Some fonts fail to embed correctly Word 2003

[bricky]

I have spent days troubleshooting this issue to the extent that I am now
wondering if this is a 2003 bug.

The original document now has just two fonts used (for testing purposes).
Both are legitimate and according to the MS font extension "editable
embedding allowed". However one "Bell Gothic Black" fails to work when
loading the file on a different machine.

This also happens to a few other fonts i have tried (I should point out that
they are TrueType with .ttf extensions. I am aware of the .otf issue)

The font appears to be encoded by word on save as you can see the filesize
grow depending on if I include one, two or three etc. When the file is opened
however the font substitution shows that the supposedly embedded font is
missing.

More confusing is that when opening the document on Word 2000 (on a
different machine again) the main font (cg times) fails but some of the
others work!

Installing the fonts on the Word 2000 machine and resaving the document fixs
the issue for Word 2000 (tested by deleteing the fonts on that machine) but
when this is transfered back to the original machine the Bell Gothic (or
whatever) fails to load. I have tried a brand new single page document with
the same results. I have also tried using 3 different file versions of the
same font from different years! (scavenged from different apps. we have)

I have now tested this on a non corporate (standalone, different machine,
again) version of word 2003 in the hope that it was something to do with the
install or license. Not so.

The problem is that the publisher (which we cannot change) will only output
this file, a book, using a word doc with fonts embedded so we cannot just
send a copy of the font file for them to install.

Any similar experiences or bug knowledge or other solutions would be very
much appreciated as we are desperate. Change the font! I hear..... it all
ties in with the rest of the artwork etc. and seems to affect more than just
Bell Gothic.

 

[Peter T. Daniels]

It could have to do with the licensing of the font itself. When you
bought the font, what sort of agreement did you sign? It may well be a
font that is coded not to be transferable from one computer to
another, so that your publisher may have to buy a copy of the font to
be resident on its system.

 

[macropod]

Hi bricky,

If you want to be sure the printer reproduces the document exactly as you have it, it's best to send it as a PDF. If you don't have
a PDF distiller, a workable alternative is to install the driver for a postscript printer, then print to file using that print
driver. The resulting '.prn' file will actually be a postscript file, which any decent print house can handle - the most you might
need to do is to change the file's extension from '.prn' to '.ps'.

 

[bricky]

Many thanks for the replies

macropod....Yes that's exactly what I would like to do however the publisher
will only accept word as they add the copyright pages and other bits at the
back then send it on to their printer with fonts embedded

Peter:

Both are legitimate and according to the MS font extension "editable
embedding allowed".

All of the versions I tried came in with various licensed commercial apps.
we have. Beth Gothic has been around since CorelDraw4 I think! Also as
described word 2000 has no issue with the typeface it is only when we use
word 2003 (which of course the publisher has) that it fails.

Anything other ideas?

Hi bricky,

If you want to be sure the printer reproduces the document exactly as you have it, it's best to send it as a PDF. If you don't have
a PDF distiller, a workable alternative is to install the driver for a postscript printer, then print to file using that print
driver. The resulting '.prn' file will actually be a postscript file, which any decent print house can handle - the most you might
need to do is to change the file's extension from '.prn' to '.ps'.

--
Cheers
macropod
[Microsoft MVP - Word]

I have spent days troubleshooting this issue to the extent that I am now
wondering if this is a 2003 bug.

The original document now has just two fonts used (for testing purposes).
Both are legitimate and according to the MS font extension "editable
embedding allowed". However one "Bell Gothic Black" fails to work when
loading the file on a different machine.

This also happens to a few other fonts i have tried (I should point out that
they are TrueType with .ttf extensions. I am aware of the .otf issue)

The font appears to be encoded by word on save as you can see the filesize
grow depending on if I include one, two or three etc. When the file is opened
however the font substitution shows that the supposedly embedded font is
missing.

More confusing is that when opening the document on Word 2000 (on a
different machine again) the main font (cg times) fails but some of the
others work!

Installing the fonts on the Word 2000 machine and resaving the document fixs
the issue for Word 2000 (tested by deleteing the fonts on that machine) but
when this is transfered back to the original machine the Bell Gothic (or
whatever) fails to load. I have tried a brand new single page document with
the same results. I have also tried using 3 different file versions of the
same font from different years! (scavenged from different apps. we have)

I have now tested this on a non corporate (standalone, different machine,
again) version of word 2003 in the hope that it was something to do with the
install or license. Not so.

The problem is that the publisher (which we cannot change) will only output
this file, a book, using a word doc with fonts embedded so we cannot just
send a copy of the font file for them to install.

Any similar experiences or bug knowledge or other solutions would be very
much appreciated as we are desperate. Change the font! I hear..... it all
ties in with the rest of the artwork etc. and seems to affect more than just
Bell Gothic.

.

 

[macropod]

Hi bricky,

If the publisher is editing the file and that's where it's losing the font data, then that's probably where the problem lies and
there's nothing you can do about it at your end. Maybe the publisher has a faulty Word installation, their Wordinstallation isn't
fully updated or, perhaps, that's just the way Word 2003 works with embedded fonts. I don't have a copy, so I can't test the app
here.

However, I do note that Bell Gothic Black (ttf) -which I do have - was last updated by Bitstream on 17 December 2003 so, if your's
pre-dates that, it may be there was an incompatability with Word 2003 that was fixed in the latest release.

--
Cheers
macropod
[Microsoft MVP - Word]

Many thanks for the replies

macropod....Yes that's exactly what I would like to do however the publisher
will only accept word as they add the copyright pages and other bits at the
back then send it on to their printer with fonts embedded

Peter:

Both are legitimate and according to the MS font extension "editable
embedding allowed".

All of the versions I tried came in with various licensed commercial apps.
we have. Beth Gothic has been around since CorelDraw4 I think! Also as
described word 2000 has no issue with the typeface it is only when we use
word 2003 (which of course the publisher has) that it fails.

Anything other ideas?

Hi bricky,

If you want to be sure the printer reproduces the document exactly as you have it, it's best to send it as a PDF. If you don't
have
a PDF distiller, a workable alternative is to install the driver for a postscript printer, then print to file using that print
driver. The resulting '.prn' file will actually be a postscript file, which any decent print house can handle - the most you
might
need to do is to change the file's extension from '.prn' to '.ps'.

--
Cheers
macropod
[Microsoft MVP - Word]

I have spent days troubleshooting this issue to the extent that I am now
wondering if this is a 2003 bug.

The original document now has just two fonts used (for testing purposes).
Both are legitimate and according to the MS font extension "editable
embedding allowed". However one "Bell Gothic Black" fails to work when
loading the file on a different machine.

This also happens to a few other fonts i have tried (I should point out that
they are TrueType with .ttf extensions. I am aware of the .otf issue)

The font appears to be encoded by word on save as you can see the filesize
grow depending on if I include one, two or three etc. When the file is opened
however the font substitution shows that the supposedly embedded font is
missing.

More confusing is that when opening the document on Word 2000 (on a
different machine again) the main font (cg times) fails but some of the
others work!

Installing the fonts on the Word 2000 machine and resaving the document fixs
the issue for Word 2000 (tested by deleteing the fonts on that machine) but
when this is transfered back to the original machine the Bell Gothic (or
whatever) fails to load. I have tried a brand new single page document with
the same results. I have also tried using 3 different file versions of the
same font from different years! (scavenged from different apps. we have)

I have now tested this on a non corporate (standalone, different machine,
again) version of word 2003 in the hope that it was something to do with the
install or license. Not so.

The problem is that the publisher (which we cannot change) will only output
this file, a book, using a word doc with fonts embedded so we cannot just
send a copy of the font file for them to install.

Any similar experiences or bug knowledge or other solutions would be very
much appreciated as we are desperate. Change the font! I hear..... it all
ties in with the rest of the artwork etc. and seems to affect more than just
Bell Gothic.

.

 

[bricky]

Hi apologies for the delay the mail on reply isn't working for me from this
forum.

After your suggestions we purchased the latest file version which I am
pleased to say embeds correctly albeit with print only rights (still have no
idea if the older versions were having their rights misreported by the ms
font extension). So I suspect that if a font file does not have all the
correct attributes pertaining to its rights management then the over zealous
word 2003 font handler just ignores that particular font. Very unhelpful
indeed, no warnings, errors or reasons given and as stated according to the
extension info. the other files should have been fine. Many of the type shops
also fail to provide any information regarding a particular fonts
"embeddability" as MS call it, prepurchase. During the course of this problem
I have found several other pre 2000 faces that do not embed despite their
supposed licensing and embedding level.

Regarding:If the publisher is editing the file and that's where it's losing
the font data...

No we kept checking locally before sending the files and word 2003 just
doesn't embed the fonts correctly (2000 does!).

Anyway as a consequence of the publisher understanding nothing about how
headers and footers work and sending files backwards and forwards they have
now let slip in an email that the final output goes to the printer as PDF!!!
Having previously said that it goes as word. HOORAH! Finally some sense. Now
all we have to do is keep correcting the proofs (they keep screwing up,
changing titles to Ariel and randomly messing up other parts of our carefully
formed master! At least this thing now has some chance of being printed
properly.

Many thanks for all the input. It gave us the extra push we needed to spend
more!

Hi bricky,

If the publisher is editing the file and that's where it's losing the font data, then that's probably where the problem lies and
there's nothing you can do about it at your end. Maybe the publisher has a faulty Word installation, their Wordinstallation isn't
fully updated or, perhaps, that's just the way Word 2003 works with embedded fonts. I don't have a copy, so I can't test the app
here.

However, I do note that Bell Gothic Black (ttf) -which I do have - was last updated by Bitstream on 17 December 2003 so, if your's
pre-dates that, it may be there was an incompatability with Word 2003 that was fixed in the latest release.

--
Cheers
macropod
[Microsoft MVP - Word]

Many thanks for the replies

macropod....Yes that's exactly what I would like to do however the publisher
will only accept word as they add the copyright pages and other bits at the
back then send it on to their printer with fonts embedded

Peter:

Both are legitimate and according to the MS font extension "editable
embedding allowed".

All of the versions I tried came in with various licensed commercial apps.
we have. Beth Gothic has been around since CorelDraw4 I think! Also as
described word 2000 has no issue with the typeface it is only when we use
word 2003 (which of course the publisher has) that it fails.

Anything other ideas?

Hi bricky,

If you want to be sure the printer reproduces the document exactly as you have it, it's best to send it as a PDF. If you don't
have
a PDF distiller, a workable alternative is to install the driver for a postscript printer, then print to file using that print
driver. The resulting '.prn' file will actually be a postscript file, which any decent print house can handle - the most you
might
need to do is to change the file's extension from '.prn' to '.ps'.

--
Cheers
macropod
[Microsoft MVP - Word]


I have spent days troubleshooting this issue to the extent that I am now
wondering if this is a 2003 bug.

The original document now has just two fonts used (for testing purposes).
Both are legitimate and according to the MS font extension "editable
embedding allowed". However one "Bell Gothic Black" fails to work when
loading the file on a different machine.

This also happens to a few other fonts i have tried (I should point out that
they are TrueType with .ttf extensions. I am aware of the .otf issue)

The font appears to be encoded by word on save as you can see the filesize
grow depending on if I include one, two or three etc. When the file is opened
however the font substitution shows that the supposedly embedded font is
missing.

More confusing is that when opening the document on Word 2000 (on a
different machine again) the main font (cg times) fails but some of the
others work!

Installing the fonts on the Word 2000 machine and resaving the document fixs
the issue for Word 2000 (tested by deleteing the fonts on that machine) but
when this is transfered back to the original machine the Bell Gothic (or
whatever) fails to load. I have tried a brand new single page document with
the same results. I have also tried using 3 different file versions of the
same font from different years! (scavenged from different apps. we have)

I have now tested this on a non corporate (standalone, different machine,
again) version of word 2003 in the hope that it was something to do with the
install or license. Not so.

The problem is that the publisher (which we cannot change) will only output
this file, a book, using a word doc with fonts embedded so we cannot just
send a copy of the font file for them to install.

Any similar experiences or bug knowledge or other solutions would be very
much appreciated as we are desperate. Change the font! I hear..... it all
ties in with the rest of the artwork etc. and seems to affect more than just
Bell Gothic.


.

.