work just fine using Safari under Panther with Word X for Mac
on a G4. But after upgrading to Tiger and Word 2004 on my brand new
17" Intel iMac with upgraded processor/memory, almost every time I try
to copy a Web page with Safari and paste it into a Word 2004 document,
I get the spinning beach ball that never quits. That, of
course, ,means I eventually have to Force Quit out of Word and loses
all the research since the last Save.

I've called Microsoft Tech support several times regarding this, and
when the last expert recreated the problem using an Intel Mac he said
it we had discovered a new bug in Word 2004.

I have since learned how to Paste Special and choose Unformatted Text.
But even that occaisionally beach balls my Word.

I could really use some help with this since my freelance writing
depends on Web research.

John,

Thank you for that very informative response. Sure wish the tech
support folks at Microsoft had known this.

Another problem I am constantly running into deals with the Document
Map of Word, both in Word X and Word 2004. It is a very helpful
feature for extensive research projects, letting me divide my data
into easily accesible headings.

However, it tends to scramble the identification of those headings.
Often when opeing a complex document I wil l see a brief window appear
"Formattting Document". Then instead of displaying just the designated
headings, the Navigation Pane in Word 2004 fills itself with what
seems to be random lines masquerading as headings.

I have learned to have my fingers poised over Command/Period when that
window appears and (if I m fast enough) can prevent that scrambline.
Again, many hours (yes, I mean "hours") on the phone with MS tech
support has produced no solution. We just kept resetting the Normal,
under the impression that it had become corrupted, but the problem
just keeps repeating.

Do you have a magic bullet for this?
 
C

CyberTaz

Jack said:
John,

Thank you for that very informative response. Sure wish the tech
support folks at Microsoft had known this.

Another problem I am constantly running into deals with the Document
Map of Word, both in Word X and Word 2004. It is a very helpful
feature for extensive research projects, letting me divide my data
into easily accesible headings.

However, it tends to scramble the identification of those headings.
Often when opeing a complex document I wil l see a brief window appear
"Formattting Document". Then instead of displaying just the designated
headings, the Navigation Pane in Word 2004 fills itself with what
seems to be random lines masquerading as headings.

I have learned to have my fingers poised over Command/Period when that
window appears and (if I m fast enough) can prevent that scrambline.
Again, many hours (yes, I mean "hours") on the phone with MS tech
support has produced no solution. We just kept resetting the Normal,
under the impression that it had become corrupted, but the problem
just keeps repeating.

Do you have a magic bullet for this?
Hi Jack -

I would imagine Mr. McGhie will be glad to give you the particulars, but the
net net is that Document Map has been broken since its inception. the only
thing "new" about the bug is each day that dawns without a fix - maybe 2008
will have a working version.

In the meantime, Outline View provides similar functionality - albeit
without the convenience.
 
E

Elliott Roper

Another problem I am constantly running into deals with the Document
Map of Word, both in Word X and Word 2004. It is a very helpful
feature for extensive research projects, letting me divide my data
into easily accesible headings.

However, it tends to scramble the identification of those headings.
Often when opeing a complex document I wil l see a brief window appear
"Formattting Document". Then instead of displaying just the designated
headings, the Navigation Pane in Word 2004 fills itself with what
seems to be random lines masquerading as headings.

I have learned to have my fingers poised over Command/Period when that
window appears and (if I m fast enough) can prevent that scrambline.
Again, many hours (yes, I mean "hours") on the phone with MS tech
support has produced no solution. We just kept resetting the Normal,
under the impression that it had become corrupted, but the problem
just keeps repeating.

Do you have a magic bullet for this?

Yes. Don't use Document Map. It is the spawn of the devil.

Use the outline facility. It is better and faster and *far* more
reliable.
 
J

Jack

Yes. Don't use Document Map. It is the spawn of the devil.

Use the outline facility. It is better and faster and *far* more
reliable.

Thank you very much for your responses. How and Why is it that
Microsoft's own tech support folk not know about this? Again, I wasted
literally hours on the phone with them trying to tame this feature
with no success.

Elliot Roper recommended using Outline View saying it "provides
similar functionality - albeit without the convenience". But in my
Word 2004, selecting that does not open the Navigation Pane (Document
Map) column containing the headings.

Am I missing something? What good is the Document Map feature if you
cannot move through your headings?

Then again, now that I have learned the Command/Period trick, am I
risking losing my data if I try to open with the Navigation Pane using
a keyboard shortcut? It's a "Pane" but it eventually gives me the
display I find so useful.

Sure hope they fix this and many other problems in Word 2008.
 
E

Elliott Roper

Jack said:
Elliot Roper recommended using Outline View saying it "provides
similar functionality - albeit without the convenience". But in my
Word 2004, selecting that does not open the Navigation Pane (Document
Map) column containing the headings.
Use the toolbar thing along the top to show or hide the level of
heading you are interested in seeing. You do need to be using the
heading styles to do this easily. Once you arrive at the right part of
the doc, open up a few more levels.
Am I missing something? What good is the Document Map feature if you
cannot move through your headings?
Then again, now that I have learned the Command/Period trick, am I
risking losing my data if I try to open with the Navigation Pane using
a keyboard shortcut? It's a "Pane" but it eventually gives me the
display I find so useful.
Are you a betting man? Document Map really is an unstable mess.
Sure hope they fix this and many other problems in Word 2008.
Yep. I sure hope they do too.
 
C

CyberTaz

Thank you very much for your responses. How and Why is it that
Microsoft's own tech support folk not know about this? Again, I wasted
literally hours on the phone with them trying to tame this feature
with no success.

Elliot Roper recommended using Outline View saying it "provides
similar functionality - albeit without the convenience".

That was me - don't blame Elliott:) He's the one who wrote the "spawn of
the devil" indictment... Although this is one subject on which he and I
fully agree.

As for the tech support - well, my guess is that you were talking with
someone in a middle-eastern country who just started on the phones within
the last month or so & wouldn't know what the Document Map is without
looking it up in the database... Let alone having any real-world experience
with how it does/doesn't work:)
But in my Word 2004, selecting that does not open the Navigation Pane
(Document Map) column containing the headings.

No, it doesn't, it switches you to Outline View where you can collapse or
expand the outline of your document (based on Heading Levels/Styles) to
whatever level you wish. Click in or select any passage, switch back to
Normal or Page Layout view & that's where you'll be... With no loss of
horizontal real estate to the Navigation Pane. Use Command+Option+O to
switch to Outline View, Command+Option+N to go back to Normal or
Command+Option+P for Page Layout. See Word Help on Outline View & on
shortcuts for more.
Am I missing something? What good is the Document Map feature if you
cannot move through your headings?

It takes a little getting used to, but Outline View is even more versatile
and far more stable.
Then again, now that I have learned the Command/Period trick, am I
risking losing my data if I try to open with the Navigation Pane using
a keyboard shortcut? It's a "Pane" but it eventually gives me the
display I find so useful.

Yes - the scrambling you've already witnessed is indicative of the potential
for document corruption. (Backups are a good thing.)
Sure hope they fix this and many other problems in Word 2008.
<snip>

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Jack:

Since the others will wax lyrical about the inequities of Document Map, I
don't need to.

The magic bullet is: "If you assign your headings using the built-in
Heading styles, Document Map will behave itself.

If you do not use the built-in Heading styles, Document Map will do exactly
as you describe, turn your document into word-salad by attempting to "guess"
which lines are heading paragraphs.

Cheers


John,

Thank you for that very informative response. Sure wish the tech
support folks at Microsoft had known this.

Another problem I am constantly running into deals with the Document
Map of Word, both in Word X and Word 2004. It is a very helpful
feature for extensive research projects, letting me divide my data
into easily accesible headings.

However, it tends to scramble the identification of those headings.
Often when opeing a complex document I wil l see a brief window appear
"Formattting Document". Then instead of displaying just the designated
headings, the Navigation Pane in Word 2004 fills itself with what
seems to be random lines masquerading as headings.

I have learned to have my fingers poised over Command/Period when that
window appears and (if I m fast enough) can prevent that scrambline.
Again, many hours (yes, I mean "hours") on the phone with MS tech
support has produced no solution. We just kept resetting the Normal,
under the impression that it had become corrupted, but the problem
just keeps repeating.

Do you have a magic bullet for this?

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Jack:

Consider this: If you want a career, you have to start at the bottom. If
you want a career in computing, you either go to University and don't even
bother applying to Microsoft until you have a Masters degree from a real
university and some industry experience :)

Or: You can apply to Microsoft with simply a Bachelor of Arts, get a job,
and work your way up from there, studying at night school. If you do that,
you will indeed start at the bottom: the telephone help desk :)

On the Help Desk, you have a bunch of bright young things who are trying to
learn as much as they can on their way to hopefully getting a "real job".
And they don't USE Word. They think they do, of course. Every office
worker thinks they use Microsoft Word.

Maybe they do: for 20-page documents that look like ransom demands.

On the other hand, if you wander in here, the first thing you will notice is
the common sight of heads with grey hair (or no hair at all...)

In here, you will be talking to people who have risen to the peak of their
careers in their industry. They do "this" for a living (publishing
documents with Microsoft Word). Most of us have been doing it for 30 years
or more.

I typically handle documents in the 1,000 to 5,000-page range. Elliott is a
publishing specialist. CyberTas is a beach bum.... (No, he's not: he's a
another old grey beard...)

In here you are talking directly to industry professionals who do what you
do for a living and we've each been doing it for decades. There's an order
of magnitude of difference in the knowledge and experience in here.

The guys on the Help desk know the simplistic stuff about a huge range of
products. The guys and girls in here know one product (usually, ONLY one
product) but in exacting detail almost down to the bit level, an with a
career's worth of experience using this product professionally ...

Cheers

Thank you very much for your responses. How and Why is it that
Microsoft's own tech support folk not know about this? Again, I wasted
literally hours on the phone with them trying to tame this feature
with no success.

Elliot Roper recommended using Outline View saying it "provides
similar functionality - albeit without the convenience". But in my
Word 2004, selecting that does not open the Navigation Pane (Document
Map) column containing the headings.

Am I missing something? What good is the Document Map feature if you
cannot move through your headings?

Then again, now that I have learned the Command/Period trick, am I
risking losing my data if I try to open with the Navigation Pane using
a keyboard shortcut? It's a "Pane" but it eventually gives me the
display I find so useful.

Sure hope they fix this and many other problems in Word 2008.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
J

Jack

You don't need to post this if not appropriate for the whole group,
but I wanted to say once again--THANK YOU for helping me with that
problem of copying info out of a Web page. You have really saved my
bacon!

Hi Jack:

Consider this: If you want a career, you have to start at the bottom. If
you want a career in computing, you either go to University and don't even
bother applying to Microsoft until you have a Masters degree from a real
university and some industry experience :)

Or: You can apply to Microsoft with simply a Bachelor of Arts, get a job,
and work your way up from there, studying at night school. If you do that,
you will indeed start at the bottom: the telephone help desk :)

On the Help Desk, you have a bunch of bright young things who are trying to
learn as much as they can on their way to hopefully getting a "real job".
And they don't USE Word. They think they do, of course. Every office
worker thinks they use Microsoft Word.

Maybe they do: for 20-page documents that look like ransom demands.

On the other hand, if you wander in here, the first thing you will noticeis
the common sight of heads with grey hair (or no hair at all...)

In here, you will be talking to people who have risen to the peak of their
careers in their industry. They do "this" for a living (publishing
documents with Microsoft Word). Most of us have been doing it for 30 years
or more.

I typically handle documents in the 1,000 to 5,000-page range. Elliott is a
publishing specialist. CyberTas is a beach bum.... (No, he's not: he's a
another old grey beard...)

In here you are talking directly to industry professionals who do what you
do for a living and we've each been doing it for decades. There's an order
of magnitude of difference in the knowledge and experience in here.

The guys on the Help desk know the simplistic stuff about a huge range of
products. The guys and girls in here know one product (usually, ONLY one
product) but in exacting detail almost down to the bit level, an with a
career's worth of experience using this product professionally ...

Cheers

 
J

John McGhie

Hi Jack:

Well, that was our pleasure :) We are doubly grateful to YOU for bothering
to say "thanks".

That's why we do this...

Allow me to encourage you to stick around and contribute your bit to this
community: we have stuff to learn from you too, you know!

Cheers


You don't need to post this if not appropriate for the whole group,
but I wanted to say once again--THANK YOU for helping me with that
problem of copying info out of a Web page. You have really saved my
bacon!

Hi Jack:

Consider this: If you want a career, you have to start at the bottom. If
you want a career in computing, you either go to University and don't even
bother applying to Microsoft until you have a Masters degree from a real
university and some industry experience :)

Or: You can apply to Microsoft with simply a Bachelor of Arts, get a job,
and work your way up from there, studying at night school. If you do that,
you will indeed start at the bottom: the telephone help desk :)

On the Help Desk, you have a bunch of bright young things who are trying to
learn as much as they can on their way to hopefully getting a "real job".
And they don't USE Word. They think they do, of course. Every office
worker thinks they use Microsoft Word.

Maybe they do: for 20-page documents that look like ransom demands.

On the other hand, if you wander in here, the first thing you will notice is
the common sight of heads with grey hair (or no hair at all...)

In here, you will be talking to people who have risen to the peak of their
careers in their industry. They do "this" for a living (publishing
documents with Microsoft Word). Most of us have been doing it for 30 years
or more.

I typically handle documents in the 1,000 to 5,000-page range. Elliott is a
publishing specialist. CyberTas is a beach bum.... (No, he's not: he's a
another old grey beard...)

In here you are talking directly to industry professionals who do what you
do for a living and we've each been doing it for decades. There's an order
of magnitude of difference in the knowledge and experience in here.

The guys on the Help desk know the simplistic stuff about a huge range of
products. The guys and girls in here know one product (usually, ONLY one
product) but in exacting detail almost down to the bit level, an with a
career's worth of experience using this product professionally ...

Cheers

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 

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