Shared borders - where do I start?

B

Brenda

I am just starting to create a website and after having started it, am
thinking that perhaps I should be using shared borders, as the tops, left
columns, and bottoms of all pages need to be the same.

I have been trying to read about Shared Borders, as I thought perhaps Shared
Borders is what I should use, although I have also read about Dynamic Web
Templates, and I'm not quite sure how Shared Borders compares to DWT. What
are the pros and cons of both? I don't want to make this job any harder than
it needs to be, so perhaps I'm overthinking the whole thing.

If I go with Shared Borders, do I make html pages for the includes, or do I
use gifs or jpgs? I tried to test without bothering this group, but when I
include html pages and then do a save and preview in the browser, I don't see
ANYTHING except a blank page, so I am apparently missing something.

I am using FrontPage 2003 and the server that I am using has FPE applied.

Thank you for any help you can give me.

Brenda
 
B

Brenda

Hi Raman,

I have created a sub directory (as a test website) and have the new
index.htm and a new _borders folder and put top.htm, left.htm and bottom.htm,
but I've run into a few problems with my first attempts:

1) Do I need to "size" the top, left and bottom htm's? For the top.htm, I
just have one graphic on the page, but the graphic isn't fitting into the
default size of the top border.

2) I sort of run into this same problem on the left.htm --again, I have a
table which isn't fitting into the default size of the left border.

3) Same for the bottom border. I have one graphic on bottom.htm, but the
graphic isn't large enough for the default bottom border.

Besides THOSE problems, when I save the new index.htm and try to preview it
in the browser, I'm not seeing ANYTHING except a blank page. I must be
missing something, but I can't figure out what I'm missing.

I think Shared Borders will make life a lot easier to keep all the pages the
same, once I get Shared Borders under control, but I can't quite seem to get
them working yet.

My server does have Front Page Extensions applied, so that won't be a problem.

Thank you,
Brenda
 
R

Raman Kambo

Brenda
the new folder you are working in ! have you converted it into a sub web?
Second question are you working on a local site or working live on the
server ?
Third does this happen on all the pages or only index

Try to create a new local web a single page apply shared borders
you need not create top.htm bottom.htm,
they will automatically come once you add shared borders

and another point frontpage is supposed to automatically adjust the border
size based on the content you have in borders

try it on a small new local test web brenda, it is supposed to work.,
 
B

Brenda

Hi Raman,

I guess I have not converted it into a sub web --

What I did was create a new directory named TEST, within my website, on my
computer, NOT on the server.

In that new directory, I created a new index.htm and created a directory
named _borders and put top.htm and bottom.htm and left.htm all within
_borders.

I realize now that I should probably be working in the root my website, not
creating a new directory within that website -- correct?

Brenda
 
R

Raman Kambo

Hey Brenda

Far as my knowledge goes although any one can correct me cos i am not a
complete professional.
It should work on pages in the root of web without any issues the root of
web should create a _borders folder automatically once you choose to add
shared borders and also htm files for borders should be automatically created.

and also frontpage is supposed to automatically resize the borders depending
on the content you have in the borders

thats one reason i insisted that you work on a new local web and check how
the enite shareborders thing works basically.

Take some time out, test it in the root of a new local web.

Thanks
Raman Kambo.
 
B

Brenda

Hi Raman,

Thank you so much - I'm creating "index-new.htm" at the root of my website
to see if it works... I just did a preview in browser (on my hard drive) and
I can see the shared borders, EXCEPT that I am not seeing my left border, for
some reason...

I'm sure I have done something wrong... it's getting closer... more testing
and more thinking about what I might have done wrong...

Again, my thanks ~
Brenda
 
B

Brenda

Hi Raman,

I am still not seeing the left border, and I don't understand why -

http://www.atlasfamilychiropracticonline.com/index-new.htm

The website that I am starting with and trying to recreate, with shared
borders is -

http://www.atlasfamilychiropracticonline.com/

Any thoughts as to why the left shared border isn't showing in the browser?
It also doesn't show in the browser on my hard drive. I can see it in the
DESIGN stage, but not in the browser. I don't quite understand what I'm
doing wrong.

Thank you,
Brenda
 
R

Raman Kambo

Another piece of information,
when ever you add borders frontpage adds a code to the htm page
if you have a top bottom and a left border it will add

<meta name="Microsoft Border" content="tlb, default">

in the coding.

if you add top bottom left and right border it will say

<meta name="Microsoft Border" content="tlrb, default">

so content="tlrb,

surely implies t=top l=left r=right b=bottom

so to confirm if the page is correct you can check the code if thats
correct, maybe you have nothing on the borders !

Anyways Best of luck
Bye for now.
 
B

Brenda

I just realized that NONE of my borders are showing up.... They are there in
DESIGN mode... what can I be missing?
 
R

Raman Kambo

type the following urls in the IE to check confirm if this is how the borders
should look
top border.
http://www.atlasfamilychiropracticonline.com/_borders/top.htm
left border. (that`s blank)
http://www.atlasfamilychiropracticonline.com/_borders/left.htm
bottom border. (i am not sure if this is what you want)
http://www.atlasfamilychiropracticonline.com/_borders/left.htm

Try publishing the _borders folder again.
nothing seems to be wrong with the code right now but let`s see if it works.

Raman Kambo
 
R

Rob Giordano \(Crash\)

You really should invest your time learning about DWTs and 86 the shared
borders idea. They're deprecated even in FP and are inflexible which you
will discover somewhere down the line. IOW...you can only have one style top
border on page or no top border on a page...etc.

--

Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage





|I just realized that NONE of my borders are showing up.... They are there
in
| DESIGN mode... what can I be missing?
 
R

Ronx

The left border comprises 2 comments:
<!--webbot bot="Include" u-include="../new/_borders/left.htm" tag="BODY"
-->
<!--webbot bot="Include" u-include="left.htm" tag="BODY" -->

The page
http://www.atlasfamilychiropracticonline.com/new/_borders/left.htm has
not been uploaded to the server, and you cannot include the same page
(left.htm) in itself.

Given the above,
http://www.atlasfamilychiropracticonline.com/index-new.htm is displaying
correctly.


--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.

http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
 
R

Ronx

Shared borders have been deprecated in FrontPage 2003, and removed in
Expression Web. They are often troublesome and leave very little
flexibility in page layout. The page is ALWAYS the full width of the
browser. In IE you get a 24px gap between the left border and content -
this does not appear in FireFox and Netscape.
Shared borders ARE include files, so you do not need includes to go into
them. On the other hand, using includes instead of using shared borders
gives you complete freedom in design and layout, and removes all the
problems associated with Shared Borders.
Neither Includes nor Shared Borders will work across subwebs, so each
subweb will need its own set of shared borders/include files.

Dynamic Web Templates can be considered as a super shared border, but
without any of the problems. They are the way forward. DWTs can be
used across subwebs, provided the DWT does not have any included files.
You can use as many DWTs in a web as you need different layouts.

--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.

http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
 
B

Brenda

Ronx,

I had started out trying to figure out DWT, but couldn't quite get started.
For example, can I take the index.htm of my current website

http://www.atlasfamilychiropracticonline.com/

and save it as a DWT and work from there? That's what I tried (multiple
times) yesterday, thinking that would be the way to start, but I couldn't
figure out how to edit the center portion of the page, because it's that
center portion where the graphic is on the index.htm page, that I want to
replace with text on each page.

I thought I probably had to name that section before I could edit the
section, but that was where I started get lost.

If you could point me to a website that explains DWT and how to create and
edit them, I would be most appreciative.

Thank you,
Brenda
 
B

Brenda

Thank you. I will do that. I have a DWT created and think I am figuring out
how to use it, but I know I need to learn a lot more about them. I would
like to have specific sections using specific fonts, etc, and I'm sure they
can do it -- once I learn.

Thank you again,
Brenda
 

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