Project clculates incorrect and inconsistent finish dates

[kinetix]

On ASAP tasks with F-S pred and no hard constraints, project i
calculating the finish dates wrong sometimes going too long an
othertimes acting like it was a S-S relationship. Any ideas

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi kinetix,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup

Very unlikely to be getting the arithmetic wrong. We need to know what you are doing, what result you get and what you expected to see. Then we might be able to interpret what is happening.

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at this web address: http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for my free Project Tutorials




On ASAP tasks with F-S pred and no hard constraints, project is
calculating the finish dates wrong sometimes going too long and
othertimes acting like it was a S-S relationship. Any ideas?

 

[kinetix]

Sorry for the redundant posts, my computer indicated that it wasn'
posting. Please ignore this one and reply to the other. thank

 

[kinetix]

Hi Glen, I haven't been able to find why the program insists o
stretching the finish date. In the the 5 tasks I've pasted below, th
first three tasks are concurrent and have ASAP FS relationships with th
same single predecessor. The calendar is 4d, 10hr/d so 11/20 is
no-work day. 3d starting 11/16 should finish 11/19. However, if I se
the constraint to must start on 11/16, it does finish 11/19 and chang
the constraint back to ASAP it goes back to 11/23 finish. Puzzling??

Here are the tasks (sorry they run together
Building 710 Provide/Install Piping wiring & Globa
Controller 11/16/09 3 d 11/23/0
Building 725 Provide/Install Piping wiring & Globa
Controller 11/16/09 3 d 11/23/0
Building 791 Provide/Install Piping wiring & Globa
Controller 11/16/09 3 d 11/23/0
Tie-in power/communication Group 1 (Non-Nuke) 11/23/09 1 d 11/24/0
Global Controller programming & checkout Group 1 (Non-Nuke) 11/24/09
d 11/25/0

 

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Hi,

The task is influenced by a link, either to the task itqself or to its
outline parent (summary task)

--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
+32 495 300 620
For availability check:
http://users.online.be/prom-ade/Calendar.pdf

 

[Mike Glen]

Not puzzling, kinetix, just that I suspect you have a mis-match with times. First, go to Tools/Options/View tab and at the top select a Date format so that it includes times. Now check your Start dates to ensure they start at the beginning of the day - it defaults to 0800 - but as you didn't say what changes you made for a 10 hour day or where you changed them I can't be exact. See that the Finish times are all 19:00 or at whatever end time you've set for the working day. If they're are not correct, re-set your calendar via Tools/Change Working Time (it is better to make a copy of the standard calendar to keep the original for later use). Now make sure you have set your times in Tools/Options/Calendar tab to match. Finally check that Project/Project Information uses the calendar you've edited and that it shows a start time the same as you've just set for the start of the day (if not just type in the date and time you want).

You might like to see FAQ Item: 5. Default Working Hours. FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at this web address: http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm.

Incidentally, the only date you should be typing in is the Project Start Date. Then enter the tasks names and durations. Then enter the precedence links (logic links) to let Project do what you've bought it for: to drive the start and finish dates and calculate the schedule for you. Use Constraints very sparingly as each one reduces the flexibility you have to create a workable schedule.

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for my free Project Tutorials

Hi Glen, I haven't been able to find why the program insists on
stretching the finish date. In the the 5 tasks I've pasted below, the
first three tasks are concurrent and have ASAP FS relationships with the
same single predecessor. The calendar is 4d, 10hr/d so 11/20 is a
no-work day. 3d starting 11/16 should finish 11/19. However, if I set
the constraint to must start on 11/16, it does finish 11/19 and change
the constraint back to ASAP it goes back to 11/23 finish. Puzzling???

Here are the tasks (sorry they run together)
Building 710 Provide/Install Piping wiring & Global
Controller 11/16/09 3 d 11/23/09
Building 725 Provide/Install Piping wiring & Global
Controller 11/16/09 3 d 11/23/09
Building 791 Provide/Install Piping wiring & Global
Controller 11/16/09 3 d 11/23/09
Tie-in power/communication Group 1 (Non-Nuke) 11/23/09 1 d 11/24/09
Global Controller programming & checkout Group 1 (Non-Nuke) 11/24/09 1
d 11/25/09

 

[kinetix]

Mike, thanks, we're on the right track. When I set the date format t
show time, the problem tasks show a 5:00 pm start time and in fact man
tasks have odd start times now that I see them. I've gone through al
the settings you outlined and set all to "normal" daytime work times
but the tasks still have odd times. Are they just leftover and if so i
there a way to reset

 

[Mike Glen]

You're welcome, kinetix. Glad you're getting there!

Project generally does not change tasks already entered - if it did, such changes could cause havoc with past planning. I only know of one way to overcome this and force Project to re-calculate with the new settings and that is to re-enter the Durations, It shouldn't take too long to just run down the list.

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Mike, thanks, we're on the right track. When I set the date format to
show time, the problem tasks show a 5:00 pm start time and in fact many
tasks have odd start times now that I see them. I've gone through all
the settings you outlined and set all to "normal" daytime work times,
but the tasks still have odd times. Are they just leftover and if so is
there a way to reset?

 

[kinetix]

Mike,

I'm still getting tasks that show a 5:00pm start in spite of sync'ng
calendars, etc., and checking all predecessors for impact.

I'm wondering if the calendars are behind this problem. I am using
three different calendars. Design is on a Standard calendar M-F, 5 d/w.
Almost all construction tasks (which makes up the bulk of the schedule
going forward) are on a 4 d/w (Mon-Thur 4/10's) calendar. There are a
few tasks that have to be done on weekends (Fri-Sun) and they are set to
a specific Fri-Sun calendar. I've also set all summary tasks to the
standard calendar so that the durations make sense. I've tried setting
the project calendar to either 4/10 or Standard and it doesn't seem to
matter on this issue (any feelings on where I should set this?).

I have read that project doesn't like multiple calendars, but I have to
use them to properly schedule work.

Doug

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi Doug,

If the task is scheduled on the 4/10 calendar, then 5pm may be correct. Have you any resources assigned? It's going to be difficult to troubleshoot at this distance - could you zip up your project and sent it to me? I can't guarantee anything, but I might be able to find something.

Mike Glen
Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for my free Project Tutorials



Mike,

I'm still getting tasks that show a 5:00pm start in spite of sync'ng
calendars, etc., and checking all predecessors for impact.

I'm wondering if the calendars are behind this problem. I am using
three different calendars. Design is on a Standard calendar M-F, 5 d/w.
Almost all construction tasks (which makes up the bulk of the schedule
going forward) are on a 4 d/w (Mon-Thur 4/10's) calendar. There are a
few tasks that have to be done on weekends (Fri-Sun) and they are set to
a specific Fri-Sun calendar. I've also set all summary tasks to the
standard calendar so that the durations make sense. I've tried setting
the project calendar to either 4/10 or Standard and it doesn't seem to
matter on this issue (any feelings on where I should set this?).

I have read that project doesn't like multiple calendars, but I have to
use them to properly schedule work.

Doug

 

[kinetix]

I will zip it up what email address? thanks Mik

 

[Mike Glen]

Just an update. Doug's inherited 3000ish tasks suffered primarily from working hours mis-match in the calendars etc. The 1700 start problem was caused by a milestone with a 0.8 day lag.

Mike Glen
Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for my free Project Tutorials


"Mike Glen" <mcglenAThotmail.com> wrote in message Hi Doug,

If the task is scheduled on the 4/10 calendar, then 5pm may be correct. Have you any resources assigned? It's going to be difficult to troubleshoot at this distance - could you zip up your project and sent it to me? I can't guarantee anything, but I might be able to find something.

Mike Glen
Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for my free Project Tutorials



Mike,

I'm still getting tasks that show a 5:00pm start in spite of sync'ng
calendars, etc., and checking all predecessors for impact.

I'm wondering if the calendars are behind this problem. I am using
three different calendars. Design is on a Standard calendar M-F, 5 d/w.
Almost all construction tasks (which makes up the bulk of the schedule
going forward) are on a 4 d/w (Mon-Thur 4/10's) calendar. There are a
few tasks that have to be done on weekends (Fri-Sun) and they are set to
a specific Fri-Sun calendar. I've also set all summary tasks to the
standard calendar so that the durations make sense. I've tried setting
the project calendar to either 4/10 or Standard and it doesn't seem to
matter on this issue (any feelings on where I should set this?).

I have read that project doesn't like multiple calendars, but I have to
use them to properly schedule work.

Doug

 

[kinetix]

With Mike's help, I've coordinated calendars and using a date forma
that shows time, I've starting fixing the problems. Still got a coupl
of gremlins in there that I may throw back to the group for feedback.
thank

 

[Mike Glen]

You're welcome, Doug

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for my free Project Tutorials



With Mike's help, I've coordinated calendars and using a date format
that shows time, I've starting fixing the problems. Still got a couple
of gremlins in there that I may throw back to the group for feedback.
thanks

 

[kinetix]

I'm still cleaning this schedule up and though I think I have all of th
calendar issues sync'd up, but there is still a problem with some task
(F-S ASAP) that don't reflect a proper finish time based on the duratio
entered. For instance, a start time of 7:00 am with a one day dur an
calendar set to 7:00am-5:00pm work day show a finish time of 3:00pm
This then impacts the successor task's start time, etc

I'm also noticing that the summary task of a group of subtasks wit
durations in even days is sometimes showing a duration with a fractio
(ie. the summary task for five one day F-S tasks will have a duration o
5.25d or some other fraction). I've double checked for hard constraint
and there are no weird fractional lags or leads

Any suggestions

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi Doug,

Check that the tasks in question or the resources assigned have the correct calendar assigned. Otherwise, I'll have another look if you wish.

Mike Glen
Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for my free Project Tutorials



I'm still cleaning this schedule up and though I think I have all of the
calendar issues sync'd up, but there is still a problem with some tasks
(F-S ASAP) that don't reflect a proper finish time based on the duration
entered. For instance, a start time of 7:00 am with a one day dur and
calendar set to 7:00am-5:00pm work day show a finish time of 3:00pm.
This then impacts the successor task's start time, etc.

I'm also noticing that the summary task of a group of subtasks with
durations in even days is sometimes showing a duration with a fraction
(ie. the summary task for five one day F-S tasks will have a duration of
5.25d or some other fraction). I've double checked for hard constraints
and there are no weird fractional lags or leads.

Any suggestions?

 

[kinetix]

I think that I may have figured out the problem. I've been using
different calendars and it seems that is causing my problems. So I hav
converted everything to one calendar and now going through the schedul
to see if that fixes it

 

[Steve House]

Another cuationary note ... Project does NOT really understand duration
units such as days or weeks. ALL durations are stored and calculated in
minutes to the nearest tenth. There is one single global conversion factor
that applies to all tasks that converts the units of duration you enter into
minutes, set by the Calendar Options page field "Hours per Day. Assume it
is the default setting of 8. Entering a task of "1 Day" duration will be
tranlated into 480.0 minutes.

Assume 4 different working time calendars, each with an hour for lunch. One
starts at 8 and ends at 5 (8-hours), another at 7 and ends at 6 (10 hours),
another at 6am and ends 7pm (12 hours), and finaly one that starts at 9am
and ends at 4pm (6 hours). Create 4 resources and make each of the above
calendars the base calendar for one of them. Enter 4 tasks, all with a
duration of "1 day" - they will all show starting at 8 and ending at 5, 480
working time minutes later. Assign each resource to one of the tasks. The
task that the 8 to 5 resource is on will start at 8 and end at 5, 480
working time minutes of that resource later. The task that the 7 to 6
resource is on will start at 7am and end at 4, 480 working time minutes
later. The task the 6 to 6 resource is on will start at 6 and end at 3, 480
working time minutes later. The task the 9 to 4 resource is on will start
at 9 and end the next day at 11am, 480 working time minutes later. Why
those numbers? A "day" is a time increment of 480 working time minutes,
regardless of the length of the work day of the resource doing the work.

 

[kinetix]

Thanks Steve. I'm going to have to digest that a bit to apply it.
haven't started in with resources yet, do I need to start there