Rule works when tested but not applied to incoming

[Henry]

Folks:

MacOS 10.2.8 Entourage 10.1.4 Build O30702

Filtering isn't working, as follows:

I have two rules enabled:

Rule #1 "junkmail" [topmost in list]
Execute...if any criteria are met
--If--
o Is Junk Mail
--Then--
o Play sound -- No mail sound
o Change status -- Junk mail
o Move message -- junkmail

[Enabled] Do not apply other rules to messages that meet these criteria


Rule #2 "antispam" [bottom in list]
Execute...if any criteria are met
--If--
o Subject -- Contains -- Henry
o Message body -- Contains -- Citrate
o Date sent -- is greater than -- 1 days
o Message body -- Contains -- viagra
...(lots of other items regarding body parts, high finance, etc.)
--Then--
o Move message -- spam
o Play sound -- No mail sound

[Enabled] Do not apply other rules to messages that meet these criteria

The Junk Mail Filter (JMF) is enabled and set to the highest value. I've
been getting a steady stream of spam today, but NONE is going into either
folder "junkmail" or the alternate folder "spam". Instead, spam simply
appears in my Inbox as if I had implemented none of this. Why?

My interpretation of the two-rule setup described above is:

FIRST, Entourage applies its standard for junk. Apparently no recent
messages meet these criteria, so...

SECOND, each message is then examined by the second rule, which includes a
bunch of keywords and conditions I picked.

I can sniff around by selecting some spam messages in my Inbox, and then, in
the following order:

1) I choose Message-->Apply Rule-->All Rules, and then nothing happens,
which is NOT what I expect, since the messages invariably include one or
more of the criteria in Rule #2.

2) I choose Message-->Apply Rule--> junkmail, also nothing happens. I was
assured in an earlier post that JMF is only run via "All Rules" so this does
absolutely nothing -- there's no way the status of the messages can be
changed. Fair enough.

3) If I choose Message --> Apply Rule --> antispam, I hear a short beep and
the message is moved to folder "spam". This is exactly what I expect for
all messages I've checked today.

OK, so why does the normal reception sequence or executing Message-->Apply
Rule-->All Rules fail to delete these messages?

Is there something that's preventing the second rule from being applied?
The option "Do not apply other rules to messages that meet these criteria"
doesn't seem to have any effect, because the criteria of the first rule is
not being applied.

Oh yes, I don't have "Mistress Zelda", "LongDong", et al listed in my
address book, not that --as I understand-- this should prevent the second
rule from being applied. But maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks,

Henry

(e-mail address removed)

 

[Diane Ross]

Filtering isn't working, as follows:

I have two rules enabled:

Rule #1 "junkmail" [topmost in list]

See

Junk Mail Rule <http://www.entourage.mvps.org//rules/rules_junk.html>

 

[Henry]

Diane Ross:

Thank you for your reply to my post:

Filtering isn't working, as follows:

I have two rules enabled:

Rule #1 "junkmail" [topmost in list]

See

Junk Mail Rule <http://www.entourage.mvps.org//rules/rules_junk.html>

Well, yes, I consulted that page before setting up the rules I described in
my post, and I've been over it in great detail just now, trying to figure
out where I've gone wrong.

Partly to demonstrate I did actually go over it in detail, let me note some
oddities on this page:

1) With regards to the statement

"Option: make sure all of your junk mail catching rules (if any) are above
the basic rule and they have the "Do not apply further rules to messages
that meet these criteria" option unchecked. "

A) It isn't clear what this is an option FOR. This seems to contradict the
advice further below:

"Create additional Rules for "Junk Subjects² ,³Junk phrases² ,³Junk domains
², "Additional Criteria" ."Character Sets", Country of Origin .Place these
rules at the bottom of your rule list. "

which is what I've done, except that I lumped all these into one rule with
lots of "if" conditions.

B) I don't seem to be able to control the checkbox for "Do not apply further
rules..." -- it is grey'd out for reasons I don't understand.

Hmmmm, It seems clear that the rules are ordered, the top-most being applied
first. What would be the point of ordering multiple rules in the rule list
if the top one had this option unchecked? This doesn't make a lot of sense.

2) I believe is a missing word and some awkward usage that obscures the
meaning of the portion

"You need to manually run the rule using Message -> Apply Rule -> Junk (see
tip)
1. Messages that are manually marked as junk
2. Messages marked as junk by rules after the Basic Junk Mail Rule"

This would be a whole lot clearer if it read as follows:

"You need to manually run the rule using Message -> Apply Rule -> Junk (see
tip) FOR
1. Messages YOU MANUALLY MARK AS JUNK
2. Messages marked as junk by rules after (BELOW) the Basic Junk Mail
Rule"


3) The advice

"If you are new to rules, please add one at a time to verify that the rule
is not causing problems."

is not exactly helpful. What kind of problems? Scabies? Can't find a
parking place? World Hunger? What's the point of this nonspecific
warning? Adding rules, or simply If...then elements to a given rule
should NOT be a problem. Unless this statement is intended to imply that
this portion of Entourage is unreliable.

As far as I can tell, I have two rules, one which should move messages
caught by JMF to one folder, and another which should move messages my rule
catches to another folder. This set-up does not work reliably, and there's
nothing I can see in the page you reference that explains this.

Thanks,

Henry

(e-mail address removed)

 

[Mickey Stevens]

Try moving the antispam rule to the top of the list.

Or, change your rule structure so it looks like this, which might be more
efficient:
Rule #1 "antispam" [top of list]
Execute...if any criteria are met
--If--
o Subject -- Contains -- Henry
o Message body -- Contains -- Citrate
o Date sent -- is greater than -- 1 days
o Message body -- Contains -- viagra
...(lots of other items regarding body parts, high finance, etc.)
--Then--
o Set Category Junk

[Enabled] (do not check option to not apply other rules to messages)

Rule #2 "junkmail" [bottom in list]
Execute...if any criteria are met
--If--
o Is Junk Mail
--Then--
o Play sound -- No mail sound
o Change status -- Junk mail
o Move message -- junkmail

[Enabled] ˆ Do not apply other rules to messages that meet these criteria

Hope this helps.

Folks:

MacOS 10.2.8 Entourage 10.1.4 Build O30702

Filtering isn't working, as follows:

I have two rules enabled:

Rule #1 "junkmail" [topmost in list]
Execute...if any criteria are met
--If--
o Is Junk Mail
--Then--
o Play sound -- No mail sound
o Change status -- Junk mail
o Move message -- junkmail

[Enabled] Do not apply other rules to messages that meet these criteria


Rule #2 "antispam" [bottom in list]
Execute...if any criteria are met
--If--
o Subject -- Contains -- Henry
o Message body -- Contains -- Citrate
o Date sent -- is greater than -- 1 days
o Message body -- Contains -- viagra
...(lots of other items regarding body parts, high finance, etc.)
--Then--
o Move message -- spam
o Play sound -- No mail sound

[Enabled] Do not apply other rules to messages that meet these criteria

The Junk Mail Filter (JMF) is enabled and set to the highest value. I've
been getting a steady stream of spam today, but NONE is going into either
folder "junkmail" or the alternate folder "spam". Instead, spam simply
appears in my Inbox as if I had implemented none of this. Why?

My interpretation of the two-rule setup described above is:

FIRST, Entourage applies its standard for junk. Apparently no recent
messages meet these criteria, so...

SECOND, each message is then examined by the second rule, which includes a
bunch of keywords and conditions I picked.

I can sniff around by selecting some spam messages in my Inbox, and then, in
the following order:

1) I choose Message-->Apply Rule-->All Rules, and then nothing happens,
which is NOT what I expect, since the messages invariably include one or
more of the criteria in Rule #2.

2) I choose Message-->Apply Rule--> junkmail, also nothing happens. I was
assured in an earlier post that JMF is only run via "All Rules" so this does
absolutely nothing -- there's no way the status of the messages can be
changed. Fair enough.

3) If I choose Message --> Apply Rule --> antispam, I hear a short beep and
the message is moved to folder "spam". This is exactly what I expect for
all messages I've checked today.

OK, so why does the normal reception sequence or executing Message-->Apply
Rule-->All Rules fail to delete these messages?

 

[Henry]

Mickey Stevens:

Thanks for your reply to my post: in article
BBC5B036.1E78B%[email protected], Mickey Stevens at

Try moving the antispam rule to the top of the list.

OK, I tried something that's even more simple: I de-activated Rule #2 so
that there are no other active rules whatever in the list. (I have some
additional experimental rules de-activated. I _assume_ that an inactive
rule is ...inert with respect to ordering in the list. So I'm doing what
you suggest, essentially.

No change. Spams appeared in my Inbox. If I selected them and manually
applied the Rule (the one and only), most would be correctly moved to a spam
folder.

Strangely, ordinary incoming messages from friends and colleagues were
generally moved into a spam folder automagically, despite having a complete
lack of pharmacological, financial, or sexual references such as my rule
checked for.

It's kind of like anything that met the rule criteria was ignored, and
anything that didn't was sent to the spam folder, sort of a logical
inversion of what the rule was supposed to do. I say "sort of" because I
didn't check carefully to see if this occurred consistently. I do know I
rescued a number of rather staid messages from the spam folder and I tossed
a number of truly amazing offers for viagra from my Inbox.

Would you share with me any reasons you know why a rule would work (in most
cases) when applied manually, but fail when applied automagically by
Entourage?

Bonus question: why might an apparent logic inversion occur? I've used a
lot of software where you could apply a NOT condition to do just this kind
of thing -- but there's no such control that I can find in Entourage.

Or, change your rule structure so it looks like this, which might be more
efficient:
Rule #1 "antispam" [top of list]
Execute...if any criteria are met
--If--
o Subject -- Contains -- Henry
o Message body -- Contains -- Citrate
o Date sent -- is greater than -- 1 days
o Message body -- Contains -- viagra
...(lots of other items regarding body parts, high finance, etc.)
--Then--
o Set Category Junk

[Enabled] (do not check option to not apply other rules to messages)

Rule #2 "junkmail" [bottom in list]
Execute...if any criteria are met
--If--
o Is Junk Mail
--Then--
o Play sound -- No mail sound
o Change status -- Junk mail
o Move message -- junkmail

[Enabled] ˆ Do not apply other rules to messages that meet these criteria

Sure, toss everything suspect into the junk classification, first via JMF
(assuming it is activated) and second via my rule. Then, and only then, do
a move. One move is likely faster than two -- thus, I guess, added
efficiency.

Well, this alternative would do one thing: it would obscure what messages
are eliminated by JMF and what messages my custom rules catch, a distinction
I do NOT want to lose. Since there's no documentation of how JMF works,
it's the only thing I can see to do to gain some understanding of what JMF
might catch and what it might not -- and thus tailor my own rules
accordingly. Seems to me like useful information.

In any case, you say "more efficient" not "functional". I'm willing to
waste some time to maintain the distinction.

Thanks,

Henry

(e-mail address removed)

Hope this helps.

Folks:

MacOS 10.2.8 Entourage 10.1.4 Build O30702

Filtering isn't working, as follows:

I have two rules enabled:

Rule #1 "junkmail" [topmost in list]
Execute...if any criteria are met
--If--
o Is Junk Mail
--Then--
o Play sound -- No mail sound
o Change status -- Junk mail
o Move message -- junkmail

[Enabled] Do not apply other rules to messages that meet these criteria


Rule #2 "antispam" [bottom in list]
Execute...if any criteria are met
--If--
o Subject -- Contains -- Henry
o Message body -- Contains -- Citrate
o Date sent -- is greater than -- 1 days
o Message body -- Contains -- viagra
...(lots of other items regarding body parts, high finance, etc.)
--Then--
o Move message -- spam
o Play sound -- No mail sound

[Enabled] Do not apply other rules to messages that meet these criteria

The Junk Mail Filter (JMF) is enabled and set to the highest value. I've
been getting a steady stream of spam today, but NONE is going into either
folder "junkmail" or the alternate folder "spam". Instead, spam simply
appears in my Inbox as if I had implemented none of this. Why?

My interpretation of the two-rule setup described above is:

FIRST, Entourage applies its standard for junk. Apparently no recent
messages meet these criteria, so...

SECOND, each message is then examined by the second rule, which includes a
bunch of keywords and conditions I picked.

I can sniff around by selecting some spam messages in my Inbox, and then, in
the following order:

1) I choose Message-->Apply Rule-->All Rules, and then nothing happens,
which is NOT what I expect, since the messages invariably include one or
more of the criteria in Rule #2.

2) I choose Message-->Apply Rule--> junkmail, also nothing happens. I was
assured in an earlier post that JMF is only run via "All Rules" so this does
absolutely nothing -- there's no way the status of the messages can be
changed. Fair enough.

3) If I choose Message --> Apply Rule --> antispam, I hear a short beep and
the message is moved to folder "spam". This is exactly what I expect for
all messages I've checked today.

OK, so why does the normal reception sequence or executing Message-->Apply
Rule-->All Rules fail to delete these messages?