Styles in word

[neildw]

When creating a new style in Word 2003, what defines the choice for the
'Style based on' option.

I'm having some problems with this, any advice would be appreciated

 

[Elliott Roper]

When creating a new style in Word 2003, what defines the choice for the
'Style based on' option.

I'm having some problems with this, any advice would be appreciated

Well, it is an interesting question. It comes down to a personal
preference for typography of one sort or another, plus a few features
elswhere in Word that sort-of depend on styles but shouldn't.
Chief of the latter are the built-in heading styles. If you keep the
names (and the based-on-ness too I think) you get a free table of
contents. The TOC styles are a good example of the former, where the
typographic elements of each level in the TOC look good together.

If you base all your body text, list and such like styles on one
another, then you can change the parent's font, say, and have most of
the children follow along. That is a good thing.

Beware of basing those styles on normal style however. You run a risk
of your document going nuts when you import another person's doc into
it. Word drunkenly defaults to 'based on normal' to get you into poor
habits.

 

[Klaus Linke]

You run a risk of your document going nuts when

you import another person's doc into it.

Hi Elliott,

Sorry ,but that's likely an urban legend ;-)

Word applies your document's styles to stuff you paste/insert from other
docs, not the other way round.

In the other direction, your argument makes sense: If you would want to keep
your formatting and style relationships when pasting into another doc, you
would be better off avoiding the built-in styles and especially "Normal"
since they are probably there already (definitely Normal and Heading 1, 2,
3), with given formatting and "based on" relationships.
But is that really a goal/issue? If you paste into another doc, you most
likely want to have the text take on the styles/look of that doc.

Regards,
Klaus




"Elliott Roper" <wrote:

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hi Elliott,

Sorry ,but that's likely an urban legend ;-)

In my experience you get a mixture. If you lack a style of the same
name as that which is added, you cannot predict what happens next. If
you also lack the font it specified and yet it was based on some style
*name* which you also have, you can expect some amazing substitutions.

Me, I paste unformatted. I really cannot be bothered digging down to
find out what will happen in every case. Word is moodier than a camel
in rut.

Word applies your document's styles to stuff you paste/insert from other
docs, not the other way round.

see above.

In the other direction, your argument makes sense: If you would want to keep
your formatting and style relationships when pasting into another doc, you
would be better off avoiding the built-in styles and especially "Normal"
since they are probably there already (definitely Normal and Heading 1, 2,
3), with given formatting and "based on" relationships.
But is that really a goal/issue? If you paste into another doc, you most
likely want to have the text take on the styles/look of that doc.

heh! maybe, most of the time. It is a nightmare. see also above, from
180º.

The one true rule to follow when sharing docs is to agree on a
template, and leave one of the collaborators with final say on style of
the finished work. In both senses of 'style'

In my cantankerous view, Word fudges the importance of consistent style
with ease of use for inexperienced users, and bodges both.

 

[Klaus Linke]

Hi Elliott,

I got you wrong then, sorry! Thought you meant that your document (= the
existing text and the existing styles) can get messed up when you paste in
stuff.

If you paste from a styled document, it can be a breeze. The only thing you
might need to do is redefine a couple of pasted styles to match the look of
your doc, or, more likely, replace those styles with styles you want to use
instead from your doc (using Find/Replace) when you are done, and then
delete them.

But unfortunately, styled documents are rare :-(

Klaus

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Yeah: It's a big questions, and everyone has their own pet foibles here.

To make the decision, you need to understand Object orientation" and
"Inheritance".

Word is heavily object-oriented. That means everything in a document is
treated as an "object", which means it has "properties" and "behaviours".
Since we're talking about Styles, the main "behaviour" we are interested in
is that a style causes all text to which the style is applied to be
formatted with the formatting contained within the style.

Note: I said "The formatting contained within the style". In Word, a
"paragraph" is an object. Any paragraph MUST have one style applied to it,
it CAN have as many as three more. It MUST have a paragraph style, it may
also have a Character style, a List style and a Table style.

The "properties" of a style describe the formatting that it applies. Font
Name is a property, as is Font size, colour, left indent, right indent etc.

Just because a style "can" have a particular property, does not mean that it
*does* have that property. "Language" is a property of both Paragraph and
Character styles: it may be set in either or neither.

Styles have a precedence: Table overrides List overrides Character
overrides Paragraph. In later versions of Word, "Direct" formatting is also
created as a style internally, and it overrides all of the above.

"Inheritance" simply describes the ability of objects to be nested, and for
the nested objects to inherit from their containing parents. As far as
styles are concerned, the containing object is always "The Document", so a
style moved from one place to another will inherit the properties of the
same-named style in the destination document.

However, styles can also be defined in hierarchies, using the "based on"
property. If they are, any give property (e.g. Font Name) will be inherited
all the way down the chain to the end.

You might define Heading 1 to be based on Normal style, Heading 2 based on
Heading 1, Heading 3 based on Heading 2, etc, all the way down to Heading 9.

If you then change Normal style from Times New Roman to Arial font, Normal,
and Heading 1 all the way through to Heading 9 will instantly switch to
Arial font. The Size, on the other hand, is probably set for each style in
the Heading series, so if you change the size ion any of the series, that
change will not be reflected down the chain. In Styles, inheritance works
only downwards: grandparent, parent, child...

In a blank new template, every style is Based On Normal style: there are no
hierarchies. This is a good idea if you intend to use only one font in the
document, and wish to change that font during the document's life. For
example: you may have a document that is to be both printed and displayed on
the web. You might change Normal style to Times New Roman for printing, and
to Verdana for the web. The entire document will change each time you do.

How you set your Based On hierarchies depends on what you want to achieve.
However, documentation professionals usually end up with something like
this:

You have four hierarchies:
1) Headings
2) Body Text
3) Lists
4) None of the above

Heading 1 is based on No Style, Headings 2 to 9 are based on the one above
in each case. In a default template, the Heading styles are all based on
Normal, which is a stupid way to set them. If you set no other hierarchies,
set the Heading styles to break the link from Normal!!

While playing around with the Heading series of styles, you will see that
the Outline Level property is greyed out for these styles. That's your
indication that the Heading 1 through 9 series have special properties that
make things such as TOC and Heading numbering reliable. These properties
are hard-coded and can't be changed, but everything else can be.

Body Text is based on No Style, and all other body styles (body indent,
list, List Indent etc...) are all based on Body Text

Lists (List Number 1 to 9, List Bullet 1 to 9, List 1 to 9, List Continue,
etc) are usually based on the one above. So: List Number is based on Body
Text, List Number 2 to 9 are based on the one above. Whenever you apply
bullets or numbering to a series of styles, they MUST be based on the one
above.

The "None of the above" bucket includes all styles for which you do not want
inheritance to operate, or don't care if it does. Examples would be the TOC
styles, and the Header and Footer styles. The TOC styles are a special
case: unless you are using a TOC format of "From Template", it doesn't
matter what settings you make in the TOC styles, because Word will overwrite
those settings each time it generates the TOC. That means you can't control
the formatting of the TOC because Word is. So most professionals would set
the TOC format to "From Template", in which case the TOC styles can be based
on anything you like EXCEPT one of the numbered styles or one of the Heading
styles.

Styles for things such as the Front Cover are based on No Style, because you
do not want these changing when anything else changes. In the front matter,
you will want one or two styles that do not appear ion the TOC. These
styles must not be based on the heading styles, otherwise they will be
picked up by the TOC.

Most professionals break the link to Normal style for all of their styles.
This is a big help when dealing with text from other authors that may not be
formatted correctly. A professional would then reserve Normal style as an
indication that the text has "yet to be formatted". At some point in the
production cycle, you would then set Normal style to a colour of Shocking
Pink, which enables you to see at a glance which bits of text don't have the
correct styles applied (There are some areas where you cannot get rid
of Normal style, because it's the base style for a Word document: the
row-ends of a table are one such: they will always have Normal Style).

When you've fixed your formatting, you then put Normal back to a sensible
colour

There" Now you know all there is about setting "Based On". Your first
efforts will be fraught with frustration, like ours have been. Keep at it:
mastering this is well worth it...

Hope this helps

When creating a new style in Word 2003, what defines the choice for the
'Style based on' option.

I'm having some problems with this, any advice would be appreciated

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Bod]

Fantastic post. Thanks.
I had problems with the Normal style being changed (affecting drawing
objects; tables), so in our new templates, I created a style called
"Ordinary" (sits next to Normal in a list) which can have the line spacing:
before:6pt.
I've noticed that if some of the document was typed using the Normal style,
then when I want to bulk-change those sections to Ordinary, it messes with
bulleted lists.
Should I change the "Body Text" style to "before:6pt" instead of creating
this Ordinary style?

Yeah: It's a big questions, and everyone has their own pet foibles here.

To make the decision, you need to understand Object orientation" and
"Inheritance".

Word is heavily object-oriented. That means everything in a document is
treated as an "object", which means it has "properties" and "behaviours".
Since we're talking about Styles, the main "behaviour" we are interested in
is that a style causes all text to which the style is applied to be
formatted with the formatting contained within the style.

Note: I said "The formatting contained within the style". In Word, a
"paragraph" is an object. Any paragraph MUST have one style applied to it,
it CAN have as many as three more. It MUST have a paragraph style, it may
also have a Character style, a List style and a Table style.

The "properties" of a style describe the formatting that it applies. Font
Name is a property, as is Font size, colour, left indent, right indent etc.

Just because a style "can" have a particular property, does not mean that it
*does* have that property. "Language" is a property of both Paragraph and
Character styles: it may be set in either or neither.

Styles have a precedence: Table overrides List overrides Character
overrides Paragraph. In later versions of Word, "Direct" formatting is also
created as a style internally, and it overrides all of the above.

"Inheritance" simply describes the ability of objects to be nested, and for
the nested objects to inherit from their containing parents. As far as
styles are concerned, the containing object is always "The Document", so a
style moved from one place to another will inherit the properties of the
same-named style in the destination document.

However, styles can also be defined in hierarchies, using the "based on"
property. If they are, any give property (e.g. Font Name) will be inherited
all the way down the chain to the end.

You might define Heading 1 to be based on Normal style, Heading 2 based on
Heading 1, Heading 3 based on Heading 2, etc, all the way down to Heading 9.

If you then change Normal style from Times New Roman to Arial font, Normal,
and Heading 1 all the way through to Heading 9 will instantly switch to
Arial font. The Size, on the other hand, is probably set for each style in
the Heading series, so if you change the size ion any of the series, that
change will not be reflected down the chain. In Styles, inheritance works
only downwards: grandparent, parent, child...

In a blank new template, every style is Based On Normal style: there are no
hierarchies. This is a good idea if you intend to use only one font in the
document, and wish to change that font during the document's life. For
example: you may have a document that is to be both printed and displayed on
the web. You might change Normal style to Times New Roman for printing, and
to Verdana for the web. The entire document will change each time you do.

How you set your Based On hierarchies depends on what you want to achieve.
However, documentation professionals usually end up with something like
this:

You have four hierarchies:
1) Headings
2) Body Text
3) Lists
4) None of the above

Heading 1 is based on No Style, Headings 2 to 9 are based on the one above
in each case. In a default template, the Heading styles are all based on
Normal, which is a stupid way to set them. If you set no other hierarchies,
set the Heading styles to break the link from Normal!!

While playing around with the Heading series of styles, you will see that
the Outline Level property is greyed out for these styles. That's your
indication that the Heading 1 through 9 series have special properties that
make things such as TOC and Heading numbering reliable. These properties
are hard-coded and can't be changed, but everything else can be.

Body Text is based on No Style, and all other body styles (body indent,
list, List Indent etc...) are all based on Body Text

Lists (List Number 1 to 9, List Bullet 1 to 9, List 1 to 9, List Continue,
etc) are usually based on the one above. So: List Number is based on Body
Text, List Number 2 to 9 are based on the one above. Whenever you apply
bullets or numbering to a series of styles, they MUST be based on the one
above.

The "None of the above" bucket includes all styles for which you do not want
inheritance to operate, or don't care if it does. Examples would be the TOC
styles, and the Header and Footer styles. The TOC styles are a special
case: unless you are using a TOC format of "From Template", it doesn't
matter what settings you make in the TOC styles, because Word will overwrite
those settings each time it generates the TOC. That means you can't control
the formatting of the TOC because Word is. So most professionals would set
the TOC format to "From Template", in which case the TOC styles can be based
on anything you like EXCEPT one of the numbered styles or one of the Heading
styles.

Styles for things such as the Front Cover are based on No Style, because you
do not want these changing when anything else changes. In the front matter,
you will want one or two styles that do not appear ion the TOC. These
styles must not be based on the heading styles, otherwise they will be
picked up by the TOC.

Most professionals break the link to Normal style for all of their styles.
This is a big help when dealing with text from other authors that may not be
formatted correctly. A professional would then reserve Normal style as an
indication that the text has "yet to be formatted". At some point in the
production cycle, you would then set Normal style to a colour of Shocking
Pink, which enables you to see at a glance which bits of text don't have the
correct styles applied (There are some areas where you cannot get rid
of Normal style, because it's the base style for a Word document: the
row-ends of a table are one such: they will always have Normal Style).

When you've fixed your formatting, you then put Normal back to a sensible
colour

There" Now you know all there is about setting "Based On". Your first
efforts will be fraught with frustration, like ours have been. Keep at it:
mastering this is well worth it...

Hope this helps

When creating a new style in Word 2003, what defines the choice for the
'Style based on' option.

I'm having some problems with this, any advice would be appreciated

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Clive Huggan]

Without interrupting John's advice on your specific situation: you might
like to look at the section on styles beginning on page 89 of some notes on
the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). My practices are
very similar to his.The notes are formatted following those practices.

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Note: In Word 2008, which I don't use yet, some of this information may not
apply, or may be accessible through a different interface. If that causes
problems, post back and someone will help you further.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

Fantastic post. Thanks.
I had problems with the Normal style being changed (affecting drawing
objects; tables), so in our new templates, I created a style called
"Ordinary" (sits next to Normal in a list) which can have the line spacing:
before:6pt.
I've noticed that if some of the document was typed using the Normal style,
then when I want to bulk-change those sections to Ordinary, it messes with
bulleted lists.
Should I change the "Body Text" style to "before:6pt" instead of creating
this Ordinary style?

Yeah: It's a big questions, and everyone has their own pet foibles here.

To make the decision, you need to understand Object orientation" and
"Inheritance".

Word is heavily object-oriented. That means everything in a document is
treated as an "object", which means it has "properties" and "behaviours".
Since we're talking about Styles, the main "behaviour" we are interested in
is that a style causes all text to which the style is applied to be
formatted with the formatting contained within the style.

Note: I said "The formatting contained within the style". In Word, a
"paragraph" is an object. Any paragraph MUST have one style applied to it,
it CAN have as many as three more. It MUST have a paragraph style, it may
also have a Character style, a List style and a Table style.

The "properties" of a style describe the formatting that it applies. Font
Name is a property, as is Font size, colour, left indent, right indent etc.

Just because a style "can" have a particular property, does not mean that it
*does* have that property. "Language" is a property of both Paragraph and
Character styles: it may be set in either or neither.

Styles have a precedence: Table overrides List overrides Character
overrides Paragraph. In later versions of Word, "Direct" formatting is also
created as a style internally, and it overrides all of the above.

"Inheritance" simply describes the ability of objects to be nested, and for
the nested objects to inherit from their containing parents. As far as
styles are concerned, the containing object is always "The Document", so a
style moved from one place to another will inherit the properties of the
same-named style in the destination document.

However, styles can also be defined in hierarchies, using the "based on"
property. If they are, any give property (e.g. Font Name) will be inherited
all the way down the chain to the end.

You might define Heading 1 to be based on Normal style, Heading 2 based on
Heading 1, Heading 3 based on Heading 2, etc, all the way down to Heading 9.

If you then change Normal style from Times New Roman to Arial font, Normal,
and Heading 1 all the way through to Heading 9 will instantly switch to
Arial font. The Size, on the other hand, is probably set for each style in
the Heading series, so if you change the size ion any of the series, that
change will not be reflected down the chain. In Styles, inheritance works
only downwards: grandparent, parent, child...

In a blank new template, every style is Based On Normal style: there are no
hierarchies. This is a good idea if you intend to use only one font in the
document, and wish to change that font during the document's life. For
example: you may have a document that is to be both printed and displayed on
the web. You might change Normal style to Times New Roman for printing, and
to Verdana for the web. The entire document will change each time you do.

How you set your Based On hierarchies depends on what you want to achieve.
However, documentation professionals usually end up with something like
this:

You have four hierarchies:
1) Headings
2) Body Text
3) Lists
4) None of the above

Heading 1 is based on No Style, Headings 2 to 9 are based on the one above
in each case. In a default template, the Heading styles are all based on
Normal, which is a stupid way to set them. If you set no other hierarchies,
set the Heading styles to break the link from Normal!!

While playing around with the Heading series of styles, you will see that
the Outline Level property is greyed out for these styles. That's your
indication that the Heading 1 through 9 series have special properties that
make things such as TOC and Heading numbering reliable. These properties
are hard-coded and can't be changed, but everything else can be.

Body Text is based on No Style, and all other body styles (body indent,
list, List Indent etc...) are all based on Body Text

Lists (List Number 1 to 9, List Bullet 1 to 9, List 1 to 9, List Continue,
etc) are usually based on the one above. So: List Number is based on Body
Text, List Number 2 to 9 are based on the one above. Whenever you apply
bullets or numbering to a series of styles, they MUST be based on the one
above.

The "None of the above" bucket includes all styles for which you do not want
inheritance to operate, or don't care if it does. Examples would be the TOC
styles, and the Header and Footer styles. The TOC styles are a special
case: unless you are using a TOC format of "From Template", it doesn't
matter what settings you make in the TOC styles, because Word will overwrite
those settings each time it generates the TOC. That means you can't control
the formatting of the TOC because Word is. So most professionals would set
the TOC format to "From Template", in which case the TOC styles can be based
on anything you like EXCEPT one of the numbered styles or one of the Heading
styles.

Styles for things such as the Front Cover are based on No Style, because you
do not want these changing when anything else changes. In the front matter,
you will want one or two styles that do not appear ion the TOC. These
styles must not be based on the heading styles, otherwise they will be
picked up by the TOC.

Most professionals break the link to Normal style for all of their styles.
This is a big help when dealing with text from other authors that may not be
formatted correctly. A professional would then reserve Normal style as an
indication that the text has "yet to be formatted". At some point in the
production cycle, you would then set Normal style to a colour of Shocking
Pink, which enables you to see at a glance which bits of text don't have the
correct styles applied (There are some areas where you cannot get rid
of Normal style, because it's the base style for a Word document: the
row-ends of a table are one such: they will always have Normal Style).

When you've fixed your formatting, you then put Normal back to a sensible
colour

There" Now you know all there is about setting "Based On". Your first
efforts will be fraught with frustration, like ours have been. Keep at it:
mastering this is well worth it...

Hope this helps

When creating a new style in Word 2003, what defines the choice for the
'Style based on' option.

I'm having some problems with this, any advice would be appreciated

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Clive Huggan]

Oops! Just spotted you're using Word 2003. "Bend Word to Your Will" is based
on Word for the Mac. Although it's easy enough to translate much of the
content to Word 2003, you should at least be aware of that.

Although John is answering your queries, you've actually landed in a
discussion group for users of Mac versions of Word. Here's where all the
groups are listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/FlyoutOverview.mspx

Clive Huggan
============

 

[Bod]

Thanks. I didn't see anything saying it's for Mac but I'll use the list you
sent.
I have replaced my "ordinary" style with the Body Text and made the Heading
styles based on "No style".
Do you know if it is recommended that users base the Body Text on Normal or

Oops! Just spotted you're using Word 2003. "Bend Word to Your Will" is based
on Word for the Mac. Although it's easy enough to translate much of the
content to Word 2003, you should at least be aware of that.

Although John is answering your queries, you've actually landed in a
discussion group for users of Mac versions of Word. Here's where all the
groups are listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/FlyoutOverview.mspx

Clive Huggan
============

Without interrupting John's advice on your specific situation: you might
like to look at the section on styles beginning on page 89 of some notes on
the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). My practices are
very similar to his.The notes are formatted following those practices.

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Note: In Word 2008, which I don't use yet, some of this information may not
apply, or may be accessible through a different interface. If that causes
problems, post back and someone will help you further.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

 

[Bod]

....and TOC styles...

Thanks. I didn't see anything saying it's for Mac but I'll use the list you
sent.
I have replaced my "ordinary" style with the Body Text and made the Heading
styles based on "No style".
Do you know if it is recommended that users base the Body Text on Normal or

Oops! Just spotted you're using Word 2003. "Bend Word to Your Will" is based
on Word for the Mac. Although it's easy enough to translate much of the
content to Word 2003, you should at least be aware of that.

Although John is answering your queries, you've actually landed in a
discussion group for users of Mac versions of Word. Here's where all the
groups are listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/FlyoutOverview.mspx

Clive Huggan
============

Without interrupting John's advice on your specific situation: you might
like to look at the section on styles beginning on page 89 of some notes on
the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). My practices are
very similar to his.The notes are formatted following those practices.

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Note: In Word 2008, which I don't use yet, some of this information may not
apply, or may be accessible through a different interface. If that causes
problems, post back and someone will help you further.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

 

[Clive Huggan]

Bod,

John McGhie, I and others recommend basing the style you use for body text
on "no style". I discuss this on pages 100 and 173-176 (the latter covers
the inheritance of particular styles in column 2) in "Bend Word to Your
Will" (you probably won't have any difficulty in making the Mac/PC
interpretation for this material, except that the equivalent of
"Command-Shift-s" is "Ctrl-Shift-s"). Also, page 120 discusses why I would
not use the default Body Text style, although I don't believe John has the
same reservations.

I base TOC on my style "bt", i.e. the style I apply to body text.

You can see all the inheritances I use by opening the styles'
characteristics in "Bend Word to Your Will".

Word's styles are very powerful but to use them really well requires some
study, hence my ref to "Bend Word to Your Will" rather than giving a
one-second answer.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

Thanks. I didn't see anything saying it's for Mac but I'll use the list you
sent.
I have replaced my "ordinary" style with the Body Text and made the Heading
styles based on "No style".
Do you know if it is recommended that users base the Body Text on Normal or

Oops! Just spotted you're using Word 2003. "Bend Word to Your Will" is based
on Word for the Mac. Although it's easy enough to translate much of the
content to Word 2003, you should at least be aware of that.

Although John is answering your queries, you've actually landed in a
discussion group for users of Mac versions of Word. Here's where all the
groups are listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/FlyoutOverview.mspx

Clive Huggan
============

Without interrupting John's advice on your specific situation: you might
like to look at the section on styles beginning on page 89 of some notes on
the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). My practices are
very similar to his.The notes are formatted following those practices.

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Note: In Word 2008, which I don't use yet, some of this information may not
apply, or may be accessible through a different interface. If that causes
problems, post back and someone will help you further.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

 

[Jimmy King]

This is a large help as I have little knowhow concerning Word. I have used
Word 5.0a on a Mac and now trying to use Word 2007. Most of my old docs do
not port over so, I am looking at a lot of material. I am just trying to
write a story about my life. (not going to publish it) However, thank all of
you folks for the info I have found here! Thanks!!

Bod,

John McGhie, I and others recommend basing the style you use for body text
on "no style". I discuss this on pages 100 and 173-176 (the latter covers
the inheritance of particular styles in column 2) in "Bend Word to Your
Will" (you probably won't have any difficulty in making the Mac/PC
interpretation for this material, except that the equivalent of
"Command-Shift-s" is "Ctrl-Shift-s"). Also, page 120 discusses why I would
not use the default Body Text style, although I don't believe John has the
same reservations.

I base TOC on my style "bt", i.e. the style I apply to body text.

You can see all the inheritances I use by opening the styles'
characteristics in "Bend Word to Your Will".

Word's styles are very powerful but to use them really well requires some
study, hence my ref to "Bend Word to Your Will" rather than giving a
one-second answer.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

Thanks. I didn't see anything saying it's for Mac but I'll use the list you
sent.
I have replaced my "ordinary" style with the Body Text and made the Heading
styles based on "No style".
Do you know if it is recommended that users base the Body Text on Normal or

Oops! Just spotted you're using Word 2003. "Bend Word to Your Will" is based
on Word for the Mac. Although it's easy enough to translate much of the
content to Word 2003, you should at least be aware of that.

Although John is answering your queries, you've actually landed in a
discussion group for users of Mac versions of Word. Here's where all the
groups are listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/FlyoutOverview.mspx

Clive Huggan
============

On 13/11/08 12:47 PM, in article
C541D253.3CF64%[email protected], "Clive Huggan"


Without interrupting John's advice on your specific situation: you might
like to look at the section on styles beginning on page 89 of some notes on
the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). My practices are
very similar to his.The notes are formatted following those practices.

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Note: In Word 2008, which I don't use yet, some of this information may not
apply, or may be accessible through a different interface. If that causes
problems, post back and someone will help you further.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

 

[Clive Huggan]

Good to hear from you, Jimmy!

All is not lost with porting the old documents over.

You can open Mac Word 5 documents in Word 2004 and earlier Mac versions, so
your best option would be to get someone with a Mac to save them in a
current format. For longevity and to ensure future electronic access to, for
example, relatives who want to quote from your magnum opus, and to minimize
the chances of loss by giving a CD to various relatives -- all highly
relevant to the documents you are creating -- and given that you have Word
2007, which introduced the next-generation ".docx" file format, you should
save the old documents in .docx format. However, I vaguely remember that
Word 2008 -- the first Mac version to provide ".docx" format -- won't open
Mac Word 5 documents (I don't use 2008, so can't confirm). If that's the
case you may need to make it a 2-stage process: someone with a Mac opens the
Word 5 documents and saves in a more modern Word file format (.doc), then
you open them in Word 2007 and save in .docx format.

The above is tentative; wait till one of my more learned, 2008-owning
colleagues comments. ;-)

If you wanted to do it in one hit and didn't mind making a modest
investment, MacLink Plus (http://www.dataviz.com/products/maclinkplus/)
would do it in one step -- it's an excellent product, but a Mac one.

Another option is to print the Word 5 documents (which you may well have
done already) and put them through OCR software.

As for investing time to learn to use styles, it will be especially worth it
if you are going to output from Word, because you have so much "global"
control of the document's appearance. Also, take a look at Appendix A on
formatting for "minimum maintenance", on page 164 of "Bend Word to Your
Will" -- these are tips that will save you hours of frustration.

Your remarks remind me I need to write my own story -- I've done 30 pages of
bullet points, but they don't mean much to others...

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================

This is a large help as I have little knowhow concerning Word. I have used
Word 5.0a on a Mac and now trying to use Word 2007. Most of my old docs do
not port over so, I am looking at a lot of material. I am just trying to
write a story about my life. (not going to publish it) However, thank all of
you folks for the info I have found here! Thanks!!

Bod,

John McGhie, I and others recommend basing the style you use for body text
on "no style". I discuss this on pages 100 and 173-176 (the latter covers
the inheritance of particular styles in column 2) in "Bend Word to Your
Will" (you probably won't have any difficulty in making the Mac/PC
interpretation for this material, except that the equivalent of
"Command-Shift-s" is "Ctrl-Shift-s"). Also, page 120 discusses why I would
not use the default Body Text style, although I don't believe John has the
same reservations.

I base TOC on my style "bt", i.e. the style I apply to body text.

You can see all the inheritances I use by opening the styles'
characteristics in "Bend Word to Your Will".

Word's styles are very powerful but to use them really well requires some
study, hence my ref to "Bend Word to Your Will" rather than giving a
one-second answer.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

Thanks. I didn't see anything saying it's for Mac but I'll use the list you
sent.
I have replaced my "ordinary" style with the Body Text and made the Heading
styles based on "No style".
Do you know if it is recommended that users base the Body Text on Normal or
on No style?

:


Oops! Just spotted you're using Word 2003. "Bend Word to Your Will" is
based
on Word for the Mac. Although it's easy enough to translate much of the
content to Word 2003, you should at least be aware of that.

Although John is answering your queries, you've actually landed in a
discussion group for users of Mac versions of Word. Here's where all the
groups are listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/FlyoutOverview.mspx

Clive Huggan
============

On 13/11/08 12:47 PM, in article
C541D253.3CF64%[email protected], "Clive Huggan"


Without interrupting John's advice on your specific situation: you might
like to look at the section on styles beginning on page 89 of some notes
on
the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). My practices are
very similar to his.The notes are formatted following those practices.

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide
to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read
the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Note: In Word 2008, which I don't use yet, some of this information may
not
apply, or may be accessible through a different interface. If that causes
problems, post back and someone will help you further.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Clive:

You are correct: Word 5a is the old Windows Word 2 format. Word 2000 on
the PC and Word 2004 were the last versions that had the converter.

But the format is mainly text, so File>Open>"Recover Text from Any File"
will get a readable version on Word 2007 (with no formatting).

Cheers

Good to hear from you, Jimmy!

All is not lost with porting the old documents over.

You can open Mac Word 5 documents in Word 2004 and earlier Mac versions, so
your best option would be to get someone with a Mac to save them in a
current format. For longevity and to ensure future electronic access to, for
example, relatives who want to quote from your magnum opus, and to minimize
the chances of loss by giving a CD to various relatives -- all highly
relevant to the documents you are creating -- and given that you have Word
2007, which introduced the next-generation ".docx" file format, you should
save the old documents in .docx format. However, I vaguely remember that
Word 2008 -- the first Mac version to provide ".docx" format -- won't open
Mac Word 5 documents (I don't use 2008, so can't confirm). If that's the
case you may need to make it a 2-stage process: someone with a Mac opens the
Word 5 documents and saves in a more modern Word file format (.doc), then
you open them in Word 2007 and save in .docx format.

The above is tentative; wait till one of my more learned, 2008-owning
colleagues comments. ;-)

If you wanted to do it in one hit and didn't mind making a modest
investment, MacLink Plus (http://www.dataviz.com/products/maclinkplus/)
would do it in one step -- it's an excellent product, but a Mac one.

Another option is to print the Word 5 documents (which you may well have
done already) and put them through OCR software.

As for investing time to learn to use styles, it will be especially worth it
if you are going to output from Word, because you have so much "global"
control of the document's appearance. Also, take a look at Appendix A on
formatting for "minimum maintenance", on page 164 of "Bend Word to Your
Will" -- these are tips that will save you hours of frustration.

Your remarks remind me I need to write my own story -- I've done 30 pages of
bullet points, but they don't mean much to others...

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================

This is a large help as I have little knowhow concerning Word. I have used
Word 5.0a on a Mac and now trying to use Word 2007. Most of my old docs do
not port over so, I am looking at a lot of material. I am just trying to
write a story about my life. (not going to publish it) However, thank all of
you folks for the info I have found here! Thanks!!

Bod,

John McGhie, I and others recommend basing the style you use for body text
on "no style". I discuss this on pages 100 and 173-176 (the latter covers
the inheritance of particular styles in column 2) in "Bend Word to Your
Will" (you probably won't have any difficulty in making the Mac/PC
interpretation for this material, except that the equivalent of
"Command-Shift-s" is "Ctrl-Shift-s"). Also, page 120 discusses why I would
not use the default Body Text style, although I don't believe John has the
same reservations.

I base TOC on my style "bt", i.e. the style I apply to body text.

You can see all the inheritances I use by opening the styles'
characteristics in "Bend Word to Your Will".

Word's styles are very powerful but to use them really well requires some
study, hence my ref to "Bend Word to Your Will" rather than giving a
one-second answer.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

On 14/11/08 7:39 AM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "Bod"

Thanks. I didn't see anything saying it's for Mac but I'll use the list
you
sent.
I have replaced my "ordinary" style with the Body Text and made the Heading
styles based on "No style".
Do you know if it is recommended that users base the Body Text on Normal or
on No style?

:


Oops! Just spotted you're using Word 2003. "Bend Word to Your Will" is
based
on Word for the Mac. Although it's easy enough to translate much of the
content to Word 2003, you should at least be aware of that.

Although John is answering your queries, you've actually landed in a
discussion group for users of Mac versions of Word. Here's where all the
groups are listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/FlyoutOverview.mspx

Clive Huggan
============

On 13/11/08 12:47 PM, in article
C541D253.3CF64%[email protected], "Clive Huggan"


Without interrupting John's advice on your specific situation: you might
like to look at the section on styles beginning on page 89 of some notes
on
the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which
are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). My practices are
very similar to his.The notes are formatted following those practices.

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide
to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read
the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can
select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Note: In Word 2008, which I don't use yet, some of this information may
not
apply, or may be accessible through a different interface. If that causes
problems, post back and someone will help you further.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[CyberTaz]

Hello Clive;

If you wanted to do it in one hit and didn't mind making a modest
investment, MacLink Plus (http://www.dataviz.com/products/maclinkplus/)
would do it in one step -- it's an excellent product, but a Mac one.

DataViz also produces a Windows equivalent by the name of Conversions
Plus... I haven't used it but understand it's as good as the Mac version.

http://www.dataviz.com/products/conversionsplus/index.html

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Clive Huggan]

John,

Thanks for the comment re File>Open>"Recover Text from Any File" will get a
readable version on Word 2007 (with no formatting). Having no formatting
would actually be advantageous as it would be a starting point for applying
styles. Jimmy, for the context, see the article "Document from someone else
‹ checking and fixing formatting of" starting on page 132 of "Bend Word to
Your Will" and particularly the dash-point starting "Go through the new
document and apply styles. It¹s usually quicker ...".

Cheers,

Clive
=====

Hi Clive:

You are correct: Word 5a is the old Windows Word 2 format. Word 2000 on
the PC and Word 2004 were the last versions that had the converter.

But the format is mainly text, so File>Open>"Recover Text from Any File"
will get a readable version on Word 2007 (with no formatting).

Cheers

Good to hear from you, Jimmy!

All is not lost with porting the old documents over.

You can open Mac Word 5 documents in Word 2004 and earlier Mac versions, so
your best option would be to get someone with a Mac to save them in a
current format. For longevity and to ensure future electronic access to, for
example, relatives who want to quote from your magnum opus, and to minimize
the chances of loss by giving a CD to various relatives -- all highly
relevant to the documents you are creating -- and given that you have Word
2007, which introduced the next-generation ".docx" file format, you should
save the old documents in .docx format. However, I vaguely remember that
Word 2008 -- the first Mac version to provide ".docx" format -- won't open
Mac Word 5 documents (I don't use 2008, so can't confirm). If that's the
case you may need to make it a 2-stage process: someone with a Mac opens the
Word 5 documents and saves in a more modern Word file format (.doc), then
you open them in Word 2007 and save in .docx format.

The above is tentative; wait till one of my more learned, 2008-owning
colleagues comments. ;-)

If you wanted to do it in one hit and didn't mind making a modest
investment, MacLink Plus (http://www.dataviz.com/products/maclinkplus/)
would do it in one step -- it's an excellent product, but a Mac one.

Another option is to print the Word 5 documents (which you may well have
done already) and put them through OCR software.

As for investing time to learn to use styles, it will be especially worth it
if you are going to output from Word, because you have so much "global"
control of the document's appearance. Also, take a look at Appendix A on
formatting for "minimum maintenance", on page 164 of "Bend Word to Your
Will" -- these are tips that will save you hours of frustration.

Your remarks remind me I need to write my own story -- I've done 30 pages of
bullet points, but they don't mean much to others...

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================

This is a large help as I have little knowhow concerning Word. I have used
Word 5.0a on a Mac and now trying to use Word 2007. Most of my old docs do
not port over so, I am looking at a lot of material. I am just trying to
write a story about my life. (not going to publish it) However, thank all of
you folks for the info I have found here! Thanks!!

:

Bod,

John McGhie, I and others recommend basing the style you use for body text
on "no style". I discuss this on pages 100 and 173-176 (the latter covers
the inheritance of particular styles in column 2) in "Bend Word to Your
Will" (you probably won't have any difficulty in making the Mac/PC
interpretation for this material, except that the equivalent of
"Command-Shift-s" is "Ctrl-Shift-s"). Also, page 120 discusses why I would
not use the default Body Text style, although I don't believe John has the
same reservations.

I base TOC on my style "bt", i.e. the style I apply to body text.

You can see all the inheritances I use by opening the styles'
characteristics in "Bend Word to Your Will".

Word's styles are very powerful but to use them really well requires some
study, hence my ref to "Bend Word to Your Will" rather than giving a
one-second answer.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

On 14/11/08 7:39 AM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "Bod"

Thanks. I didn't see anything saying it's for Mac but I'll use the list
you
sent.
I have replaced my "ordinary" style with the Body Text and made the
Heading
styles based on "No style".
Do you know if it is recommended that users base the Body Text on Normal
or
on No style?

:


Oops! Just spotted you're using Word 2003. "Bend Word to Your Will" is
based
on Word for the Mac. Although it's easy enough to translate much of the
content to Word 2003, you should at least be aware of that.

Although John is answering your queries, you've actually landed in a
discussion group for users of Mac versions of Word. Here's where all the
groups are listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/FlyoutOverview.mspx

Clive Huggan
============

On 13/11/08 12:47 PM, in article
C541D253.3CF64%[email protected], "Clive Huggan"


Without interrupting John's advice on your specific situation: you might
like to look at the section on styles beginning on page 89 of some notes
on
the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which
are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). My practices
are
very similar to his.The notes are formatted following those practices.

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically
and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you
decide
to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read
the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can
select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Note: In Word 2008, which I don't use yet, some of this information may
not
apply, or may be accessible through a different interface. If that
causes
problems, post back and someone will help you further.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
=============

 

[Clive Huggan]

Thanks for the tip, Bob!

Clive
======

Hello Clive;




DataViz also produces a Windows equivalent by the name of Conversions
Plus... I haven't used it but understand it's as good as the Mac version.

http://www.dataviz.com/products/conversionsplus/index.html

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac