Science Lab Scheduling?

[Aerial]

I have an idea and before I spend too much more time with it, I wonder what someone me familiar with Microsoft Project thinks of my chances..

I have a number of science laboratories supporting a number of classes that contain a number of exercises for each course. There are tasks that must happen before each exercise and I am wondering if Project is a feasible method to develop a way to track and plan for people, resource use and task tracking

Anyone done anything lilke this?

 

[Mark Durrenberger]

I've seen people attempt to use MSP for non-project applications such as
scheduling facilities (training rooms, testing labs) In general, the
attempts fail. I can't point to any one big reason they fail but a number
of small ones:

MSP is complicated to learn and stay effective with - you need to use it a
lot.
Projects by nature have changes in dates. Training/Classes do not (once
scheduled they tend to stay put)
When you "fix" a date in project, all sorts of other strange things can
happen.
Training such as what you describe is a mix of "project" work and
non-project, repetitive work MSP does not handle the non-project work in an
ideal way

MSP is a project modeling tool. It appears you are looking for a production
scheduling tool.

Unless there is a strong reason not to, you might consider the "white board"
calendar approach...

Mark





--
_________________________________________________________
Mark Durrenberger, PMP
Principal, Oak Associates, Inc, www.oakinc.com
"Advancing the Theory and Practice of Project Management"
________________________________________________________

The nicest thing about NOT planning is that failure
comes as a complete surprise and is not preceded by
a period of worry and depression.

- Sir John Harvey-Jones

I have an idea and before I spend too much more time with it, I wonder

what someone me familiar with Microsoft Project thinks of my chances...

I have a number of science laboratories supporting a number of classes

that contain a number of exercises for each course. There are tasks that
must happen before each exercise and I am wondering if Project is a feasible
method to develop a way to track and plan for people, resource use and task
tracking.

 

[Aerial]

That's what I was looking for - the opinion of someone who knows more than me

Your reasons are along the lines of the thoughts that made me ask the question in the first place, I appreciate your honesty.

The "white board" approach is how it is handled now, we are looking to automate the process, so we will keep looking. And just for fun, I may keep working with Project.... don't know it yet, so that's the fun part

Thanks again!

 

[Conrad Santiago]

Hmmm...these are interesting comments, Mark. You are making me wonder if we are using the right tool for our project scheduling purposes. Using MSP, we are scheduling hundreds of projects a year. These projects have fixed due dates (although, many do slide). However, I do see limitations in MSP that would make my life easier. At times, I've felt using a white board to layout the projects would be more effective for me to plan in the future

We used MSP to set up project templates. Yes, for that MSP works well

Is there a production scheduling program you can recommend


----- Mark Durrenberger wrote: ----

I've seen people attempt to use MSP for non-project applications such a
scheduling facilities (training rooms, testing labs) In general, th
attempts fail. I can't point to any one big reason they fail but a numbe
of small ones

MSP is complicated to learn and stay effective with - you need to use it
lot
Projects by nature have changes in dates. Training/Classes do not (onc
scheduled they tend to stay put
When you "fix" a date in project, all sorts of other strange things ca
happen
Training such as what you describe is a mix of "project" work an
non-project, repetitive work MSP does not handle the non-project work in a
ideal wa

MSP is a project modeling tool. It appears you are looking for a productio
scheduling tool

Unless there is a strong reason not to, you might consider the "white board
calendar approach..

Mar





--
________________________________________________________
Mark Durrenberger, PM
Principal, Oak Associates, Inc, www.oakinc.co
"Advancing the Theory and Practice of Project Management
_______________________________________________________

The nicest thing about NOT planning is that failur
comes as a complete surprise and is not preceded b
a period of worry and depression

- Sir John Harvey-Jone

I have an idea and before I spend too much more time with it, I wonde

what someone me familiar with Microsoft Project thinks of my chances..that contain a number of exercises for each course. There are tasks tha
must happen before each exercise and I am wondering if Project is a feasibl
method to develop a way to track and plan for people, resource use and tas
tracking

 

[Mark Durrenberger]

Questions lead to questions...

First, No I don't know a good (or any) "production" scheduling tools - I
havn't been in that business for some time - Google away and see what you
come up with.

Now regarding your projects - what are the limitations you would like to
eliminate. There are lots of project gurus that hang out here. They or I
might be able to help.

Given the scope (size in terms of effort, duration, number of people,
network complexity etc.) of your projects, the white board (or Excel) may be
the way to go...

In my work with teams, we ALWAYS start with post-it notes to ID
deliverables/activities then sequence the post-its into a network. Some of
those projects make it to MSP - some don't need to... so it is, to some
extent a judgement call.

Does putting the project into MSP add value? If so do it. If not don't.
Unfortunatley, only you can answer that question.

Mark

Hmmm...these are interesting comments, Mark. You are making me wonder if

we are using the right tool for our project scheduling purposes. Using MSP,
we are scheduling hundreds of projects a year. These projects have fixed
due dates (although, many do slide). However, I do see limitations in MSP
that would make my life easier. At times, I've felt using a white board to
layout the projects would be more effective for me to plan in the future.

 

[Conrad Santiago]

Thanks for the input, Mark
The impression I got was that MSP was only good for one thing and that wasn't production scheduling, which is how we use it
I'll be the first to say, we don't use MSP as well as we could. We don't use Resource Leveling or any of the Reports or Project Central. I just this week starting keeping a baseline, although I'm not quite sure what I'll be doing with it

In relation to the white board suggestion, that came about because I need a simpler view. We have about 100 current projects on about 40 resources. Projects range from about 20 to 100 tasks. I need a view that can condense tasks graphically into one block, so that I can see where one project can be placed among the other projects, say, 3 to 6 months down the line
That is just one example. Another would be to be able to assign properties to projects, so I can filter tasks based on project properties

These are just some examples of why I found this thread interesting.

--Conrad Santiag

----- Mark Durrenberger wrote: ----

Questions lead to questions...:-

First, No I don't know a good (or any) "production" scheduling tools -
havn't been in that business for some time - Google away and see what yo
come up with

Now regarding your projects - what are the limitations you would like t
eliminate. There are lots of project gurus that hang out here. They or
might be able to help

Given the scope (size in terms of effort, duration, number of people
network complexity etc.) of your projects, the white board (or Excel) may b
the way to go..

In my work with teams, we ALWAYS start with post-it notes to I
deliverables/activities then sequence the post-its into a network. Some o
those projects make it to MSP - some don't need to... so it is, to som
extent a judgement call

Does putting the project into MSP add value? If so do it. If not don't
Unfortunatley, only you can answer that question

Mar

Hmmm...these are interesting comments, Mark. You are making me wonder i

we are using the right tool for our project scheduling purposes. Using MSP
we are scheduling hundreds of projects a year. These projects have fixe
due dates (although, many do slide). However, I do see limitations in MS
that would make my life easier. At times, I've felt using a white board t
layout the projects would be more effective for me to plan in the future

 

[Steve House]

Putting in my 2 cents - a due date is not the same thing as a fixed date.
Yes, the dates that things are due are certainly fixed by contract, mandate,
etc very often. IMHO, one of the objectives in using a PMIS software
application like MS Project , though, is *not* to just put up a list of
deadlines in a convenient spot but rather to build a dynamic model of the
process that allows you to figure out just exactly what it is you have to
*do* in order to achieve those due dates. It answers the question "If I
sequence my tasks like this, and assign those resources to them is that
manner, will I or won't I finish on or before the due date?" That's why I
don't like to see many fixed dates in project plans - I want a plan that is
a tool that serves as a reality check, a reliable predictor of future
performance. To that end if the way I'm setting up tasks and assigning
resources so far is going to create a situation where I'll come in later
than my deadline, I want Project to red flag that by telling me what date I
really will hit if I try to work the plan as it's presently been conceived.
That's why I maintain that even though your due dates are fixed in granite,
your project plan's representation of those dates should not be - if they
are, MS Project will happily lie to you, telling you you'll be finishing
right on time when in fact it is absolutely impossible for you to do so with
the plan as presently structured. You'll feel happy right up until shortly
before deadline and then wonder why Project says you should be done yet
there's still 6 weeks of work left to do.


--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hmmm...these are interesting comments, Mark. You are making me wonder if

we are using the right tool for our project scheduling purposes. Using MSP,
we are scheduling hundreds of projects a year. These projects have fixed
due dates (although, many do slide). However, I do see limitations in MSP
that would make my life easier. At times, I've felt using a white board to
layout the projects would be more effective for me to plan in the future.

 

[Steve House]

If you don't use resource leveling and the other resource management tools
you are seriously handicapping what MSP can do for you. Management is the
art of application of controls to achieve a desired result. What is the
main control you have in any project? The deployment of resources. You
need to build 100 widgets and you have a week to do it to make your contract
deadline? If a person can make 10 widgets a day, to make deadline you'll
need to hire, beg, borrow, kidnap 2 people. Your other options are to build
fewer widgets or negotiate an extension in your deadline. If you don't use
all the resource scheduling tools in project, you've just eliminated the
only tools that you have to let you figure out what to do to make the 100
widgets by the date they're required and your project is simply a list of
things to do and and the hope that we'll be able to do them on time - you've
ignored the controls you could use to actually *make* it happen.

--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Thanks for the input, Mark.
The impression I got was that MSP was only good for one thing and that

wasn't production scheduling, which is how we use it.

I'll be the first to say, we don't use MSP as well as we could. We don't

use Resource Leveling or any of the Reports or Project Central. I just this
week starting keeping a baseline, although I'm not quite sure what I'll be
doing with it.

In relation to the white board suggestion, that came about because I need

a simpler view. We have about 100 current projects on about 40 resources.
Projects range from about 20 to 100 tasks. I need a view that can condense
tasks graphically into one block, so that I can see where one project can be
placed among the other projects, say, 3 to 6 months down the line.

That is just one example. Another would be to be able to assign

properties to projects, so I can filter tasks based on project properties.

 

[Steve House]

The best way IMO is to use the deadline field introduced in Project 2000. A
milestone is an event, specifically the occurance of a state transition
(like the temperature at which a substance undergoes the state transition
from solid to liquid) in scientific terms. It occurs whenever it occurs and
IMO the project schedule in MSP should be a prediction of when the exit
state condition will be achieved if work proceeds as scheduled. Thus the
date where the milestone falls in the plan becomes a predictor of actual
performance. *Desired* performance is reflected by the deadline entry which
appears in the Gantt chart as a green arrowhead on the same line as the
milestone marker, thus you can see at a glance whether your plan is meeting
the requirements or not, whether the date the milestone WILL fall on is
before or after the date it *should* fall on.

Baselines are similar, but what they are for is measuring variances in the
plan as performed versus the plan as conceived. I set up a plan that has
the finish milestone falling on 1 Sep when the deadline is 15 Sep. Now we
start work and some tasks are delayed a few weeks. Now the finish is pushed
back 3 weeks, 21 Sep. The deadline shows the goal, the baseline shows the
original plan, and the current schedule (after posting actuals to date)
shows the forecast of what we're really gonna get if things continue as
they've been going.

--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Thanks for the input, Steve.
You have me thinking now. I'm having a hard time putting my arms around

how we would implement these concepts. I'll have to play this out in a
practice file.

Meanwhile, not to beat this thread to death, I have a question regarding

due dates as you describe them. You are saying do not pin down the
milestones that represent a due date. If your plan is not working and it
takes longer than the due date, the milestone will move. My question is how
do you record the actual due date (the contract due date). I suppose you
could set a baseline, which will show you the original position, but suppose
the client requests a new due date. Now, you have a baseline due date, the
actual due date, and a proposed due date. Do you reset the baseline? Do you
add a free floating milestone for the proposed due date?

Thanks,
Conrad Santiago

----- Steve House wrote: -----

Putting in my 2 cents - a due date is not the same thing as a fixed date.
Yes, the dates that things are due are certainly fixed by contract, mandate,
etc very often. IMHO, one of the objectives in using a PMIS software
application like MS Project , though, is *not* to just put up a list of
deadlines in a convenient spot but rather to build a dynamic model of the
process that allows you to figure out just exactly what it is you have to
*do* in order to achieve those due dates. It answers the question "If I
sequence my tasks like this, and assign those resources to them is that
manner, will I or won't I finish on or before the due date?" That's why I
don't like to see many fixed dates in project plans - I want a plan that is
a tool that serves as a reality check, a reliable predictor of future
performance. To that end if the way I'm setting up tasks and assigning
resources so far is going to create a situation where I'll come in later
than my deadline, I want Project to red flag that by telling me what date I
really will hit if I try to work the plan as it's presently been conceived.
That's why I maintain that even though your due dates are fixed in granite,
your project plan's representation of those dates should not be - if they
are, MS Project will happily lie to you, telling you you'll be finishing
right on time when in fact it is absolutely impossible for you to do so with
the plan as presently structured. You'll feel happy right up until shortly
before deadline and then wonder why Project says you should be done yet
there's still 6 weeks of work left to do.


--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hmmm...these are interesting comments, Mark. You are making me

wonder if
we are using the right tool for our project scheduling purposes. Using MSP,
we are scheduling hundreds of projects a year. These projects have fixed
due dates (although, many do slide). However, I do see limitations in MSP
that would make my life easier. At times, I've felt using a white board to
layout the projects would be more effective for me to plan in the future. applications such
as

scheduling facilities (training rooms, testing labs) In general, the
attempts fail. I can't point to any one big reason they fail

but a
number

of small ones:

need to use
it a

lot.
Projects by nature have changes in dates. Training/Classes do

not

(once
scheduled they tend to stay put)
When you "fix" a date in project, all sorts of other strange

things

can
happen.
Training such as what you describe is a mix of "project" work and
non-project, repetitive work MSP does not handle the

non-project work
in an

ideal way

for a
production

scheduling tool.

the "white
board"

calendar approach...
_________________________________________________________
Mark Durrenberger, PMP
Principal, Oak Associates, Inc, www.oakinc.com
"Advancing the Theory and Practice of Project Management"
________________________________________________________
comes as a complete surprise and is not preceded by
a period of worry and depression.
wonder
what someone me familiar with Microsoft Project thinks of my chances... classes
that contain a number of exercises for each course. There are

tasks

that
must happen before each exercise and I am wondering if Project

is a
feasible

method to develop a way to track and plan for people, resource

use
and task

tracking.