Tables: Rows & Columns

R

Rafael Montserrat

OS 10.2.4
Word 2004

Hi,

I'm studying Tables to see if I can use it as a simple and readily
accessable spreadsheet.

I'm confused about what Tables means by rows and columns. My understanding
is that a column is vertical and a row, horizontal. But when I have the
"insert table box" open, it says: columns...5 rows...2.

What shows up is a table with two vertical rows of five horizontal boxes.

I don't get it.

Also, again refering to tables as a spreadsheet, does tables do more than
addition. Does it do subtraction, multiplication and division?

Thanks,

Rafael
 
D

Daiya Mitchell

Hi Rafael,

When I do Insert | Table with the default 5 columns and 2 rows, that's
exactly what I get.

I'm afraid I am unable to wrap my mind around what "two vertical rows" might
mean, but I'll just try to describe what I see.

Columns are boxes stacked on top of each other--and there are five sets of
boxes stacked on top of each other.

Rows are boxes sitting side by side--and there are two sets of boxes sitting
side by side.

Are you getting something different?

It is true that the shape of an individual box is more horizontal than
vertical.

It is also maybe a tad counter-intuitive that you enter a larger number for
the vertical aspect of a table and get a table whose shape is more
horizontal than vertical, but I think that's just how tables work.

Re question 2, start with the Help topic "Perform calculations in a table".
I don't do this myself, I just use Excel or the OS Calculator, but it should
cover the basics.

Daiya
 
C

CyberTaz

Like Daiya, I have no idea what you meah by "vertical rows" - Rows are
*horizontal*, columns are * vertical* - so what you _seem_ to be describing
is exactly what you _should_ get = 5 columns (cells) wide by 2 rows (cells)
tall... or one row of 5 cells stacked on top of another.

As to your original point, doing calculations in a Word table as a matter of
"simple and readily accessable" is a self-contradiction in terms. Just about
any type of calculations *can* be done in a table, but tables don't work
like spreadsheets. For one thing, each calc has to be inserted as a separate
field. Another is that those fields *do not* automaticaly recalculate when
you change precedent values in the table. If those aren't reason enough I
could list about a half dozen more.

Do you calcs in a spreadsheet or Insert an Excel object into the doc -
depending on what you are actually looking to accomplish... if you just want
to be able to do quick & easy basic math without saving the values (but be
able to use the results in a doc) try the Dashboard Calculator widget.
 
C

CyberTaz

It is also maybe a tad counter-intuitive that you enter a larger number
for
the vertical aspect of a table and get a table whose shape is more
horizontal than vertical, but I think that's just how tables work.

Hi Daiya -

I believe the rational behind it is that when you create a table you more
frequently know how many columns of data to specify, but the number of
requisite rows is more likely to be uncertain. The structure of table is
such that changing the number of columns *can* be done it has to be done
'manually', whereas new rows are added 'automatically' as you tab fro the
last cell in the currenly last row. Combine that with the fact that most
docs are far more limited in width than they are in height - a table can
only span margin to margin in width, but can go on for several pages in
height.
 
C

Clive Huggan

Hi Daiya -

I believe the rational behind it is that when you create a table you more
frequently know how many columns of data to specify, but the number of
requisite rows is more likely to be uncertain. The structure of table is
such that changing the number of columns *can* be done it has to be done
'manually', whereas new rows are added 'automatically' as you tab fro the
last cell in the currenly last row. Combine that with the fact that most
docs are far more limited in width than they are in height - a table can
only span margin to margin in width, but can go on for several pages in
height.

Hello Rafael,

For *simple* calculations you can use the ToolsCalculate command. You can
implement it via the Tools menu -> Customize -> Customize keyboard ->
Categories: All Commands -> Commands: ToolsCalculate. I assigned
Command-[equal key] which was the standard keyboard shortcut in Word 5.1
<nostalgic sigh>.

The advantage of this command is that it isn't fazed by blank cells as the
other facility in Word (Table menu -> Formula) is.

I only use this for adding up, such as in invoices, so I tested other
functions for you. These worked (figures shown were in successive columns):

100
!00

By selecting these two cells and keying Command-= the clipboard was loaded
with 200, and this showed in the task bar at the bottom of the document.

Similarly:

100
/2
50 was the answer.

100
*2
200 was the answer

!00
*3
/2
150 was the answer

But

100
50
/2
gave 125 as the answer, i.e. the calculation was 100 + (50/2), not
(100+50)/2

That's essentially why I only use it for adding and subtracting. But in that
context, it's superb: just drag, Command-= and paste in the total.

Ahh... <faint recollection occurs -> looks up "Bend Word to Your Will"> ...
There is a terrific article by the redoubtable Suzanne Barnhill at
http://word.mvps.org/faqs/General/ToolsCalculate.htm (Windows platform, but
that's no problem).

Rafael, you may be interested in this: I find it's a pain having to create
tables from scratch every time, so I have created AutoText entries for the
most common number of columns and border treatments that I use. It's all
described starting on page 115 of "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). So when I want a
4-column table with 1/4-point borders I just key 4cb (which is the AutoText
entry I created) followed by Command-Option-v and voila! ­ the pre-formatted
table appears, exactly as I want!

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================
 
C

Clive Huggan

Hi Daiya -

I believe the rational behind it is that when you create a table you more
frequently know how many columns of data to specify, but the number of
requisite rows is more likely to be uncertain. The structure of table is
such that changing the number of columns *can* be done it has to be done
'manually', whereas new rows are added 'automatically' as you tab fro the
last cell in the currenly last row. Combine that with the fact that most
docs are far more limited in width than they are in height - a table can
only span margin to margin in width, but can go on for several pages in
height.

Hello Rafael,

For *simple* calculations you can use the ToolsCalculate command. You can
implement it via the Tools menu -> Customize -> Customize keyboard ->
Categories: All Commands -> Commands: ToolsCalculate. I assigned
Command-[equal key] which was the standard keyboard shortcut in Word 5.1
<nostalgic sigh>.

The advantage of this command is that it isn't fazed by blank cells as the
other facility in Word (Table menu -> Formula) is.

I only use this for adding up, such as in invoices, so I tested other
functions for you. These worked (figures shown were in successive columns):

100
!00

By selecting these two cells and keying Command-= the clipboard was loaded
with 200, and this showed in the task bar at the bottom of the document.

Similarly:

100
/2
50 was the answer.

100
*2
200 was the answer

!00
*3
/2
150 was the answer

But

100
50
/2
gave 125 as the answer, i.e. the calculation was 100 + (50/2), not
(100+50)/2

That's essentially why I only use it for adding and subtracting. But in that
context, it's superb: just drag, Command-= and paste in the total.

Ahh... <faint recollection occurs -> looks up "Bend Word to Your Will"> ...
There is a terrific article by the redoubtable Suzanne Barnhill at
http://word.mvps.org/faqs/General/ToolsCalculate.htm (Windows platform, but
that's no problem).

Rafael, you may be interested in this: I find it's a pain having to create
tables from scratch every time, so I have created AutoText entries for the
most common number of columns and border treatments that I use. It's all
described starting on page 115 of "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). So when I want a
4-column table with 1/4-point borders I just key 4cb (which is the AutoText
entry I created) followed by Command-Option-v and voila! ­ the pre-formatted
table appears, exactly as I want!

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================
PS: Re http://word.mvps.org/faqs/General/ToolsCalculate.htm


Forgot to mention: If you are using Safari, you will have to click on the
circular arrow (³reload the current page²) button a couple of times.

CH
Cbr
ACT
Oz
===
 
R

Rafael Montserrat

It is also maybe a tad counter-intuitive that you enter a larger number
for
the vertical aspect of a table and get a table whose shape is more
horizontal than vertical, but I think that's just how tables work.

Hi Daiya -

I believe the rational behind it is that when you create a table you more
frequently know how many columns of data to specify, but the number of
requisite rows is more likely to be uncertain. The structure of table is
such that changing the number of columns *can* be done it has to be done
'manually', whereas new rows are added 'automatically' as you tab fro the
last cell in the currenly last row. Combine that with the fact that most
docs are far more limited in width than they are in height - a table can
only span margin to margin in width, but can go on for several pages in
height.

Hello Rafael,

For *simple* calculations you can use the ToolsCalculate command. You can
implement it via the Tools menu -> Customize -> Customize keyboard ->
Categories: All Commands -> Commands: ToolsCalculate. I assigned
Command-[equal key] which was the standard keyboard shortcut in Word 5.1
<nostalgic sigh>.

The advantage of this command is that it isn't fazed by blank cells as the
other facility in Word (Table menu -> Formula) is.

I only use this for adding up, such as in invoices, so I tested other
functions for you. These worked (figures shown were in successive columns):

100
!00

By selecting these two cells and keying Command-= the clipboard was loaded
with 200, and this showed in the task bar at the bottom of the document.

Similarly:

100
/2
50 was the answer.

100
*2
200 was the answer

!00
*3
/2
150 was the answer

But

100
50
/2
gave 125 as the answer, i.e. the calculation was 100 + (50/2), not
(100+50)/2

That's essentially why I only use it for adding and subtracting. But in that
context, it's superb: just drag, Command-= and paste in the total.

Ahh... <faint recollection occurs -> looks up "Bend Word to Your Will"> ...
There is a terrific article by the redoubtable Suzanne Barnhill at
http://word.mvps.org/faqs/General/ToolsCalculate.htm (Windows platform, but
that's no problem).

Rafael, you may be interested in this: I find it's a pain having to create
tables from scratch every time, so I have created AutoText entries for the
most common number of columns and border treatments that I use. It's all
described starting on page 115 of "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). So when I want a
4-column table with 1/4-point borders I just key 4cb (which is the AutoText
entry I created) followed by Command-Option-v and voila! ­ the pre-formatted
table appears, exactly as I want!

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================
PS: Re http://word.mvps.org/faqs/General/ToolsCalculate.htm


Forgot to mention: If you are using Safari, you will have to click on the
circular arrow (³reload the current page²) button a couple of times.

CH
Cbr
ACT
Oz
===


Thanks for the leads and answers.

I see now how I had rows and columns confused.

My first and only spreadsheet was Claris Worksand that was some time ago.

Rafael
 
J

John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]

Hi Rafael:

No. You can't :)

The formulas in Tables are just too unstable, limited, and fiddly to replace
a spreadsheet.

I get two horizontal rows (across the page) and five columns (each two cells
deep down the page).

And if you're confused about rows and columns now, don't even think of
trying a table as a spreadsheet: all your references have to be to numbered
cells :)

Cheers


OS 10.2.4
Word 2004

Hi,

I'm studying Tables to see if I can use it as a simple and readily
accessable spreadsheet.

I'm confused about what Tables means by rows and columns. My understanding
is that a column is vertical and a row, horizontal. But when I have the
"insert table box" open, it says: columns...5 rows...2.

What shows up is a table with two vertical rows of five horizontal boxes.

I don't get it.

Also, again refering to tables as a spreadsheet, does tables do more than
addition. Does it do subtraction, multiplication and division?

Thanks,

Rafael

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top