Repagination -vs- printing bug in Word2k3

[Dave Korn]

Morning all,

MS Office Word 2003 (11.6568.6568) SP2.

IMHO it's a bug that word should repaginate in-between the time when you
enter a range of page-numbers to print in the print dialog and the time when
it comes to actually print them out!

It should either automatically adjust the page range you've entered in the
print dialog, or warn you it has to repaginate and offer you a chance to
cancel the print, or even better both, but the last thing it should do is
print out a different range of pages than you were expecting it to.


cheers,
DaveK

 

[Charles Kenyon]

Word does its actual pagination at print time, all else is approximation,
although the print preview is very close. Did you do a print preview?
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide


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This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

 

[Graham Mayor]

Do you have tools > options > print > update links and update fields
checked, which force updates?

--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP


<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>

 

[Dave Korn]

Word does its actual pagination at print time, all else is
approximation, although the print preview is very close. Did you do a
print preview?

Ah, no, I didn't, and that does indeed force the repaginate to occur
before the printout. Thanks for the solution!

I still think it's a design logic error to ask the user for data and then
do something that is fairly much guaranteed to invalidate that data before
then going ahead and using it as if nothing had happened; it's a UI
design/least surprise issue. If the page range isn't going to be valid, for
example, perhaps the box should be greyed-out. Or if the pagination is only
ever appoximation, then the box should be labelled "Approximate page range".
It really shouldn't whip the rug out from under my feet however.

cheers,
DaveK

 

[Dave Korn]

Do you have tools > options > print > update links and update fields
checked, which force updates?

Oh, no, I didn't. It's still a bit odd though. If I turn them on, what
happens when I go to print is that up pop a bunch of dialogs asking if I
want to update just page numbers or the full contents of the
toc/table-of-figures.

If I OK them, it goes and and updates them, then repaginates, then goes
ahead and prints out the wrong pages, as before.

If I cancel one of them, it also cancels the repagination, and I finally
get the pages I was expecting to see.

Of course, switching on the options to force even more changes in between
choosing my page range and seeing it printed is not an obvious way to try
and eliminate the changes that take place in between choosing my page range
and seeing it printed!

Thanks to you and Charles for replying. I guess I just have to accept
that you can't use page ranges without doing a preview first. It would be
nice if Word could remember that for me, rather than me having to remember
it, because that's what computers do best!

cheers,
DaveK

 

[Charles Kenyon]

For most people, it isn't that critical. Are you working in normal view or
print view? I've found print view maintains pagination a bit more regularly
than does normal view.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide


--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

 

[Dave Korn]

For most people, it isn't that critical.

[ now verging off-topic onto the general theory and practice of hci and ui
design and implementation... ]

On the face of it, the suggestion that most people don't mind whether they
get the pages they asked for printed out or some other range of pages seems
the sort of surprising claim that should be backed by statistical evidence
or survey results!

However, it is of course not "critical" for anybody - this isn't a
life-support machine that I need to read the manual for in a massive hurry
before I give someone a blast on the defrib! It's an irritation, an
annoyance, and an uneconomical environmentally unfriendly waste of paper.
None of this is the end of the world. (Perhaps "not that critical"
shouldn't be read as "people don't mind when it happens" in the context of
your reply; in which case the objection that "people _do_ mind about this,
but it doesn't kill them" is not a justification for leaving a
bug/misfeature to stand).

But there is nothing on earth you can say that will convince me that, when
I click on a page and see the page number displayed on the status line and
press Ctrl+P and enter that number into the page range box and click ok, and
word suddenly jumps to a different page and prints /that/ one out - there is
nothing on earth anyone can say that will convince me either that that's
"not a bug", or that it's a design feature that was implemented in accord
with the wishes of end users.... and we're just going to have to agree to
disagree if you think it's a good bit of software design/engineering/UI.

Are you working in normal
view or print view? I've found print view maintains pagination a bit
more regularly than does normal view.

The reason it's a problem is because I didn't actually originate the
document, but retrieved it from the version control system in our company's
repository. Somehow, it's been stored in there in a stale/dirty state, and
every time I open it up it comes up in this paradoxical state. Making word
force a repaginate as part of the save operation would solve my particular
problem in this particular case.

cheers,
DaveK

 

[Margaret Aldis]

Bottom posted :

Oh, no, I didn't. It's still a bit odd though. If I turn them on, what
happens when I go to print is that up pop a bunch of dialogs asking if I
want to update just page numbers or the full contents of the
toc/table-of-figures.

If I OK them, it goes and and updates them, then repaginates, then goes
ahead and prints out the wrong pages, as before.

If I cancel one of them, it also cancels the repagination, and I finally
get the pages I was expecting to see.

Of course, switching on the options to force even more changes in between
choosing my page range and seeing it printed is not an obvious way to try
and eliminate the changes that take place in between choosing my page
range and seeing it printed!

Thanks to you and Charles for replying. I guess I just have to accept
that you can't use page ranges without doing a preview first. It would be
nice if Word could remember that for me, rather than me having to remember
it, because that's what computers do best!

cheers,
DaveK

The extra information about the TOC update suggests another possibility -
are you perhaps working with hidden text of some kind showing on the screen?
If your view doesn't match your print, then of course Word will have to
repaginate and will also be giving you the wrong page numbers in the initial
dialog.

Getting the dialog re a full TOC update might also indicate that you haven't
updated the TOC manually after some structure change - if that changes the
number of pages needed for the TOC then of course that again would give you
wrong page numbers for the print.

 

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi Dave,

It would definitely be nice if the Windows 'common dialog' style used in Word's File=>Print area would work based solely from the
status bar in Word, but there are what some folks would consider 'odd' uses of page numbering that make it seem 'wrong' no matter
how it goes

For example. One scenario.

1. Open a new blank document and switch to Print Layout view.

2. Create ~10 pages of text by typing in the blank document
=rand(100,10)(enter key)

3. You should now be viewing the end of the document (i.e. Word takes you to the end after generating text. Double click the "Page
10" on the left hand side of the status bar to bring up the 'Go to' dialog. Choose 'Page' and type in
5 then click okay.

4. Use Insert=>Page Numbers=>[Format]. Choose 1,2,3... as the number style and
type '8' in the 'start with' block. Click OK OK out of the dialog.

5. Now on the status bar, although you haven't moved from 'page 5' you now see that it shows that you are on Page 12, but also you
are on page 5 of 10 (5/10) of section 1.

6. If you double click on Page 12 and use Go to Page 8 [close] what page number are you in the status bar (looking at both 'Page n'
and the x/y of Section 1)?

At this point, if you go to File=>Print and ask to print pages 8-10 which 8-10 would you want/expect. The ones numbered 8-10, the
8th through 10th page of section 1, or ???

It might be possible to have the print dialog give choices for 'pages as numbered', or 'pages in this section numbered...', but the
possibilities for confusion arise. It may be a factor in determining why they've pretty much left it to be 'interpreted' by this
article for a few versions
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/826218/en-us?FR=1

One workaround that may be helpful to get what you expect is to select the pages you want to print and then use File=>Print (o)
Selection.

As for User Interface Design and Human Factors Engineering and Microsoft Word, you may find the information on the '2007 Microsoft
Office System' interesting
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/default.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/uifaq.mspx


========

For most people, it isn't that critical.

[ now verging off-topic onto the general theory and practice of hci and ui
design and implementation... ]

On the face of it, the suggestion that most people don't mind whether they
get the pages they asked for printed out or some other range of pages seems
the sort of surprising claim that should be backed by statistical evidence
or survey results!

However, it is of course not "critical" for anybody - this isn't a
life-support machine that I need to read the manual for in a massive hurry
before I give someone a blast on the defrib! It's an irritation, an
annoyance, and an uneconomical environmentally unfriendly waste of paper.
None of this is the end of the world. (Perhaps "not that critical"
shouldn't be read as "people don't mind when it happens" in the context of
your reply; in which case the objection that "people _do_ mind about this,
but it doesn't kill them" is not a justification for leaving a
bug/misfeature to stand).

But there is nothing on earth you can say that will convince me that, when
I click on a page and see the page number displayed on the status line and
press Ctrl+P and enter that number into the page range box and click ok, and
word suddenly jumps to a different page and prints /that/ one out - there is
nothing on earth anyone can say that will convince me either that that's
"not a bug", or that it's a design feature that was implemented in accord
with the wishes of end users.... and we're just going to have to agree to
disagree if you think it's a good bit of software design/engineering/UI.

Are you working in normal
view or print view? I've found print view maintains pagination a bit
more regularly than does normal view.

The reason it's a problem is because I didn't actually originate the
document, but retrieved it from the version control system in our company's
repository. Somehow, it's been stored in there in a stale/dirty state, and
every time I open it up it comes up in this paradoxical state. Making word
force a repaginate as part of the save operation would solve my particular
problem in this particular case.

cheers,
DaveK
--
Can't think of a witty .sigline today.... >>
--
Let us know if this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

Pricing and Packages for '2007 Microsoft Office System'
http://microsoft.com/office/preview