Sync problems still remain in the 12.0.1 update

[Kerry]

So I've tested 12.0.1 and sync to see if the same issues (mainly dups)
remain. They do. If you create a task and it sync's to iCal and then
you change anything in the iCal task, the new information will sync
back to Entourage but as a new item. The original item will be there
with the original info and the new item will have the new information.
Deleting the original item will have no effect in iCal but also
deleting the new item in Entourage will not delete the item in iCal.

Additionally, now if you scan your calendar, all all day entries a
couple months back in the calendar to the building will be duplicated.
This happened before the upgrade. To test whether this occurred as a
result of the dup of the task, I restored my backup iCal and my backup
of the Entourage main identity and both calendars were correct,
without the dups (made sure I had turned sync off before reverting).
So the dup that is created in Entourage for some reasons affects all
day events and they then get dup'd in entourage and iCal.

To avoid this, I found that if I made any changes after creating a
calendar event, the only safe way of adding or changing information
was to do it in Entourage. This replicates fine to iCal and then to
the Palm. However, if you change or add any information on the Palm or
in iCal, you inevitably get a duplicated record in iCal (as above) and
then the calendar's all day events for some reason dup.

This behavior is specific to iCal and does not happen if Entourage
sync is turned off and you just use iCal. Problems do turn up in this
scenario also, a problem with Apple's sync services, but Entourage
adds a different layer of issues.

 

[John C. Welch]

So I've tested 12.0.1 and sync to see if the same issues (mainly dups)
remain. They do. If you create a task and it sync's to iCal and then
you change anything in the iCal task, the new information will sync
back to Entourage but as a new item. The original item will be there
with the original info and the new item will have the new information.
Deleting the original item will have no effect in iCal but also
deleting the new item in Entourage will not delete the item in iCal.

More details on the task. There are known Apple bugs with regard to tasks in
Sync Services, and Microsoft can't do much about them.

Additionally, now if you scan your calendar, all all day entries a
couple months back in the calendar to the building will be duplicated.
This happened before the upgrade. To test whether this occurred as a
result of the dup of the task, I restored my backup iCal and my backup
of the Entourage main identity and both calendars were correct,
without the dups (made sure I had turned sync off before reverting).
So the dup that is created in Entourage for some reasons affects all
day events and they then get dup'd in entourage and iCal.

Another Sync Services issue. Recurring all day events are notorious for
that. With some patience you can get them to calm down, but again, that's
something Apple really has to fix.

To avoid this, I found that if I made any changes after creating a
calendar event, the only safe way of adding or changing information
was to do it in Entourage. This replicates fine to iCal and then to
the Palm. However, if you change or add any information on the Palm or
in iCal, you inevitably get a duplicated record in iCal (as above) and
then the calendar's all day events for some reason dup.

This behavior is specific to iCal and does not happen if Entourage
sync is turned off and you just use iCal. Problems do turn up in this
scenario also, a problem with Apple's sync services, but Entourage
adds a different layer of issues.

Sync Services is better in Mac OS X 10.5 than Mac OS X 10.4, but it still
has some issues with applications that don't deal with data in the precise
same way. The translations back and forth can get weird. Also, I find the
Truth DB to not be the most stable thing in the world.

 

[Kerry]

More details on the task. There are known Apple bugs with regard to tasks in
Sync Services, and Microsoft can't do much about them.




Another Sync Services issue. Recurring all day events are notorious for
that. With some patience you can get them to calm down, but again, that's
something Apple really has to fix.





Sync Services is better in Mac OS X 10.5 than Mac OS X 10.4, but it still
has some issues with applications that don't deal with data in the precise
same way. The translations back and forth can get weird. Also, I find the
Truth DB to not be the most stable thing in the world.

I agree with you that there are issues with Apple's sync services and
Markspace is aware of these plus the Entourage issues, which are
different and have identified both to these companies. Over the last 3
weeks I have just used iCal and Addressbook and they are certainly no
Entourage. A couple of errors have arisen but nothing like when I add
entourage to the mix.

In terms of tasks or calendar events dup'g, what I outlined
specifically happens with Entourage and does not occur if you are only
using iCal. Markspace has identified the specific Entourage dup issue
to Microsoft as I have. I have an ongoing open case with them since
January 24 08 and continue to provide feedback looking for a
resolution. Unfortunately although Microsoft tech support is aware of
the problem and continues to send info to the MBU, they are not
getting feedback. There only offered resolution to me was a refund
upon return.

The events I mention that will dup after any dup is created in
Entourage by modifying an event in iCal or on my Palm has specifically
to do with All Day events and will always duplicate once an iCal entry
is modified causing that entry to dup in the Calendar. See Corentin's
reference on this behavior. We use the same techniques to get rid of
them (they're not categorized so a search of all day events not
categorized will turn up these dups).

A backup is good as long as you know when the above behavior will
instigate those results. So before I tested I made a backup of my main
identity and iCal. Once I observed the behavior and results, I
reverted to the backup and the dups were not there. I replicated the
behavior three times consistently and have reported to Microsoft that
12.0.1 does not solve one of the most pressing problems in Entourage.

Finally, and it has been a consistent behavior but unpredicable as to
when it will occur, is that if you don't catch these dups, as they
will start manifesting in background over time with activity, sync
services will eventually develop problems. In Missing Sync, there is
an error reporting system for sync services that was added in 12.0.1.
At some point, when you go to start Missing Sync, an error will pop up
that iCal is reporting errors through sync services. To clear this
involves multiple steps. Even following the recommended steps from the
Missing Sync website, the error may not clear. I've found that I need
to often do this multiple times and then the error is cleared and sync
services is now stabilized. My theory is that as these dups occur and
the unique identifiers between items breaks down sync services runs
into trouble. I've identified this to Microsoft as a significant
problem due to the time it takes to clear the error thus stabilizing
sync services so that it can do a proper sync to the handheld.

Yes, although there are problems in sync services itself, adding in
Entourage multiplies those problems. Neither just using iCal is
acceptable nor the results that happen when using Entourage. I feel
I've been thrown back ten plus years in the way I work.

 

[John C. Welch]

I agree with you that there are issues with Apple's sync services and
Markspace is aware of these plus the Entourage issues, which are
different and have identified both to these companies. Over the last 3
weeks I have just used iCal and Addressbook and they are certainly no
Entourage. A couple of errors have arisen but nothing like when I add
entourage to the mix.

That would make sense, as at that point, you have only one computer source
for data, so there's no chance of conflict whatsoever. Sync Services needs
work on that.

In terms of tasks or calendar events dup'g, what I outlined
specifically happens with Entourage and does not occur if you are only
using iCal. Markspace has identified the specific Entourage dup issue
to Microsoft as I have. I have an ongoing open case with them since
January 24 08 and continue to provide feedback looking for a
resolution. Unfortunately although Microsoft tech support is aware of
the problem and continues to send info to the MBU, they are not
getting feedback. There only offered resolution to me was a refund
upon return.

Get Apple to support categories, or Microsoft to delete them out of both
outlook and entourage, and many sync problems will go away. Make both
companies support the same standard in exactly the same way, and many
problems go away. Good luck on that, since both are convinced they're right.

The events I mention that will dup after any dup is created in
Entourage by modifying an event in iCal or on my Palm has specifically
to do with All Day events and will always duplicate once an iCal entry
is modified causing that entry to dup in the Calendar. See Corentin's
reference on this behavior. We use the same techniques to get rid of
them (they're not categorized so a search of all day events not
categorized will turn up these dups).

All Day events are a known issue. If they're recurring all day events, then
it's an even bigger issue. Since iCal is unlikely to create an event it
can't handle, the amount of errors are smaller. When another application
creates an all day event, particularly recurring ones, iCal kinda freaks
out.

A backup is good as long as you know when the above behavior will
instigate those results. So before I tested I made a backup of my main
identity and iCal. Once I observed the behavior and results, I
reverted to the backup and the dups were not there. I replicated the
behavior three times consistently and have reported to Microsoft that
12.0.1 does not solve one of the most pressing problems in Entourage.

If it's an Apple problem, and the all day / recurring task/event issues are,
what, precisely, can the Mac BU do about it?

Finally, and it has been a consistent behavior but unpredicable as to
when it will occur, is that if you don't catch these dups, as they
will start manifesting in background over time with activity, sync
services will eventually develop problems. In Missing Sync, there is
an error reporting system for sync services that was added in 12.0.1.
At some point, when you go to start Missing Sync, an error will pop up
that iCal is reporting errors through sync services. To clear this
involves multiple steps. Even following the recommended steps from the
Missing Sync website, the error may not clear. I've found that I need
to often do this multiple times and then the error is cleared and sync
services is now stabilized. My theory is that as these dups occur and
the unique identifiers between items breaks down sync services runs
into trouble. I've identified this to Microsoft as a significant
problem due to the time it takes to clear the error thus stabilizing
sync services so that it can do a proper sync to the handheld.

Again, unless the bug specifically and totally lies within E'rage, there is
little to nothing the Mac BU can do about it.

Yes, although there are problems in sync services itself, adding in
Entourage multiplies those problems. Neither just using iCal is
acceptable nor the results that happen when using Entourage. I feel
I've been thrown back ten plus years in the way I work.

Adding in any non-Apple program multiplies those problems unless that
application is a clone of the Apple ones.