Spotlight?

R

Rick O'Shey

I'm currently creating a new clone to an external drive (been running since
yesterday), and noticed that Spotlight is indexing *everything* associated
with my machine (estimated indexing time is hundreds of hours). I haven't
seen that happen in years.

I'm fairly certain that I had included my Identity in Spotlight's Privacy
list. But it now appears to have vanished.

1. Might the two be related?

2. Shall I re-include my Identity in the Privacy list now, or wait until the
Spotlight indexing completes (sometime before next Christmas;) ).
 
W

William Smith [MVP]

I'm currently creating a new clone to an external drive (been running since
yesterday), and noticed that Spotlight is indexing *everything* associated
with my machine (estimated indexing time is hundreds of hours). I haven't
seen that happen in years.

I'm fairly certain that I had included my Identity in Spotlight's Privacy
list. But it now appears to have vanished.

1. Might the two be related?

2. Shall I re-include my Identity in the Privacy list now, or wait until the
Spotlight indexing completes (sometime before next Christmas;) ).

Spotlight sees your identity as the files and folders they are, not the
individual mail messages. It has no way of looking inside your Database
at individual items. Instead, it will see your Database as one very
large file and be done with it.

However, Entourage has a Spotlight preference under Entourage menu -->
Preferences... --> General Preferences --> Spotlight. If this is
enabled, the Microsoft Database Daemon will create one cache file for
every message in Entourage so that Spotlight can index it. This caching
will occur even while Entourage is quit and it will continue until it is
finished. Thereafter, as you receive/move/delete messages, the daemon
will update the cache files, which has little impact on your Mac's
performance.

Hope this helps!

--

bill

Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://nine.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/youtalk>
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/meck>
 
R

Rick O'Shey

How are you making the clone?

I'm a long-time SD! user.
I suggest using CCC or SuperDuper.

Have Spotlight not index the drive that is being cloned.

I realized that after I posted. So, I quickly included the new clone in the
Privacy list. My question "Shall I re-include my my Identity in the Privacy
list now, or wait until the Spotlight indexing completes?" then became moot.

FWIW, BTW, I've been backing up my Identity to a folder called "Entourage
Backup" on my internal drive, using a variant of your workflow
(http://tinyurl.com/cdvqwy), the primary difference being that my workflow
has an additional Growl Notification (I called it "Updating Entourage
Backup") immediately after the "Run AppleScript." (I called my second Growl
Notification (after "Copy Finder Items") "Entourage Backup has been
updated.") This way, I'm notified when the backing up is initiated, as well
as when it's completed.

So, I asked a question, and then realized I knew the answer. So I guess the
only thing left is for me to have an argument with myself. ;P
 
D

Diane Ross

I realized that after I posted. So, I quickly included the new clone in the
Privacy list. My question "Shall I re-include my my Identity in the Privacy
list now, or wait until the Spotlight indexing completes?" then became moot.

The clone should pick up any settings in Time Machine privacy.

If you need to re-index your drive...

Open System Preferences and click the Spotlight button. Select the Privacy
tab and add your hard drive to the list of drives to exclude from Spotlight
searches. Wait about five minutes and then remove your hard drive from the
list. Spotlight will then reindex the drive.

Easy way using the terminal:

sudo mdutil -E /
FWIW, BTW, I've been backing up my Identity to a folder called "Entourage
Backup" on my internal drive, using a variant of your workflow
(http://tinyurl.com/cdvqwy), the primary difference being that my workflow
has an additional Growl Notification (I called it "Updating Entourage
Backup") immediately after the "Run AppleScript." (I called my second Growl
Notification (after "Copy Finder Items") "Entourage Backup has been
updated.") This way, I'm notified when the backing up is initiated, as well
as when it's completed.

The Growl notifications are a great add on. I've included it in my newer
tutorials.


--
Diane Ross, Microsoft Mac MVP
Entourage Help Page <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://tinyurl.com/bzcrjy> <-- Entourage mailing list
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/entouragehelp>
 
R

Rick O'Shey

Spotlight sees your identity as the files and folders they are, not the
individual mail messages. It has no way of looking inside your Database
at individual items. Instead, it will see your Database as one very
large file and be done with it.

Yes...I know. If one byte of your multi-GB email database is corrupted, the
entire file is toast. Yet another example of a MS software design "feature."

However, Entourage has a Spotlight preference under Entourage menu -->
Preferences... --> General Preferences --> Spotlight. If this is
enabled, the Microsoft Database Daemon will create one cache file for
every message in Entourage so that Spotlight can index it.

That explains why individual messages always showed up in my Spotlight
search results, even though I had excluded the Main Identity from Spotlight
indexing: Apparently, the Prefs > General Prefs > Spotlight > Spotlight
checkbox is checked, by default.

This caching
will occur even while Entourage is quit and it will continue until it is
finished. Thereafter, as you receive/move/delete messages, the daemon
will update the cache files, which has little impact on your Mac's
performance.

Hope this helps!

Yes it does...thanks.
 
C

Corentin Cras-Méneur

Yes...I know. If one byte of your multi-GB email database is corrupted, the
entire file is toast. Yet another example of a MS software design "feature."


Well actually not really. The Rebuild feature of Entourage scans the
database and recovers everything that can be.
It's not great, but it's not as bad as you might have thought it was.

Corentin
 
R

Rick O'Shey

Well actually not really. The Rebuild feature of Entourage scans the
database and recovers everything that can be.
It's not great, but it's not as bad as you might have thought it was.

Corentin


Well, Corentin, I've become increasingly disillusioned with Entourage: I
need to regularly rebuild the database (which recovers not "everything," but
everything that "can be" recovered...and often then requires that I spend a
lot of time culling the results to eliminate duplicate messages); I've never
been able to create a set of rules that works the way I'd like; and
(perhaps most annoying), I can't _reliably_ back up my system without first
stopping all work to quit Entourage (and, I recently discovered, _all_ of
the Office products and their associated apps). And since my SuperDuper! and
Time Machine back-up routines are set up to run automatically on independent
schedules, I've set up a series of Growl alerts to remind me to quit all
running MS apps ahead of each scheduled backup. In all likelihood, I'll soon
incorporate them into an Automator workflow I've been using (similar to
Diane's) to work around the "Entourage-Time Machine" problem.

But really, should all of this be happening -- and should all of this be
necessary -- in a well-designed app? Quite frankly, this appears to be one
of the busiest newsgroups on the 'net, chock full of folks constantly
beleaguered with problems, forced to rely _not_ on MS, but on extremely
talented volunteers like yourself, Diane, et al., for assistance, often
requiring creative "workarounds" reminiscent of Rube Goldberg solutions.

The only thing that Entourage has going for it (from my perspective) is a
familiar interface that is relatively easy to navigate, plus the ability to
access newsgroups. The field of alternative email clients and newsreaders is
rather anemic, otherwise I probably would've dumped Entourage a while ago.
But at this point, I'm seriously considering moving to Mail.app (which I
don't like) plus MacSoup (which, though dated, I do like).

Quite frankly, I'd rather not migrate, but putting up with Entourage is
becoming an "increasingly increasing" operational burden. And, to add insult
to injury, it is relatively costly.
 
C

Corentin Cras-Méneur

Well, Corentin, I've become increasingly disillusioned with Entourage: I
need to regularly rebuild the database (which recovers not "everything," but
everything that "can be" recovered...and often then requires that I spend a
lot of time culling the results to eliminate duplicate messages);


There might be something badly corrupted in your database.
I know it's a major pain, but you might consider exporting everything
you can to an archive, create a new identity and reimport it all (and
re-enter the account settings, rules, mailing list management,
schedules... I know :-\ ).

I exclusively use IMAP and Exchange accounts. When I need to archive
things, I use EagleFiler.
I therefore don't have the same problems. If something gets ugly, I can
create a new identity and ask Entourage to get all the e-mails from the
servers again.
I don't really want to rely on the On My computer section too much for
various reasons, (backing-up being one of them as you pointed out
below).
I've never
been able to create a set of rules that works the way I'd like; and
(perhaps most annoying), I can't _reliably_ back up my system without first
stopping all work to quit Entourage (and, I recently discovered, _all_ of
the Office products and their associated apps). And since my SuperDuper! and
Time Machine back-up routines are set up to run automatically on independent
schedules, I've set up a series of Growl alerts to remind me to quit all
running MS apps ahead of each scheduled backup. In all likelihood, I'll soon
incorporate them into an Automator workflow I've been using (similar to
Diane's) to work around the "Entourage-Time Machine" problem.

Yeah, for SuperDuper! you can ask SD to run a shell script quitting
them all before performing the backup.
You could even have a post-run script relaunch Entourage after it's done.
But really, should all of this be happening -- and should all of this be
necessary -- in a well-designed app? Quite frankly, this appears to be one
of the busiest newsgroups on the 'net, chock full of folks constantly
beleaguered with problems, forced to rely _not_ on MS, but on extremely
talented volunteers like yourself, Diane, et al., for assistance, often
requiring creative "workarounds" reminiscent of Rube Goldberg solutions.

There have been numerous discussions on the pros and cons of this type
of databases, for Entourage and other applications.
Most of the time, as I can recall, people in favor of databases pointed
out performances and the fact that a file-based design didn't allow for
some complex tasks like tagging, links, etc (though I'm not so sure
it's accurate when I see the OpenMeta project).
In other words: I'm with you on this one, but clearly, it's not in my hands :->
The only thing that Entourage has going for it (from my perspective) is a
familiar interface that is relatively easy to navigate, plus the ability to
access newsgroups. The field of alternative email clients and newsreaders is
rather anemic, otherwise I probably would've dumped Entourage a while ago.
But at this point, I'm seriously considering moving to Mail.app (which I
don't like) plus MacSoup (which, though dated, I do like).

MacSoup is a GREAT nntp client. It's dated user interface and
limitations are the only things pushing me to look around for alternate
options. I had great hopes with Nemo (too buggy at this point). I am
currently playing around with Unison 2.0. Not too bad, but still not as
powerful as MacSoup.
I miss the graphical representation of the threads (but it has a
semi-threaded view) and the auto-tagging of threads I posted in (they
say it's in the works).

As far as Mail is concerned, it's a different story: I use Entourage AND Mail.
Entourage is still the best Exchange client out there as far as I am
concerned and has a bunch of unique features you don't see anywhere
else.
Mail is somewhat limited, but add-ons like MailTags and Mail Act-On can
turn it into a powertool! I use Mail *because* of these two add-ons!
Quite frankly, I'd rather not migrate, but putting up with Entourage is
becoming an "increasingly increasing" operational burden. And, to add insult
to injury, it is relatively costly.

I feel you pain :-\

          Corentin
 
D

Diane Ross

I
need to regularly rebuild the database (which recovers not "everything," but
everything that "can be" recovered...and often then requires that I spend a
lot of time culling the results to eliminate duplicate messages);

After rebuilding do you export the data and import into a new Identity?
Rebuilding does not fix everything in a database. Creating a new Identity is
the only way to get rid of some corruption.

Personally, I might get corruption once a year at most. I do terrible things
to my database testing other user's problems.

Corentin's suggesting of using IMAP might be a better solution for you.
I've never
been able to create a set of rules that works the way I'd like;

Get Started Lesson: Learn to Setup Rules

and
(perhaps most annoying), I can't _reliably_ back up my system without first
stopping all work to quit Entourage (and, I recently discovered, _all_ of
the Office products and their associated apps).

Run your backups at night and automate this process using a shell script.

<http://tinyurl.com/yfgx63l>

--
Diane Ross, Microsoft Mac MVP
Entourage Help Page <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://tinyurl.com/bzcrjy> <-- Entourage mailing list
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/entouragehelp>
 

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