student groups, random, create more than once

[gooba937]

Hello. I am a teacher. I have used Filemaker Pro in the past. I am
beginning to work with access. I am looking to create two different
databases: I may eventually create them as one. However, right now I want
to start with two.

I want a behavior database. I want to use a lee canter style format. I
would want a list of 30 students... I have 12 classes. I would want to have
the students receive strikes for misbehavior (something that I would keep
track of myself). I would want to be able to attach a note to the problem.
I currently have the 12 classes as 12 workbooks in excel. Each workbook has
30 student names. Each row has a student name, O (stand for first
consequence), B(stands for second), P(stands for third)... I would like to be
able to give more than one O or B, based on week or class. I would like to
be able to look at one student's behavior at a time. Any ideas?

I want a partner choice database. Again, 12 classes and 30 students in each
class. I would like to be able to randomly group the 30 students in each
class. I might want groups of four this time. I might want groups of two
next time. I might want to group by student learning style. I might want to
have conditions (this kid can't work with this one or this kid must work with
this one). Any ideas?

I have looked online and haven't been able to find what I am looking for...
I have also purchased several gradebook programs, but many none that I have
seen have a partner choice or behavior database.

I would also really like to be able to use the database on my PC and
PocketPC....

 

[Wayne-I-M]

Hi,

I think that sometimes (I do it myself) there is a hold-over from "this is
the way I do it" into "this is the new method". There are some things that
are good about this - familiarity, less to learn, etc - but there are also
draw backs - you may not use the new method to it's best as you are still
holding on to older methods.
Hope that makes sense.

As an example - your excel books at the moment have 30 children in a certain
number of classes. If you add another child or class this would mean
re-designing some of the work-flow.

Access does not (well it shouldn't) work like that. If you set up the basic
tables’ right you can add or delete children and classes as many times as you
need. You can also add to the application (with excel this is difficult) eg.
You may want to run a new report to show a new requirement, you may need to
add to the child/class types by adding in meals or parent details or after
school activities. With access this is not too difficult - with excel it
would mean a re-design and so may not be worth the hassle.

So

The 1st thing you need to do is work out the end result you are looking for
– I know back to front but that’s how it is. Think about a cake – you know
you want it to have cream layers and chocolate flowers on the top – so you
will get the right ingredients before you even start to cook (mind you I
don’t – it’s a guy thing – just start the cake and see what it comes out like
– Mrs Wayne-I-M thinks this is funny by the way)

So – you want to be able to produce reports (a report in access – to my
mind) is any thing that is printed or mailed (may be wrong about the by way).
You also want to be able to record bad behavior. You want to be able to
allocate children into classes randomly. There are other things but that’s a
good start.

Just for these 3 things you will need to store the data in 2 tables
Details of the children
Details of the classes

If each child went o one class and one class only this would be very simple
– one to one. But in this case many (some, all, etc) can go to many classes
(some, all, etc). So this is not a one to one relationship it is a many to
many.

You will need an extra table – to hold details of the child/class relations.

The 1st thing to do then is to create your 1st 4 tables
tblChildren
tblClasses
tblAttendance
tblProblems

I assume you already know about basic table design – Always have a unique
identifier (you may have children with the same name – so this will identify
each child) – only put one bit of information in each field (so break down
the address don’t just type the whole thing into one field) etc.

In tblchildren you could have
ChildID – Auto number
Child1stName - text
Child2ndName - text
ChildDateofBirth – date.time
ChildAddress1 - text
ChildAddress2 - text
ChildAddress3 - text
ChildAddress4 - text
ChildZipCode – text
ChildContact – text (maybe the name of the parent to contact in an emergency)
ChildContactNumber – text (telephone number are text)
Etc
Etc
Etc

tblProblems
ProblemID - auto number
ChildID – link this to tblChild
ProblemCode – Number
ProbleNote - memo

In tblClasses
ClassID - Auto number
ClassLocation – text
ClassTopic – Text
ClassStart - time
ClassEnd - time
ClassNote – memo
Etc
Etc
Etc

Not you need to link all this together in tblAttendance
AttendID
ChildID
ClassID
Plus other fields that relate to this specific child in this specific class
As an example you may want to link the tblProblem here so you can see
when/where the problem occurred (do certain children has more problems at
certain times – in certain classes etc)

Once you have built your tables – come back with more questions – I am sure
some one will be able to offer advice.

But the main thing to remember is that you MUST get the table structure and
relationships right or you will have problems later on.

Last but not least – educational database are quite complex – they also need
security to protect information – are you sure you want to build one from the
start. There are many templates available that you alter which would be
quick and simpler then creating your own bespoke application – just something
to think about.

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/templates/CT101428361033.aspx

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/templates/CT101426031033.aspx

good luck

 

[gooba937]

Wayne,

The information that you gave me is very helpful. I know that I would like
one database rather than more than one.

The tables: If each student can only be in on class, I see 360 different
students. There is no overlap of students. Would it make sense to have 12
tables, one for each class? Or, is it better to have one child tablee, one
classes, one attendance, one problems?


On creating my own, I would be the only one accessing it. I am not putting
it out there for other people.

I have purchased many gradebook programs, but they are always missing one
piece or another. I am at the point where I want something custom for my use.

My favorite Gradebook is Easy Grade Pro. The problem is that they don't
have the discipline piece. If they added that, I wouldn't even be attempting
this.

The partner choice piece, I would like to do this no matter what... I make
many groups for the students. I am constantly regrouping. It would be nice
to have something that would make it a quick click. Right now, I take the 12
classes with 30 kids each and give them a paper to write three people they
want to work with and three they don't. The goal is to give them a partner
that they like to work with and avoid partners that are going to make one
another crazy. I would also like to add things in like learning styles in
order to make better groupings.

 

[gooba937]

ilemOne other table question: If I have all 360 students in one table, what
do I do to create a way to see only one class of 30 students.

I understand the basic tables and relationships. I have used filemaker Pro,
but Filemaker was much more Wysiwyg. Plus, I haven't used it in four years

 

[Wayne-I-M]

Would it make sense to have 12 tables, one for each class?
Deffinatley not - sorry I hope I'm not being rude - thats not my intention

You have students - so create a table with student information
You have classes - so create a table with class information
You have problems - so create a table with problem information

Next join the them all together with another table
TableID
StudentID
ClassID

Now join the the problems with the student (this is also many to many)
TableID
StudentID
ProbelmID

Can I make a suggestion - in this forum there are many MVP's and others who
will work for your education athurity (not me by way - I'm not looking for
work) who will quote you for some basic database construction work.

They will be able to disscuss your requirements and come up with a
"workable" solution to your particular needs.

If you can not find a template you can use then it may be an idea just to
ask - you don't have to take the idea any futher

But what you are looking at is quite complex and (if you ask an MVP or other
expert in this forum) they will be able to produce a growable (I hope that is
a real english word) application that you can then work on

An educational database is not as simple as you hope.

Please do ask for assistance - your educational authrity may be able to help
with some basic construction of the application

I really would ask - you can only benifit

oh sorry if may english is not too good - but I hope you undertand

 

[Wayne-I-M]

You need to lin the link the student table with the class table i a junction
table (mny to many)

You will than be able to specify a class and just (by filtering) the student
in that class