Sending Publisher file to printer

[ChrisB]

We are at the latter stages of producing a colour magazine which we are
sending to the printers. We are pdf'ing the entire files ourselves (in
chunks) so we can double-check all is OK.

We have Adobe software and know the settings for cmyk etc.

One major question though. Must we convert the file (within Publisher) to
cmyk before converting to PDF in CMYK? We noticed that when we do that, all
the background colours (where used) change radically - and we are not sure
if this will be a colour change at the printer end or whether we are just
viewing it incorrectly our end.

Is it necessary to change the Publisher file to CMYK. All the images are in
RGB and we are going to convert it to CMYK in Adobe.

Can anyone help with this?

many thanks


Chris

 

[ChrisB]

Secondly, I'm not sure if I know the difference between sending the printer
an Adobe file created in CMYK - or if it has to be produced via Distiller -
I don't know the difference or whether it makes a difference to the print
quality or not,

Any help would be appreciated.

I am assuming, at this stage, that I can ignore the Tools > Commercial
Printing etc. if I am transferring the Publisher file to CMYK in Adobe - I
do hope so!

Chris

 

[Ed Bennett]

Is it necessary to change the Publisher file to CMYK. All the images
are in RGB and we are going to convert it to CMYK in Adobe.

If you are using Adobe ProductName to change the file to CMYK, you shouldn't
need to do so in Publisher.

However, if you need to output CMYK PostScript from Publisher to get a CMYK
PDF, it is normally best to design in the CMYK colourspace.

Publisher's conversion of colours from RGB to CMYK is far from perfect.
I've found that better results can be had by exporting as an image,
re-importing, and then letting the image handler separate the image instead.
For some reason this gives more accurate colours (right hand knows not what
the left hand does?)

Anyhew, you may want to ask this question in the .prepress newsgroup.

 

[ChrisB]

Thanks Ed

I was hoping it wasn't necessary to do it in Publisher first.

Not sure what you mean by "output CMYK Postscript from Publisher"? I have
read about converting to postscript file first but not sure what the
difference/benefits are.

In a nutshell, we want to get the very best quality colour from the output
which we are sending to the printer for production. He has requested pdf as
they do not have Publisher. We are happy to do this but just need to know
the best way to do this for best possible quality. We are supplying
separate pdf's from advertisements that have been provided separately but we
still need to convert the actual file with our own ads in - this is a
magazine we are publishing.

Many thanks

I didn't realise there was a prepress newsgroup??

 

[ChrisB]

Ed - when we leave the Publisher file as RGB and simply convert to CMYK
using Adobe7, we still see colour changes?!

We're not sure if this will go back to the colours we see when we convert to
pdf in RGB once it's at the printers or whether we will have to send the
printer a RGB version.

Why do they need CMYK in the first place? The pdf's we have received from
advertisers (some of which have been publishing in all the big magazines)
are in RGB format - we assume.

Would it have been advisable to have started the Publisher file in CMYK
format in the first place so that the colours were right? It's too late for
that now but would be useful for the next one?

And we wonder if sending the printer RGB pdf will cause a problem?

I think we are going to have to send both to see what they can do - but
interested in knowing why we are seeing this problem?

Many thanks

 

[Ed Bennett]

Ed - when we leave the Publisher file as RGB and simply convert to
CMYK using Adobe7, we still see colour changes?!

This is because there are some colours that can simply not be displayed in
the CMYK colour space, and possibly also because Adobe's colour conversion
process isn't perfect.

Why do they need CMYK in the first place?

Monitors display using light. Light has three primary colours - Red, Green,
and Blue, which are the three colours used on your monitor. Any colour that
a monitor can display can be represented in terms of red, green, and blue
luminances (for convenience, normally from 0 to 255).

Inks are used in printers, not light. Printers use four primary colours -
Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and blacK. Not all colours can be created using
combinations of these inks. When printing from Windows, Publisher (and all
other Windows applications) pass colour information in the RGB colourspace,
and either the printer/driver or the Windows print subsystem handles the
conversion to CMYK. When sending your file to be commercially printed,
converting to CMYK means that you know what the colours are before the file
goes to press. If you send an RGB file, the printers have to do additional
work to convert the file to the CMYK colourspace before going to print,
meaning that you get charged extra. You will need to speak to your printer
to see if they will do this for you and if it will cost extra.

Would it have been advisable to have started the Publisher file in
CMYK format in the first place so that the colours were right? It's
too late for that now but would be useful for the next one?

That would have been a definite option, yes.

And we wonder if sending the printer RGB pdf will cause a problem?

See above.

 

[ChrisB]

Thanks Ed

Thanks for your detailed reply. Since sending this I have tried starting a
new Publisher file and the problem is the same with colours so not sure if I
would have resolved anything here.

If the printer can convert these, then this will be fine and we are going to
check with them.

We were hoping that what we were seeing would not be what was actually
printed at the other end but from your reply it sounds like this will not be
the case. Surely everyone must have this problem then? Or is this just a
Publisher 'feature'. Such a pain.

But thanks anyway. Appreciate the time you took to explain.

Chris

 

[ChrisB]

Sorry Ed - just one further question. Can the printer convert a RGB PDF or
would he need the Publisher file? We don't want to send the Publisher file
because we notice when we bounce it back and forth between ourselves, things
change! We need to send the printer pdf's so we can be absolutely sure that
it looks exactly as it should - apart from the colour of course!

Thanks Ed

Thanks for your detailed reply. Since sending this I have tried starting
a new Publisher file and the problem is the same with colours so not sure
if I would have resolved anything here.

If the printer can convert these, then this will be fine and we are going
to check with them.

We were hoping that what we were seeing would not be what was actually
printed at the other end but from your reply it sounds like this will not
be the case. Surely everyone must have this problem then? Or is this
just a Publisher 'feature'. Such a pain.

But thanks anyway. Appreciate the time you took to explain.

Chris

 

[Ed Bennett]

Sorry Ed - just one further question. Can the printer convert a RGB
PDF or would he need the Publisher file? We don't want to send the
Publisher file because we notice when we bounce it back and forth
between ourselves, things change! We need to send the printer pdf's
so we can be absolutely sure that it looks exactly as it should -
apart from the colour of course!

The printer would almost certainly work from a PDF file, but you'd have to
speak with him about that.

Publisher files should definitely not change when shuffled between users,
provided the versions match and all required fonts are installed.

 

[Ed Bennett]

Sorry, Edward, but the physicist in me *must* correct you.

And me doing a Physics degree as well!

Black -
and white - aren't colours, one is the absorption of colour, the
other the absence of it.

I thought that black was the absence of colour, and white is the presence of
all colours at once. (But we're talking optics, not inks)

The black ink is *not* used to create
colour; when printing black as part of an image it is made up of a
combination of the other colours. OK, to clarify, if I draw a square
and fill it black, it will be printed using the black tank; however a
black car in a photograph will be comprised of varying degrees of the
other colours.

I'm pretty sure that in any good photo printer, a black car will definitely
use black ink. (Many higher-end photo printers come with a special dark
black cartridge for photo printing, alongside the standard low-density cheap
black for text)

If I create an image/photograph and separate it into CMYK seps, there is
always a great deal present on the black channel. I can only assume that
the average printer driver will do a similar thing.

Sorry, to be a pedant but, as black isn't a colour, it cannot be a
primary.

I don't work in the printing industry, so I can't say what they describe
black ink as.

Black is definitely one of the four primary inks. I'm pretty sure it would
be described as a colour of ink, as otherwise it gets too annoyingly
pedantic and complicated for everyday conversation.

 

[ChrisB]

OK, great - so long as he can.

We do have same versions and mostly the same fonts - some differ but that
has not been the issue but for some reason, things move minutely - but
enough for it to be a problem.. No idea why but we have stopped sharing the
files now - or we check them very carefully when they come back!

Thanks again Ed

 

[Microsoft News]

Things CAN change when shifting files.
I have been working on Win2000/Pub2003 for almost 2 years, and created
hundreds of pages.
Last week I moved over to WinXP Prof and still the same Pub2003.
Sunddenly I get story overflow in a lot of articles.
Same font, same size, same spacing and everything, but I find that 2000 and
XP handles fonts differently!!!

Comments to color spaces:
I have been working in Pub CMYK all the time since I got 2003 version, then
printing to PS and distilling in Distiller.
Result is OK, but as said, the conversion is not perfect.
Some colors just can't print in CMYK, has nothing to do with Publisher in
particular.
Worse is that it really seems to put to much "red" color in CMYKing.
Light grey becomes pink! Red becomes RED! Blue becomes purple!

Over the last days I have experimented with working in plain RGB in Pub2003,
and let Acrobat 7.0 Prof do the conversion to CMYK.
Much better result, but use the PDF/X1a setting!
You should be aware though, that black text is not black, and that i
separates on all four plates.
You have to choose "other color" and put all RGB-values to 0,0,0 to get rich
black.
I have not yet managed to do that on frames/lines/fills! Does not work.

I love Publisher, but it still has its flaws.
Next version even better?

Regards
Terje

OK, great - so long as he can.

We do have same versions and mostly the same fonts - some differ but that
has not been the issue but for some reason, things move minutely - but
enough for it to be a problem.. No idea why but we have stopped sharing
the files now - or we check them very carefully when they come back!

Thanks again Ed