redefine Normal style in Word 2004

[Jim Vance]

This question pertains to re-defining the Normal style in the active
document in Word 2004.

To facilitate re-defining styles, I have placed the command
&Redefine Style
as a button in one of the toolbars. That way, I can change some
characteristic of a paragraph in a certain style and click on the button --
and voila, all the paragraphs in that style are instantly changed
appropriately, as are all the paragraphs in styles that are based upon the
changed style.

For example, to change an entire document from 12 point Bookman (the font I
use for my Normal style, by default) to 11 point Times, all I have to do is
select one word in one paragraph based on the Normal style, change the word
to 11 point Times, and (with the word still selected) click on the
"&Redefine Style" button, and the whole document changes, since essentially
all styles are based on Normal.

BUT in Word 2004, the
&Redefine Style
button is dimmed when the style to be changed is the Normal style. From
correspondence based on a previous posting about this matter, I learned that
(1) this change in Word's behavior from Office X to Office 2004 was
intentional, but
(2) it was to be reversed with "Office 2004 11.1.0 Update".

Well, I am still stuck with this problem after applying the update. (That
is, I am running Word version 11.1 (040910), and I still can't redefine
Normal with a button-click.

Can anyone offer a work-around?? (e.g., a Macro?)

Thanks in advance for any and all replies.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Jim:

Yes, it's by design, and no, the update did not change this. The following
Help topic explains:

I can't redefine the Normal style.
Typically, when you apply a style to text, change the text formatting, and
then reapply the style by using the Style list on the Formatting toolbar,
Microsoft Word gives you the option of either updating the style based on
the new formatting or reapplying the style as it was last defined.
By contrast, when you apply the Normal style to text, Word does not give you
the option of updating the style. Instead of prompting you either to
redefine or reapply the Normal style, Word automatically reapplies the
Normal style and overwrites the formatting changes you made.
To redefine the Normal style, do the following:
1. On the Format menu, click Style.
2. In the Styles box, click Normal, and then click Modify.
3. To permanently redefine the Normal style, select the Add to template
check box.
4. Click Format, and then click the attribute ‹ such as Font or Numbering ‹
you want to change.
5. Make the changes you want, and then click OK.
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 for any additional attributes you want to change.

This question pertains to re-defining the Normal style in the active
document in Word 2004.

To facilitate re-defining styles, I have placed the command
&Redefine Style
as a button in one of the toolbars. That way, I can change some
characteristic of a paragraph in a certain style and click on the button --
and voila, all the paragraphs in that style are instantly changed
appropriately, as are all the paragraphs in styles that are based upon the
changed style.

For example, to change an entire document from 12 point Bookman (the font I
use for my Normal style, by default) to 11 point Times, all I have to do is
select one word in one paragraph based on the Normal style, change the word
to 11 point Times, and (with the word still selected) click on the
"&Redefine Style" button, and the whole document changes, since essentially
all styles are based on Normal.

BUT in Word 2004, the
&Redefine Style
button is dimmed when the style to be changed is the Normal style. From
correspondence based on a previous posting about this matter, I learned that
(1) this change in Word's behavior from Office X to Office 2004 was
intentional, but
(2) it was to be reversed with "Office 2004 11.1.0 Update".

Well, I am still stuck with this problem after applying the update. (That
is, I am running Word version 11.1 (040910), and I still can't redefine
Normal with a button-click.

Can anyone offer a work-around?? (e.g., a Macro?)

Thanks in advance for any and all replies.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[WJ Shack]

Yes, it's by design, and no, the update did not change this. The following
Help topic explains:

But why did Microsoft change this? Redefine Style has redefined the Normal
style since at least Word 5.1. As Mr. Vance points out, this was very
convenient. I see absolutely no reason to have changed this.

 

[JE McGimpsey]

But why did Microsoft change this? Redefine Style has redefined the Normal
style since at least Word 5.1. As Mr. Vance points out, this was very
convenient. I see absolutely no reason to have changed this.

I suspect to be compatible with WinWord, for which the ability to
RedefineStyle the Normal style has been gone since Word97 or so.

I'd guess that the original reason was to prevent newbies from getting
irrevocably lost when their Normal style got modified. That isn't a
sufficient reason, in my mind, but since I never use the Normal style
for anything, I'm not particularly affected by it, either.

 

[Clive Huggan]

I suspect to be compatible with WinWord, for which the ability to
RedefineStyle the Normal style has been gone since Word97 or so.

I'd guess that the original reason was to prevent newbies from getting
irrevocably lost when their Normal style got modified. That isn't a
sufficient reason, in my mind, but since I never use the Normal style
for anything, I'm not particularly affected by it, either.

Jim,

You asked if anyone had a macro. Take a look at the macro in appendix E
(find the heading "Change the font of the Normal (or another) style") of
"Bend Word to Your Will", available as a free download from
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/WordMac/Bend/BendWord.htm

Under that heading I say:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Variants of this macro allow me to change the font of a style. For example,
I use Goudy font in some of my business correspondence, but it doesn¹t
display well on the screen. So I type the letter up in Times then change the
font to Goudy via a button.

These macros are easy to change in relation to the style you want to modify
and the font you want to deploy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The macro does what you want.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is at least 5 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================

 

[Klaus Linke]

I suspect to be compatible with WinWord, for which the ability to

RedefineStyle the Normal style has been gone since Word97 or so.

Hi John,

Are you sure? I haven't seen that on any Win version (2000,2002, 2003).

As to the reasons, you're probably right.
But I don't think it makes sense to try to lock down Normal to "TNR 12 pt".
It's another change that makes "Normal" less usable.
Another change with the same effect is that you can't define font
formatting in table styles once you've changed that font formatting in
"Normal".

Seems like changes for the worse... unless there are very good reason for
them which I can't see.

Regards,
Klaus

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Are you sure? I haven't seen that on any Win version (2000,2002, 2003).

Actually, I was basing that on previous posts - I never used anything
prior to Word97, and I use WinWord only for testing apps.

However, I did check that Word03, running in VPC, exhibited the same
behavior as Word04 before I posted.

 

[tuqqer]

Jim,

You have me very intrigued with your statement,
"... but since I never use the Normal style for anything, I'm not
particularly affected by it..."

I'm guessing you do this to avoid problems that come up with using the
Normal style; if so, I want to learn to run Word (2004, v11.1) the
same way.

•• What are the advantages to not using the Normal style?

•• Is it as simple as going into the template of choice, and
reassigning the basic paragraph to ones own customized style?

•• Also, do you avoid using the Normal style for the "Style based on"
and the "Style for following paragraph"?

Last: do you also avoid using the Normal template? If so, how do you
get Word to open up your choice of template (let's say it's called
MyNormal) at startup, as well as reassigning any existing document
(based on Normal template) to the new prefered template?

Thanks. I appreciate this forum, and am learning a ton from it.

Pitch

 

[JE McGimpsey]

You have me very intrigued with your statement,
"... but since I never use the Normal style for anything, I'm not
particularly affected by it..."

I'm guessing you do this to avoid problems that come up with using the
Normal style; if so, I want to learn to run Word (2004, v11.1) the
same way.

•• What are the advantages to not using the Normal style?

•• Is it as simple as going into the template of choice, and
reassigning the basic paragraph to ones own customized style?

•• Also, do you avoid using the Normal style for the "Style based on"
and the "Style for following paragraph"?

When I create templates, I use 2 or 3 hierarchies (e.g., Headings, Body
Text, Code) each based on a main style (Heading1, BodyText, Code) which
itself is based on "no style", with subsidiary styles (e.g., Heading2,
BodyText2) based on the main styles. That way when I change the font or
spacing on Heading1, it flows to Headings2/3/4.. but doesn't affect
BodyText styles. If they were based on Normal, a single change would
flow through to all hierarchies.

As an added benefit, when examining my documents (I always keep the
style area width set to at least 3/4 inch), it's obvious that any
paragraphs set to Normal (i.e., perhaps pasted text), has not been
formatted yet, kind of like a null.

for more, see John McGhie's "Creating a Template (Part II)"

http://www.word.mvps.org/faqs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart2.htm

and Clive Huggan's "Bend Word to Your Will":

http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/Bend/BendWord.htm

Last: do you also avoid using the Normal template?

Absolutely! The Normal template is a scratchpad for an enormous number
of settings, and, historically, has been highly susceptible to
corruption. In fact, I used to start Word with an Applescript that
deleted the Normal template each time, before starting Word. I haven't
found that necessary with Word2004, but I still trash Normal about once
a week or so.

I have three add-ins in my Startup folder that set all my preferences,
replace the existing toolbars and menus, replace built-in commands with
my substitutes (e.g., to arrange docs horizontally rather than
vertically), and establish classes that modify the real-time behavior of
Word.

An alternative, and more common, strategy is to get your settings in
Normal the way you want, then save a copy, and replace Normal with your
saved copy every so often.

If so, how do you get Word to open up your choice of template (let's
say it's called MyNormal) at startup, as well as reassigning any
existing document (based on Normal template) to the new prefered
template?

I use the Project Gallery. I don't generally reassign existing
documents. If I have to, I use the regular method - Tools/Templates and
Addins/Attach.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Further to JE's comments: Avoiding Normal style has a number of advantages,
all of which increase one's control of Word and decrease the chance of
corruption in long documents. A particular example is with automatic
numbering. If you interchange Word docs with other people, it's the best way
to avoid having other people's settings for Normal over-ride yours when
displayed on their computer if they have configured their computer
accordingly (usually by accident).

Your 2nd question: You don't have to go to the template of one's choice --
the blank new document produced when you key Command-n can have the one
paragraph that appears (I prefer two) formatted in -- say -- a body text
style that is not based on Normal.

Your 3rd question: yes, yes.

Your last question: I don't avoid using the Normal template, because I'm
light years behind JE on this. But I do back it up every time I make a
change, and weekly otherwise. I should add that my Normal template has
customized toolbars and styles etc., so it isn't the same as the one that
Word produces by default.

For more information on my approaches (there are many others, and JE's are
more advanced), read the introductory text in "Bend Word to Your Will" (URL
below) then do a Find command for:

* Why is it best not to alter the default toolbars?

* Use a body text style, not Normal, in long documents

* Some advantages of attaching a document to a template other than Normal

* Stopping other people¹s styles over-riding yours when they receive your
document

* Use heading styles in long documents; don¹t embolden Normal text.

It isn't a short story (and I don't address it point-by-point in "Bend Word
to Your Will" but in various places, to save repetition) but avoiding Normal
style will bring big rewards in simplicity and stability of long documents.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is at least 5 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================

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newsgroup for several days after the first response comes in. Sometimes it
takes a few responses before the best or complete solution is proposed;
sometimes you'll be asked for further information so that a better answer
can be provided. Good tips about getting the best out of posting are at
http://www.word.mvps.org/FindHelp/Posting.htm (if you use Safari, you may
need to hit the circular arrow icon -- "Reload the current page" -- a few
times).

============================================================

 

[Klaus Linke]

* Stopping other people¹s styles over-riding yours when they receive

your document

Hi Clive,

I think that may sound a bit misleading to novice users...

It sounds as if the styles in the recipient's Normal dot can over-ride the
styles in your document automatically somehow (depending on some setting in
Word?).

The recipient must change your document by copying the styles from his
Normal.dot into your document...
The dialog text just obscures what happens:
"Tools > Templates and Add-Ins > Automatically update document styles".

If a user goes to the trouble of changing your document, there isn't much
you can do about it.

Regards,
Klaus

 

[Klaus Linke]

However, I did check that Word03, running in VPC, exhibited the

same behavior as Word04 before I posted.

Hi John,

Sorry, I should always check such things by starting Word without my
customizations.
I had replaced "RedefineStyle" with my own macro ... because I didn't like
the new behaviour (see macro below).

Regards,
Klaus


Sub RedefineStyle()
Dim myStyle As Style
For Each myStyle In ActiveDocument.Styles
If Selection.Style.NameLocal = myStyle.NameLocal Then
Select Case myStyle.Type
Case wdStyleTypeParagraph
myStyle.ParagraphFormat = Selection.Paragraphs(1).Format
myStyle.Font = Selection.Font
Case wdStyleTypeParagraph
myStyle.Font = Selection.Font
End Select
End If
Next myStyle
End Sub

 

[JE McGimpsey]

I should always check such things by starting Word without my
customizations.

While I don't always check before posting, I have several separate
accounts under OS X specifically for testing - a stock XL and Word 2004
installation, a stock XL and Word v.X, a stock XL and Word 2001, etc.

I had replaced "RedefineStyle" with my own macro ... because I didn't like
the new behaviour (see macro below).

Hmm... It looks like the second Case won't ever execute. Did you mean to
use wdStyleTypeCharacter?

That's a useful approach - it would be nice to extend it to List and
Table types, as well.

Sub RedefineStyle()
Dim myStyle As Style
For Each myStyle In ActiveDocument.Styles
If Selection.Style.NameLocal = myStyle.NameLocal Then
Select Case myStyle.Type
Case wdStyleTypeParagraph
myStyle.ParagraphFormat = Selection.Paragraphs(1).Format
myStyle.Font = Selection.Font
Case wdStyleTypeParagraph
myStyle.Font = Selection.Font
End Select
End If
Next myStyle
End Sub

Given my programming style, I think I'd also put an "Exit For" statement
before the End If (never know when those microseconds may come in handy
<g>).

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

It sounds as if the styles in the recipient's Normal dot can over-ride the
styles in your document automatically somehow (depending on some setting in
Word?).

Isn't that the case? Sounds so here:
http://shaunakelly.com/word/sharing/WillMyFormatChange.html

"What happens when Word opens a document?

When Word opens a document, it doesn’t care about the styles in the template
on which the document was based …

unless …

you ticked the box at Tools > Templates and Add‑Ins > Automatically Update
Document Styles.

If that box is ticked in your document then, when Word opens the document,
Word searches for the template on which the document was based. If it finds
that template, then Word copies the styles from that template to the
document."

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

I should always check such things by starting Word without my

While I don't always check before posting, I have several separate
accounts under OS X specifically for testing - a stock XL and Word 2004
installation, a stock XL and Word v.X, a stock XL and Word 2001, etc.

Oh! Accounts under OS X. I was thinking it would require partitions or
something. Will have to mess with that, well, will have to add it to the
long list of software things waiting for me to get to.

DM

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Oh! Accounts under OS X. I was thinking it would require partitions or
something. Will have to mess with that, well, will have to add it to the
long list of software things waiting for me to get to.

As long as you don't put anything in your Applications:Microsoft Office
2004: folder, you can have "clean" installations in separate accounts
(I'll admit that mine aren't totally clean - I have an anti-PDFMaker
folder in each Startup folder).

You then need to change where Word and XL look for startup folders in
their respective Preferences (File Locations and General, respectively).

 

[Klaus Linke]

Hmm... It looks like the second Case won't ever execute.

Did you mean to use wdStyleTypeCharacter?

Yes, that was a typo! As to table and list styles, I think they are
probably beyond the scope of the built-in "Redefine style" command, too?

I wouldn't know how to "manually" change the numbering from a list style
anyway, and to analyze manually formatted tables for the rules needed for
table styles would be daunting.

Suzanne S. Barnhill told me that the "Redefine Style" command is seriously
buggy in Word2003 (and 2002): If you use it, the action doesn't appear on
the Undo list and can't be undone.
It seems to be a problem with all styles, not only "Normal".
That's really bad, and might be a good reason to avoid the built-in
command.
Haven't tested Word2004; in Word2000, "RedefineStyle" appears on the Undo
list if you click the control.

Regards,
Klaus

 

[Klaus Linke]

If that box is ticked in your document then, when Word opens

the document, Word searches for the template on which the
document was based.

Hi Daiya,

Yes, BUT... ;-)

You have to first open the doc, click the button in "Tools > Templates and
add-ins", then save the document and close it.

It's a document specific setting, and can't appear by any magic in your
document except if somebody sets it first (as far as I know).

Regards,
Klaus

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Haven't tested Word2004; in Word2000, "RedefineStyle" appears on the Undo
list if you click the control.

Redefine Style appears on the Undo list in 2004.

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Yes, that was a typo! As to table and list styles, I think they are
probably beyond the scope of the built-in "Redefine style" command, too?

I wouldn't know how to "manually" change the numbering from a list style
anyway, and to analyze manually formatted tables for the rules needed for
table styles would be daunting.

Yeah, I was thinking out loud. I don't know how I'd go about it, either.
Perhaps I'll let it percolate for a bit...