Questions on Heading Styles in Word 2008

[Norm]

Some basic questions as I try to learn styles while reading Clive's
"Bend.....". Currently on page 99 of that helpful "book."

1. Why are there three (3) heading styles in my Normal template as shown
in the Formatting Toolbar but in Format>Styles window does not show any
heading styles in use?



I'm trying to Modify the Heading styles to be based on my Normal but I'm
having difficulty. First it says in the description of Heading 1 that it
is based on Normal + Font(Default) + Theme Headings. Well I thought I
had changed the Default font and I didn't know I needed Theme setting
and I know zero about Themes. So two questions on that:

2. Isn't the Default font what I've selected in my normal template? I
changed it there and save a new normal template as recommended.

3. And do I need to know about Themes? Haven't scratched the surface on
Themes. Can I turn-off Themes?

Thank you very much.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Until styles are applied to text IN THAT DOCUMENT, they will not appear in
the Format>Styles... Dialog if it is set to the "Available styles" list.

The Formatting Palette applies a hidden work-around (which is a settable
option in Word 2007) to make an exception for Heading 1, 2, and 3 and
Normal, which should always appear.

Your other questions are too hard

Word does not HAVE a "Default font". The concept is badly named as part of
the Theme mechanism. And no, it bears no relation to what you just set in
your Normal template.

You don't need to know about Themes for now. You cannot turn them off, but
you can just ignore them. Technically, they are an implementation of
"Formatting Output Specification Instance" which is an SGML term you could
look up if you really want to break your brain.

A similar but simplified version is the HTML "Cascading Style Sheet".

Since I do not know anyone other than Microsoft who has currently found
ANYTHING useful that Themes can do, I suggest you can leave them aside for
now.

Microsoft uses them to change the colours on their garish sample templates.
Real people making real documents should shoot anyone who attempts to use
Themes. A professional KNOWS what colours they want before they start on a
document, and they NEVER change them during the life of the document. Since
that is currently all that Themes do, I can't think of anything useful you
can do with them.

In the future, wed can expect Themes to grow into a full implementation of
the FOSI, and when they do that, you can do some seriously powerful things
with them. But that hasn't happened in PC Word yet, and certainly not in
Mac Word.

Cheers

Some basic questions as I try to learn styles while reading Clive's
"Bend.....". Currently on page 99 of that helpful "book."

1. Why are there three (3) heading styles in my Normal template as shown
in the Formatting Toolbar but in Format>Styles window does not show any
heading styles in use?



I'm trying to Modify the Heading styles to be based on my Normal but I'm
having difficulty. First it says in the description of Heading 1 that it
is based on Normal + Font(Default) + Theme Headings. Well I thought I
had changed the Default font and I didn't know I needed Theme setting
and I know zero about Themes. So two questions on that:

2. Isn't the Default font what I've selected in my normal template? I
changed it there and save a new normal template as recommended.

3. And do I need to know about Themes? Haven't scratched the surface on
Themes. Can I turn-off Themes?

Thank you very much.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Until styles are applied to text IN THAT DOCUMENT, they will not appear in
the Format>Styles... Dialog if it is set to the "Available styles" list.

The Formatting Palette applies a hidden work-around (which is a settable
option in Word 2007) to make an exception for Heading 1, 2, and 3 and
Normal, which should always appear.

Is my attempt to change the Heading styles to be based on my bt style
sensible?

And can I do that in Word 2008?

Your other questions are too hard

Victory for me.

Word does not HAVE a "Default font". The concept is badly named as part of
the Theme mechanism. And no, it bears no relation to what you just set in
your Normal template.

So where did Word 2008 "find" Calibri to put in "my" Heading 1, 2,
and 3?

And can I change that source of Calibri for those Heading 1, 2 and 3 and
any other place to which Word 2008 is inserting what it thinks is the
Default font.

Thanks much.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Is my attempt to change the Heading styles to be based on my bt style
sensible?

You tell me: what are you trying to accomplish?

I wouldn't do it. I base Heading 1 on "No Style" and chain the rest to each
other. But I want inheritance to work all the way down the chain. You need
to decide what your needs are, then work the way that suits your workflow
best.

And can I do that in Word 2008?

You can do that in any version of Word.

So where did Word 2008 "find" Calibri to put in "my" Heading 1, 2,
and 3?

From the Office Theme.

And can I change that source of Calibri for those Heading 1, 2 and 3 and
any other place to which Word 2008 is inserting what it thinks is the
Default font.

You can, by screwing around with Themes. But since they're not useful and
very fiddly and you can only set them in PowerPoint, I regard the effort as
being not justified.

Just forget themes for now: in the next version, we hope to get the whole
mechanism, and then it may be more use. For now, it's a feature that hasn't
happened yet

Cheers

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

Is my attempt to change the Heading styles to be based on my bt style
sensible?

You tell me: what are you trying to accomplish?[/QUOTE]

I was just trying to have the Heading style pickup the same font I use
in my bt.

I wouldn't do it. I base Heading 1 on "No Style" and chain the rest to each
other. But I want inheritance to work all the way down the chain. You need
to decide what your needs are, then work the way that suits your workflow
best.

OK... understand!

Just forget themes for now: in the next version, we hope to get the whole
mechanism, and then it may be more use. For now, it's a feature that hasn't
happened yet

That will save me much frustration.

Thanks.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hi John:




You tell me: what are you trying to accomplish?

I was just trying to have the Heading style pickup the same font I use
in my bt.[/QUOTE]

My recommendation, consistent with John's, is to base Heading 1 on "No
style" and have all other headings cascade down from this, and the style you
use for body text based on No Style as well.

So, if you want to change the fonts in a document then you need, if
following this practice, to redefine both Heading 1 and your body text.

For typographical efficiency and aesthetics it's a good idea to have a
different font for headings and body text -- a pain with manual formatting
but a breeze with styles.

Cheers,

Clive

 

[Norm]

My recommendation, consistent with John's, is to base Heading 1 on "No
style" and have all other headings cascade down from this, and the style you
use for body text based on No Style as well.

So, if you want to change the fonts in a document then you need, if
following this practice, to redefine both Heading 1 and your body text.

For typographical efficiency and aesthetics it's a good idea to have a
different font for headings and body text -- a pain with manual formatting
but a breeze with styles.

Thanks much. Now I "think" I've got that one.

Appreciate,

Norm

 

[Norm]

And can I change that source of Calibri for those Heading 1, 2 and 3 and
any other place to which Word 2008 is inserting what it thinks is the
Default font.

You can, by screwing around with Themes. But since they're not useful and
very fiddly and you can only set them in PowerPoint, I regard the effort as
being not justified.[/QUOTE]

It still pulls in Calibri even when I base the Heading on No Style.

I gather there is not a "No Theme" setting.

So to change "Heading" styles, I change the font, etc. in all or at
least Heading 1 if I base the others on it.

Thanks.

 

[John McGhie]

No, there is no "No Theme" setting {Sigh}.

Open the Toolbox and you will find "Document Theme" as the bottom segment.

The theme overrides all the styles in the document. It offers you the
ability to instantly get into more trouble than a one-armed New York taxi
driver with the crabs

Cheers

You can, by screwing around with Themes. But since they're not useful and
very fiddly and you can only set them in PowerPoint, I regard the effort as
being not justified.

It still pulls in Calibri even when I base the Heading on No Style.

I gather there is not a "No Theme" setting.

So to change "Heading" styles, I change the font, etc. in all or at
least Heading 1 if I base the others on it.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

No, there is no "No Theme" setting {Sigh}.

Open the Toolbox and you will find "Document Theme" as the bottom segment.

The theme overrides all the styles in the document. It offers you the
ability to instantly get into more trouble than a one-armed New York taxi
driver with the crabs

So if one wants to use the Word Heading styles for the benefits that
have been described but not the specific formatting (font, size, indent,
etc.), how does one best override the theme styles?

Thanks.

 

[Michel Bintener]

Hi Norm,

just customise the heading styles. If you select a font manually, i.e.
if the Font field in the Modify Style dialogue does not end with "(Theme
Body)" or "(Theme Headings)", the fonts of the corresponding styles
won't change when you choose a different theme. Other than that, if you
don't want your styles to change, simply don't go near the Document
Theme pane in the Formatting Palette. If you don't, nothing will change.

 

[Norm]

just customise the heading styles. If you select a font manually, i.e.
if the Font field in the Modify Style dialogue does not end with "(Theme
Body)" or "(Theme Headings)",

Thanks for the help.

Follow yours above. So I'll select a different Font without a "(theme
name)."

However, for color do I need to stay away from certain selections?

I haven't searched yet for the definition for "Automatic." I was leaning
to select that or text 1 to get just a generic type color.

the fonts of the corresponding styles
won't change when you choose a different theme.

You lost me there. I don't understand themes so the less I do with them
the happier I am. I understand there is no setting to select "no theme"
which is unfortunate IMHO.

Other than that, if you
don't want your styles to change, simply don't go near the Document
Theme pane in the Formatting Palette. If you don't, nothing will change.

As above would prefer not using themes.

And I don't use the Formatting Palette, so OK there.

Thanks again.