Tables need menu commands to clearly define internal and external.

M

Mark

REQUEST
Tables need menu commands to clearly define internal and external borders.
This will greatly simplify customized layout.

Presently, commands are avilable through the cell Properties dialog and for
table Properties dialog and through the Borders and Shading format command.
The three command structures are not well integrated as becomes very clear
when all three commands are applied in the same table. The outcomes are often
unknown and even unstable.

REQUIREMENT
Table border commands should be moved into one menu structure - the Table
menu item should be used. And selection boxes for internal and external
borders are required.

Applying a table border alters "empty" space. Is this space removed from the
table or from the window outside the table?

2 table selection boxes are required to specify that internal and external
borders (when applied) take space away from the table interior or from the
outside window. This allows FrontPage designers to develop with complete
control over border and cell dimensioning.

METHOD
All table border command control is implemented from the Table/ Properties
menu. Table and cell properties include an interface with selection boxes for
author control of table impact on design space.

Controls are implemented as follows.
Light outside border color (existing, 2003 on Format/Borders and Shading menu)
Light inside border color (existing, 2003 on Format/Borders and Shading menu)
Dark ouside border color (existing, 2003 on Format/Borders and Shading menu)
Dark inside border color (existing, 2003 on Format/Borders and Shading menu)
Solid border color (new)
Solid border width (new)
Internal border width (default "0", new)
Internal border takes space from table cell (selected by default, new)
External border width (default "0", new)
External border takes space from design window (selected by default, new)

If the outside boder's default 'take space from design window' is
deselected, space for the outside border will be taken from the table cell's
interior. The cell's "empty" space will shrink to match the outside border
width if the outside border's pixel width is greater than the inside border.
The window space around the table will remain unchanged by the internalized
outside border.

When the outside border is internalized (deselect option box) it will
overlay the internal border. Therefore the inside border must be manually
increased by the table author to permit its display. The inside border width
value must be set to greater than the outside border width value.

If the default 'take space from table cell' (internal border) is deselected,
space will be taken from the design window. The table cell's internal
dimensions will remain unchanged.

When the inside border is externalized (deselect option box) the inside
border will overlay the outside border. Therefore the outside border is
increased by the table author to permit its display. The outside border width
value must be set to greater than the inside border width value.

CONSIDERATION
The above method is dependent on a consistent application of WW2. Currently
method exists to clearly permit the establishment of design control over
table dimensioning, as indicated above. Presently FrontPage "activates" WW2's
table properties to permit authoring of internal and external borders.
However, the authorship is frighteningly uncontrolled. The FrontPage
application's product must be standardized with more consistency to allow
author control of borders and dimnensioning.
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

Good point
- If, and when, browsers recognize border vs frame vs rule for tables
(as recommended by W3C at http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html#borders)

I suspect broader adoption of CSS will eventually deprecate those stds



| REQUEST
| Tables need menu commands to clearly define internal and external borders.
| This will greatly simplify customized layout.
|
| Presently, commands are avilable through the cell Properties dialog and for
| table Properties dialog and through the Borders and Shading format command.
| The three command structures are not well integrated as becomes very clear
| when all three commands are applied in the same table. The outcomes are often
| unknown and even unstable.
|
| REQUIREMENT
| Table border commands should be moved into one menu structure - the Table
| menu item should be used. And selection boxes for internal and external
| borders are required.
|
| Applying a table border alters "empty" space. Is this space removed from the
| table or from the window outside the table?
|
| 2 table selection boxes are required to specify that internal and external
| borders (when applied) take space away from the table interior or from the
| outside window. This allows FrontPage designers to develop with complete
| control over border and cell dimensioning.
|
| METHOD
| All table border command control is implemented from the Table/ Properties
| menu. Table and cell properties include an interface with selection boxes for
| author control of table impact on design space.
|
| Controls are implemented as follows.
| Light outside border color (existing, 2003 on Format/Borders and Shading menu)
| Light inside border color (existing, 2003 on Format/Borders and Shading menu)
| Dark ouside border color (existing, 2003 on Format/Borders and Shading menu)
| Dark inside border color (existing, 2003 on Format/Borders and Shading menu)
| Solid border color (new)
| Solid border width (new)
| Internal border width (default "0", new)
| Internal border takes space from table cell (selected by default, new)
| External border width (default "0", new)
| External border takes space from design window (selected by default, new)
|
| If the outside boder's default 'take space from design window' is
| deselected, space for the outside border will be taken from the table cell's
| interior. The cell's "empty" space will shrink to match the outside border
| width if the outside border's pixel width is greater than the inside border.
| The window space around the table will remain unchanged by the internalized
| outside border.
|
| When the outside border is internalized (deselect option box) it will
| overlay the internal border. Therefore the inside border must be manually
| increased by the table author to permit its display. The inside border width
| value must be set to greater than the outside border width value.
|
| If the default 'take space from table cell' (internal border) is deselected,
| space will be taken from the design window. The table cell's internal
| dimensions will remain unchanged.
|
| When the inside border is externalized (deselect option box) the inside
| border will overlay the outside border. Therefore the outside border is
| increased by the table author to permit its display. The outside border width
| value must be set to greater than the inside border width value.
|
| CONSIDERATION
| The above method is dependent on a consistent application of WW2. Currently
| method exists to clearly permit the establishment of design control over
| table dimensioning, as indicated above. Presently FrontPage "activates" WW2's
| table properties to permit authoring of internal and external borders.
| However, the authorship is frighteningly uncontrolled. The FrontPage
| application's product must be standardized with more consistency to allow
| author control of borders and dimnensioning.
|
 
M

Murray

The table border HTML attributes that you list are all IE proprietary, and
will most likely never become part of the mainstream HTML definition. The
solution is to use CSS to border your tables.
 

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