Shauna Kelly's Basic Concepts OK for Mac users ?

[Norm]

Curious if any Mac users have read Shauna Kelly's Word tutorials and if
so their opinion as to there appropriateness for the Mac world. Shauna's
are written for the Word on Windows users.

I found them referenced in Clive's "Bend Word to Your Will" and from my
brief scan I liked the approach and format. I'm looking for a basic
refresher on Word from A to Z and that doesn't seem to be Word 2008
Help.

Are the differences between Word 2008 and Word for the Windows going to
result in Shauna's Word tutorials to not serve the purpose?

Thanks.

 

[Michel Bintener]

Hi Norm,

Shauna's articles are generally valid for Mac Word, too. The differences
between Word 2008 and earlier versions of Word for Windows are not as
pronounced as those between Word 2007 for Windows and earlier versions.
So just go ahead and read Shauna's articles; if you ever come across a
feature that does not appear to be working as expected, just post here
and someone will help you.

 

[Norm]

Shauna's articles are generally valid for Mac Word, too. The differences
between Word 2008 and earlier versions of Word for Windows are not as
pronounced as those between Word 2007 for Windows and earlier versions.
So just go ahead and read Shauna's articles; if you ever come across a
feature that does not appear to be working as expected, just post here
and someone will help you.

Thanks very much.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Shauna and I credit each other with working all this stuff out. But she
puts it on the website better

Both she and I will be meeting the poor unfortunate Microsoft Software
Architect who has responsibility for this area, next month.

The poor man has been trying to avoid us for ten years, without success

Now: What *I* told you, and what Shauna will tell you, should be exactly
the same, except that I explained the workings in a little more depth for
you.

So you should understand exactly the same things by reading Shauna's
articles as you did from reading mine. If you don't, the fault is probably
mine. Shauna and I say exactly the same thing, except that Shauna does not
talk about List Styles, because they were not developed when she wrote her
articles.

Shauna DOES talk about "Named List Templates", I believe. That technique
was developed jointly by Cindy Meister, Margaret Aldridge, Shauna Kelly and
myself. Microsoft built the idea into Word in Word 2003: that's what List
Styles actually are. In Word 2007/8, they fixed it so they sort-of work
right

Ah hem: That's what we want to see him about... There are one or two
opportunities for improvement...

Cheers

Thanks very much.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

Any rain in sight? Hope so.

Both she and I will be meeting the poor unfortunate Microsoft Software
Architect who has responsibility for this area, next month.

Hope he is resting up.

So you should understand exactly the same things by reading Shauna's
articles as you did from reading mine.

Or mine more likely. :-D

Ah hem: That's what we want to see him about... There are one or two
opportunities for improvement...

Is there a decimal placement after "one or two"

Good luck..... for all of us.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Any rain in sight? Hope so.

It rained all over Christmas in Sydney, where we didn't needed it, but it
carefully avoided the places where we do need it. I believe, and some
people agree with me, that Australia has begun the process of
desertification which is the result of global warming. This drought will
never break...

Is there a decimal placement after "one or two"

Yes. Our advice to him will be along the lines of "Remove some of the
flexibility, so users can use it without needing a university degree in the
subject.

The mechanism is basically fixed, now; and it works very well. But it is so
complicated that users cannot understand it, so most of the problems are
user error.

We would not lose anything if we were to say "There are three predefined
List Styles in every document. One for Headings, one for numbering, one for
Bullets. You can add others, but the three default styles are predefined.

Each predefined List Style uses its own set of paragraph styles: "Heading 1
to 9" for the headings, "List Number to List Number 9" for the numbering,
and "List Bullet to List Bullet 9" for the bullets. These definitions are
hard-coded into the List Styles, you cannot change them.

But you can change the properties of those styles to be anything you like.
On the other hand, you don't need to: the Document Themes will put all the
definitions right in a single click for you.

Use the "Chicago" Theme to set all the bullets, numbering, headings,
cross-references and citations styles into the formats required by the
Chicago University Press. Use the APA Theme to set all the formatting the
way APA likes it. Use "Microsoft" to set the styles up the way the
Microsoft Technical Publications Department requires.

Companies or individuals can add copy Themes and customise them to their
specific requirements."

If we did that, very few users would ever need to know how to define Lists,
List Styles, paragraph styles, table styles, citation styles, bullets, or
numbering. Just click here and the entire document goes right and stays
that way.

Most of the Word user misery in the world would go away. This is what
Themes were really intended for: that's why they were designed. Of course
the cocaine-crazed crack heads in Marketing got hold of the specification
and changed it all to focus on the vapid colour schemes from the Shock and
Horror school of Graphics Design.

But the winds of change are blowing in Microsoft. All you have to do when
the Marketing Weenies get out of hand now is simply say "Vista" firmly. The
room instantly goes silent and all the Marketing droids immediately discover
they have an urgent appointment in a different building. Clears the air
magnificently...

Cheers

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

This drought will
never break...

Well, I hope you are wrong but given some of the changes in USA climate
I suspect "we" will see many climates altered.

Yes. Our advice to him will be along the lines of "Remove some of the
flexibility, so users can use it without needing a university degree in the
subject.

Found that interesting.

You lost me a bit on Themes since you said to stay away from them and
I've followed orders.

But I like the Chicago, APA, MS Tech theme approach. That makes sense.

Themes now seem a confusing mess to this user.

Thanks.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

You lost me a bit on Themes since you said to stay away from them and
I've followed orders.

But I like the Chicago, APA, MS Tech theme approach. That makes sense.

Themes now seem a confusing mess to this user.

That's because they are. Currently, "Themes" are of no use whatsoever.
Their ONLY effect in current versions of Word is to screw up the document's
formatting. They do this so badly that the only way to recover such a
document is to save it as plain text, removing all formatting, and start
again.

However, under the hood, Themes are simply an implementation of Cascading
Style Sheets. They are potentially even more powerful than CSS.

Every website in the world is built using CSS: It is a seriously good idea.

Cascading Style Sheets are what "Templates" in Word set out to be. At one
time, Word Templates were extremely powerful and useful, and every document
professional used them vigorously.

But as usual, the Marketing Department could not understand them, and forced
the product development teams to dumb them down to only the things the
marketing weenies could understand.

This continued through several versions, until templates became essentially
useless, as they are in their current form. Document professionals tend to
ignore templates these days because they're broken.

Put what YOU want in YOUR Normal.dotm, and abandon all hope of being able to
make it available to other users. At least YOUR copy of Word will work
right. That's what I do.

However, Cascading Style Sheets remain a seriously good idea. They are
actually a cut-down of a larger object named an XSLT (XML Style and Language
Transform), colloquially called a "Style Sheet". They were cut-down because
HTML could not do many of the functions an XSLT requires.

Websites are now generally built in XML, which can do these things. So
XSLTs are all the rage. And "Themes" are simply the beginnings of an
implementation of XSLTs.

In Word 2007, you can get in under the hood and attach the various bits of
an XSLT to a document. Best do it programmatically, because it's complex,
but it can be done. In Word 2010, there is more of this goodness to come.

Now, PROVIDED nobody tells Marketing about Themes, ultimately the product
group will be able to bring "Templates" back again, in a form in which they
are both useful and work. But if Marketing finds out about them, Themes
will be broken before they even get out of the factory.

Because you can't do anything without a budget, and you can't get a budget
any place but Marketing, this work has to proceed slowly. The alternative
is to ask Marketing for a budget, and if you do that, they'll break it.

Themes are currently not useful, and they will stuff up the document, so
don't use them. But keep quiet about them also: so long as Marketing never
finds them, they will eventually be more useful than almost any other
feature in Word.

Cheers

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Themes are currently not useful, and they will stuff up the document, so
don't use them. But keep quiet about them also: so long as Marketing never
finds them, they will eventually be more useful than almost any other
feature in Word.

Interesting. Thanks for the backgrounding.

BTW, am I always in a "Theme" even though I don't know it?

Thanks.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Interesting. Thanks for the backgrounding.

BTW, am I always in a "Theme" even though I don't know it?

I believe the answer to that is "Yes". In the same way that there is no way
to have a paragraph that has "no style", there is no way to have a document
that has "no theme".

It must always be there, otherwise Word can't read the document. But
whether the properties defined in the theme are transferred into the
document, or simply acted upon by Word, I am not sure.

Cheers

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

It must always be there, otherwise Word can't read the document. But
whether the properties defined in the theme are transferred into the
document, or simply acted upon by Word, I am not sure.

Maybe my search of their site re: this will turn up an answer.

Thanks,

Norm

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

So you should understand exactly the same things by reading Shauna's
articles as you did from reading mine. If you don't, the fault is probably
mine. Shauna and I say exactly the same thing, except that Shauna does not
talk about List Styles, because they were not developed when she wrote her
articles.

I read the first 5 of Shauna's Basic Concepts.

But in studying her Basic Concept 5 dealing with bullet paragraph
styles, I thought I'd find the exact same concepts as in your lists in
our thread on hanging indents.

However, she did not talk about List Styles unless I'm missing it and I
can't find the List Style to which her bullet paragraph style belongs.

Do bullet paragraph styles have list styles and visa versa like numbered
lists?

See:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/concepts/bullets/index.html


Thanks,

Norm

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

It is sometimes necessary to remember what an email says from one episode to
the next. Or so my good friend The Deputy Commissioner of Taxation would
have me believe.

He and I maintain a vigorous correspondence, every second one of his
missives seemingly impugning my memory...

I said yesterday that Shauna won't describe List Styles, since they had not
been invented when she wrote her articles. She will describe "Named List
Templates", which were the precursor.

Cheers

Hi John:



I read the first 5 of Shauna's Basic Concepts.

But in studying her Basic Concept 5 dealing with bullet paragraph
styles, I thought I'd find the exact same concepts as in your lists in
our thread on hanging indents.

However, she did not talk about List Styles unless I'm missing it and I
can't find the List Style to which her bullet paragraph style belongs.

Do bullet paragraph styles have list styles and visa versa like numbered
lists?

See:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/concepts/bullets/index.html


Thanks,

Norm

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

He and I maintain a vigorous correspondence, every second one of his
missives seemingly impugning my memory...

I like it...... I assume you return the favor.

I said yesterday that Shauna won't describe List Styles, since they had not
been invented when she wrote her articles. She will describe "Named List
Templates", which were the precursor.

Ah.... so I shouldn't spend time on that tutorial of hers. Got it.

In Word 2008 then there are Bullet paragraph styles linked to list
styles.

Thanks,

Norm