Space being pushed to next line at end of sentence in Word 2007

[displaya]

I'm having a problem in Word 2007 with the second space after a period being
wrapped to the first space on the next line. I cannot use one space after a
period. I found this problem addressed in this forum by going to
Tools>Compatibility, but I can't find this in Word 2007. This is an old
document that may have originally been created in WordPerfect.

 

[grammatim]

Office Button > Word Options > Advanced > Layout Options (at the very
end) > uncheck "Wrap trailing spaces to next line" (the very last
one).

But why "cannot" you use one space after a period?

 

[displaya]

The format requirements for the document I am working on specify two spaces
at the ends of sentences.

Anyway, I'm old school (or maybe just old) and one space just looks wrong.

 

[grammatim]

So is your problem solved?

It could only "look wrong" if you're using a mono spaced font like
Courier. Printed books don't put extra space after a period.

 

[displaya]

Yes, thank you, your advice worked perfectly.

The document I'm working on is required to be in Courier font.

Regarding other, proportional fonts, I guess I'm just hidebound and can't
get past what I learned many years ago in school. It's like the use of the
word "lay" where I think "lie" should be used. When I learned grammar, "lay"
was a transitive verb (Lay the book on the table.), not to be confused with
"lie," an intransitive verb (I think I'll lie down.). In current usage,
"lay" is used much more than "lie," so realistically I understand that the
language has evolved an I should accept that "lay" has become correct.
Nevertheless, whenever I hear or see it "misused," it grates on me and seems
incorrect. It's the same with one space between sentences. In situations
that I can control, I'll continue to use two spaces between sentences, but I
will accept one space as acceptable [barely ;o)] where it is not my choice.
Same with colons, actually.

Sorry to go on and on about this. I guess I needed someplace to explain m
attitude about this, and you happened to present an opportunity. Don't feel
that you need to reply to this rant, unless I've hit on one of your pet
peeves too!

 

[grammatim]

There's no reason to _change_ the way you use "lay" and "lie" (as long
as they still come naturally to you) -- and note that you'll hardly
ever misunderstand someone who "misuses" them!

But you'd have to go a long, long way back in the history of English
typography to find examples where it was "correct" to put more space
after a period than between words -- and there's a good reason for
that: a period already comes with lots of blank space above it, so it
gives the visual impression of extra space after the sentence anyway.

Yes, thank you, your advice worked perfectly.

The document I'm working on is required to be in Courier font.  

Regarding other, proportional fonts, I guess I'm just hidebound and can't
get past what I learned many years ago in school.  It's like the use ofthe
word "lay" where I think "lie" should be used.  When I learned grammar,"lay"
was a transitive verb (Lay the book on the table.), not to be confused with
"lie," an intransitive verb (I think I'll lie down.).  In current usage,
"lay" is used much more than "lie," so realistically I understand that the
language has evolved an I should accept that "lay" has become correct.  
Nevertheless, whenever I hear or see it "misused," it grates on me and seems
incorrect.  It's the same with one space between sentences.  In situations
that I can control, I'll continue to use two spaces between sentences, but I
will accept one space as acceptable [barely  ;o)] where it is not my choice.  
Same with colons, actually.

Sorry to go on and on about this.  I guess I needed someplace to explain m
attitude about this, and you happened to present an opportunity.  Don'tfeel
that you need to reply to this rant, unless I've hit on one of your pet
peeves too!

So is your problem solved?

It could only "look wrong" if you're using a mono spaced font like
Courier. Printed books don't put extra space after a period.

 

[CyberTaz]

Just to push the envelope a bit with good-natured intentions...

In truth, *space* between sentences _is_ and always has been the typesetting
standard... But in typesetting the amount of space can be varied. The only
reason "pressing the spacebar twice" was implemented was as a workaround
necessitated by the mono-spaced limitation of the typewriter.... Primarily,
I suspect, because the quality of spectacle lenses wasn't much better than
that of the typewriters, themselves. A sentence ending with a wide character
followed by another that began with a wide character caused a crowding
effect which was difficult to read if separated by only one press of the
spacebar [a tool BTW that typesetters do not have ].

The "two spaces between sentences" hack was adopted because the gapping was
more acceptable than the crowding. Unfortunately, many governments &
monolithic major corporations adopted that hack as a matter of written
policy in many cases. Like so many other archaic "standards" nobody has
taken the time to revisit & rewrite their policy since proportional spacing
of text on the pc has all but replaced the typewriter. Hence, the perversion
of typeset quality text by the inclusion of inappropriate additional space
lingers on & the finesse of adroitly inserting em & en spaces - not to
mention the 6-8 other types of special spaces used in typesetting but not
even available in Word - utterly eludes the grasp of modern day key tappers.

You seem to be quite up on grammar, so think back to the days when you were
first taught to print sentences with your good 'ol #2 pencil... And keeping
in mind, of course, that handwritten documents did precede both typeset as
well as typed. Did any of your teachers ever even suggest -- let alone
insist -- that there should be *2* spaces between them? And exactly how
would one create *2* spaces in in a handwritten document in the first
place?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

But two spaces after periods and other terminal punctuation would still be
appropriate in monospaced fonts such as Courier New, which displaya did
mention using.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Just to push the envelope a bit with good-natured intentions...

In truth, *space* between sentences _is_ and always has been the
typesetting
standard... But in typesetting the amount of space can be varied. The only
reason "pressing the spacebar twice" was implemented was as a workaround
necessitated by the mono-spaced limitation of the typewriter....
Primarily,
I suspect, because the quality of spectacle lenses wasn't much better than
that of the typewriters, themselves. A sentence ending with a wide
character
followed by another that began with a wide character caused a crowding
effect which was difficult to read if separated by only one press of the
spacebar [a tool BTW that typesetters do not have ].

The "two spaces between sentences" hack was adopted because the gapping
was
more acceptable than the crowding. Unfortunately, many governments &
monolithic major corporations adopted that hack as a matter of written
policy in many cases. Like so many other archaic "standards" nobody has
taken the time to revisit & rewrite their policy since proportional
spacing
of text on the pc has all but replaced the typewriter. Hence, the
perversion
of typeset quality text by the inclusion of inappropriate additional space
lingers on & the finesse of adroitly inserting em & en spaces - not to
mention the 6-8 other types of special spaces used in typesetting but not
even available in Word - utterly eludes the grasp of modern day key
tappers.

You seem to be quite up on grammar, so think back to the days when you
were
first taught to print sentences with your good 'ol #2 pencil... And
keeping
in mind, of course, that handwritten documents did precede both typeset as
well as typed. Did any of your teachers ever even suggest -- let alone
insist -- that there should be *2* spaces between them? And exactly how
would one create *2* spaces in in a handwritten document in the first
place?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

It's the same with one space between sentences. In situations
that I can control, I'll continue to use two spaces between sentences,
but I
will accept one space as acceptable [barely ;o)] where it is not my
choice.

 

[displaya]

Oh, I won't be changing my use of "lay" and "lie." My struggle is to not
have a knee-jerk reaction that those who misuse them are uneducated. While
you are correct that such usage does not cause trouble with understanding,
all the dictionaries that I have seen still consider the use of "lay" for
"lie" to be "nonstandard." I don't think being able to understand what
someone means is necessarily the measure of good English.

That being said (and very snottily, too), I'm ready to concede regarding the
spacing between sentences. The replies from you and CyberTaz have
overwhelmed my hidebound nature. I may not be able to keep myself from using
2 spaces (as evidenced in this message), but I guess I'll accept it without
prejudice in others.

There's no reason to _change_ the way you use "lay" and "lie" (as long
as they still come naturally to you) -- and note that you'll hardly
ever misunderstand someone who "misuses" them!

But you'd have to go a long, long way back in the history of English
typography to find examples where it was "correct" to put more space
after a period than between words -- and there's a good reason for
that: a period already comes with lots of blank space above it, so it
gives the visual impression of extra space after the sentence anyway.

Yes, thank you, your advice worked perfectly.

The document I'm working on is required to be in Courier font.

Regarding other, proportional fonts, I guess I'm just hidebound and can't
get past what I learned many years ago in school. It's like the use of the
word "lay" where I think "lie" should be used. When I learned grammar, "lay"
was a transitive verb (Lay the book on the table.), not to be confused with
"lie," an intransitive verb (I think I'll lie down.). In current usage,
"lay" is used much more than "lie," so realistically I understand that the
language has evolved an I should accept that "lay" has become correct.
Nevertheless, whenever I hear or see it "misused," it grates on me and seems
incorrect. It's the same with one space between sentences. In situations
that I can control, I'll continue to use two spaces between sentences, but I
will accept one space as acceptable [barely ;o)] where it is not my choice.
Same with colons, actually.

Sorry to go on and on about this. I guess I needed someplace to explain m
attitude about this, and you happened to present an opportunity. Don't feel
that you need to reply to this rant, unless I've hit on one of your pet
peeves too!

So is your problem solved?

It could only "look wrong" if you're using a mono spaced font like
Courier. Printed books don't put extra space after a period.

On May 5, 10:47 am, displaya <[email protected]>
wrote:
The format requirements for the document I am working on specify two spaces
at the ends of sentences.

Anyway, I'm old school (or maybe just old) and one space just looks wrong..

:
Office Button > Word Options > Advanced > Layout Options (at the very
end) > uncheck "Wrap trailing spaces to next line" (the very last
one).

But why "cannot" you use one space after a period?

On May 4, 4:45 pm, displaya <[email protected]>
wrote:
I'm having a problem in Word 2007 with the second space after a period being
wrapped to the first space on the next line. I cannot use one space after a
period. I found this problem addressed in this forum by going to
Tools>Compatibility, but I can't find this in Word 2007. This is an old
document that may have originally been created in WordPerfect.--

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I'm afraid I will continue to regard those who misuse "lay" and "lie" as
uneducated. And when I see the misuse in published materials, I also accuse
the publisher of employing a substandard copy editor.

The issue of spacing after punctuation is far less clear-cut than some
people would have you believe. If you look at letterpress books from the
nineteenth century, you may very well find more space at the ends of
sentences than between words in the sentences--and that occurs in books
printed long before the typewriter was dreamed of. That said, I do use only
one space myself, though if I were forced to use Courier New, I would try to
force myself to fall back on my typewriter skills (and that would include
using straight quotation marks, since the "curly" ones in Courier look
silly).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Oh, I won't be changing my use of "lay" and "lie." My struggle is to not
have a knee-jerk reaction that those who misuse them are uneducated.
While
you are correct that such usage does not cause trouble with understanding,
all the dictionaries that I have seen still consider the use of "lay" for
"lie" to be "nonstandard." I don't think being able to understand what
someone means is necessarily the measure of good English.

That being said (and very snottily, too), I'm ready to concede regarding
the
spacing between sentences. The replies from you and CyberTaz have
overwhelmed my hidebound nature. I may not be able to keep myself from
using
2 spaces (as evidenced in this message), but I guess I'll accept it
without
prejudice in others.

There's no reason to _change_ the way you use "lay" and "lie" (as long
as they still come naturally to you) -- and note that you'll hardly
ever misunderstand someone who "misuses" them!

But you'd have to go a long, long way back in the history of English
typography to find examples where it was "correct" to put more space
after a period than between words -- and there's a good reason for
that: a period already comes with lots of blank space above it, so it
gives the visual impression of extra space after the sentence anyway.

Yes, thank you, your advice worked perfectly.

The document I'm working on is required to be in Courier font.

Regarding other, proportional fonts, I guess I'm just hidebound and
can't
get past what I learned many years ago in school. It's like the use of
the
word "lay" where I think "lie" should be used. When I learned grammar,
"lay"
was a transitive verb (Lay the book on the table.), not to be confused
with
"lie," an intransitive verb (I think I'll lie down.). In current
usage,
"lay" is used much more than "lie," so realistically I understand that
the
language has evolved an I should accept that "lay" has become correct.
Nevertheless, whenever I hear or see it "misused," it grates on me and
seems
incorrect. It's the same with one space between sentences. In
situations
that I can control, I'll continue to use two spaces between sentences,
but I
will accept one space as acceptable [barely ;o)] where it is not my
choice.
Same with colons, actually.

Sorry to go on and on about this. I guess I needed someplace to
explain m
attitude about this, and you happened to present an opportunity. Don't
feel
that you need to reply to this rant, unless I've hit on one of your pet
peeves too!



:
So is your problem solved?

It could only "look wrong" if you're using a mono spaced font like
Courier. Printed books don't put extra space after a period.

On May 5, 10:47 am, displaya <[email protected]>
wrote:
The format requirements for the document I am working on specify
two spaces
at the ends of sentences.

Anyway, I'm old school (or maybe just old) and one space just looks
wrong..

:
Office Button > Word Options > Advanced > Layout Options (at the
very
end) > uncheck "Wrap trailing spaces to next line" (the very last
one).

But why "cannot" you use one space after a period?

On May 4, 4:45 pm, displaya <[email protected]>
wrote:
I'm having a problem in Word 2007 with the second space after a
period being
wrapped to the first space on the next line. I cannot use one
space after a
period. I found this problem addressed in this forum by going
to
Tools>Compatibility, but I can't find this in Word 2007. This
is an old
document that may have originally been created in
WordPerfect.--

 

[grammatim]

Are you saying you were being snotty, or I was? As a linguist, I
understand that there are many different "good Englishes." As Suzanne
notes, if you see misused "lay" and "lie" in a formal publication,
then your opinion of the publisher should go down. But in casual
conversation, or if you're cheering at a ball game, or in many other
social situations, other varieties of English are appropriate and
"talking like a book" isn't. The "goodness" (i.e., appropriateness) of
your language always depends on the context where it's used.

Oh, I won't be changing my use of "lay" and "lie."  My struggle is to not
have a knee-jerk reaction that those who misuse them are uneducated.  While
you are correct that such usage does not cause trouble with understanding,
all the dictionaries that I have seen still consider the use of "lay" for
"lie" to be "nonstandard."  I don't think being able to understand what
someone means is necessarily the measure of good English.

That being said (and very snottily, too), I'm ready to concede regarding the
spacing between sentences.  The replies from you and CyberTaz have
overwhelmed my hidebound nature.  I may not be able to keep myself fromusing
2 spaces (as evidenced in this message), but I guess I'll accept it without
prejudice in others.

There's no reason to _change_ the way you use "lay" and "lie" (as long
as they still come naturally to you) -- and note that you'll hardly
ever misunderstand someone who "misuses" them!

But you'd have to go a long, long way back in the history of English
typography to find examples where it was "correct" to put more space
after a period than between words -- and there's a good reason for
that: a period already comes with lots of blank space above it, so it
gives the visual impression of extra space after the sentence anyway.

Yes, thank you, your advice worked perfectly.
The document I'm working on is required to be in Courier font.  
Regarding other, proportional fonts, I guess I'm just hidebound and can't
get past what I learned many years ago in school.  It's like the use of the
word "lay" where I think "lie" should be used.  When I learned grammar, "lay"
was a transitive verb (Lay the book on the table.), not to be confused with
"lie," an intransitive verb (I think I'll lie down.).  In current usage,
"lay" is used much more than "lie," so realistically I understand that the
language has evolved an I should accept that "lay" has become correct..  
Nevertheless, whenever I hear or see it "misused," it grates on me and seems
incorrect.  It's the same with one space between sentences.  In situations
that I can control, I'll continue to use two spaces between sentences, but I
will accept one space as acceptable [barely  ;o)] where it is not my choice.  
Same with colons, actually.
Sorry to go on and on about this.  I guess I needed someplace to explain m
attitude about this, and you happened to present an opportunity.  Don't feel
that you need to reply to this rant, unless I've hit on one of your pet
peeves too!

 

[displaya]

I was commenting on my own snottiness. Sorry if you thought I might have
been referring to you. I was trying to make a joke at my own expense--no
offense intended.

I certainly agree that language can be formal or informal and different
rules apply in different settings. I'm not sure that lay/lie is one of those
situations though. I think it's pretty unlikely that a person will use "lay"
for "lie" in informal speech, but use "lie" in more formal situations. My
experience would indicate that people who use "lay" for "lie" just don't know
the difference.

OK, I think that horse is officially dead, and we can stop the beating now.

Thanks again for solving my original problem--that was a big help.

Are you saying you were being snotty, or I was? As a linguist, I
understand that there are many different "good Englishes." As Suzanne
notes, if you see misused "lay" and "lie" in a formal publication,
then your opinion of the publisher should go down. But in casual
conversation, or if you're cheering at a ball game, or in many other
social situations, other varieties of English are appropriate and
"talking like a book" isn't. The "goodness" (i.e., appropriateness) of
your language always depends on the context where it's used.

Oh, I won't be changing my use of "lay" and "lie." My struggle is to not
have a knee-jerk reaction that those who misuse them are uneducated. While
you are correct that such usage does not cause trouble with understanding,
all the dictionaries that I have seen still consider the use of "lay" for
"lie" to be "nonstandard." I don't think being able to understand what
someone means is necessarily the measure of good English.

That being said (and very snottily, too), I'm ready to concede regarding the
spacing between sentences. The replies from you and CyberTaz have
overwhelmed my hidebound nature. I may not be able to keep myself from using
2 spaces (as evidenced in this message), but I guess I'll accept it without
prejudice in others.

There's no reason to _change_ the way you use "lay" and "lie" (as long
as they still come naturally to you) -- and note that you'll hardly
ever misunderstand someone who "misuses" them!

But you'd have to go a long, long way back in the history of English
typography to find examples where it was "correct" to put more space
after a period than between words -- and there's a good reason for
that: a period already comes with lots of blank space above it, so it
gives the visual impression of extra space after the sentence anyway.

On May 6, 10:34 am, displaya <[email protected]>
wrote:
Yes, thank you, your advice worked perfectly.

The document I'm working on is required to be in Courier font.

Regarding other, proportional fonts, I guess I'm just hidebound and can't
get past what I learned many years ago in school. It's like the use of the
word "lay" where I think "lie" should be used. When I learned grammar, "lay"
was a transitive verb (Lay the book on the table.), not to be confused with
"lie," an intransitive verb (I think I'll lie down.). In current usage,
"lay" is used much more than "lie," so realistically I understand that the
language has evolved an I should accept that "lay" has become correct..
Nevertheless, whenever I hear or see it "misused," it grates on me and seems
incorrect. It's the same with one space between sentences. In situations
that I can control, I'll continue to use two spaces between sentences, but I
will accept one space as acceptable [barely ;o)] where it is not my choice.
Same with colons, actually.

Sorry to go on and on about this. I guess I needed someplace to explain m
attitude about this, and you happened to present an opportunity. Don't feel
that you need to reply to this rant, unless I've hit on one of your pet
peeves too!