the designers of the OFFICE 2007 UI must be retarded!

[John Jay Smith]

Sorry but after 20 seconds of using the new interface I ran into so many
problems. This is not typical of MS products. This reminds me of the
disapointment back in 2000 was it?
When everybody was talking about the new netscape 6 browser that would
revolutionize browsing experience.... it was a total flop.

Ok let me start
1) this stupid "ribbon" is too high and takes up too much of the screen.
This would be ok if you would modify the darn thing making it thinner or at
least DETACHING it and putting it on another screen.. but noooooo... this is
another "innovation" of MS just to make it look different!

2) They removed the ability to detach the toolbars... this is the worse
DEGRADE I have ever seen in a product! And one more thing.. they removed the
ability to detach the toolbars.. MUST I SAY IT AGAIN?

3) I stalled almost 10 seconds to try to figure out where the heck they put
the OPEN command! They discuseised it carfullu inside that round button that
looks like a logo so that people will never find it! Smart move! Now your
phone lines will swarm with people crying out... WHERE IS THE OPEN COMMAND!

4) At least if they did that menu correct it would be good... but you see
they are retarded.
You press the button for it to pop up and you have to know that you have to
repress that button to close it. Well sorry but novices will not think of
that, they will press the EXIT closeing their document! An ms developer may
not believe me... WELL LETS put it to a test..
they should give word to 100 people and watch them while they are using it..
THEN they will see what I mean!

more problems... but this is just a rant... first vista, then msn messenger,
then WMP11, now office... they are totally destorying their product line...
and this is from someone who ALWAYS has the latest versions of everything!

 

[rustyfender04]

Don't forget IE7 either.

I say function over form myself...Who cares what it looks like, as long as
it does the job, and in the least amount of time.

 

[John Jay Smith]

I am flexible.. I say let them have the designs they want, but please let
them be configurable!
Indeed in IE7 you cant configure the toolbars as much as you should be able
to.

That ribbon thing in office 2007 really spooked me out.. thank God they
didn't do that for
sharepoint and expression web designer! Not that this was a surprise, I had
seen beta 1 but was wishing they would get smart and make it so you could
change it by now....

 

[Greg Bowers]

Well, I have a different reaction to the new UI.

1. In Word, out of the box it takes up the same space as Word 2000.
You could say they cheated a bit because neither the ruler nor the
horizontal scrollbar are visible. I don't have Word 2003 handy to try
with. My screens have been getting bigger and bigger, so I figure I
can spare a few pixels if the UI is improved.

2. I won't miss it and I doubt if most users will, especially those
who aren't sure what they did to float the darned things.

3. It's a new app. Unless they trot out the same old junk as the
previous version, then something will take a moment to find. For me,
it was the undo button.

4. Hmm. It works just like the Windows Start menu button. That's
been around for almost 11 years. And in Word it says "Exit Word".
That can't be more clear.

I generally like being able to customize my apps - for example, my
code editor, file manager and web browser. In this case though, I
applaud the designers for doing something that isn't always done -
design something and then go with it. Don't shift half the design
onto the user in the name of customizability, when a good designer
would know that the vast majority of users aren't interested or up to
the task of customizing the app. This new approach makes most of the
functionality available to all users, perhaps at the price of
alienating a few power users.

 

[John Jay Smith]

You may be supprized but you are wrong in everything you say!

1) Wrong because people with 2 monitors like me detach ALL the toolbars/
2) People are getting educated more and more about computer use, you may not
miss it
but others will
3) Its a new app? Are you serious man???
4) The windows start menu has a button that says START. Not a logo that
could just be a graphic. But the geniuses in microsoft removed the word
start from the vista start button too.
"""Now the tech support explaining hot do configure things on the vista OS
all over the world will have to say: press that round orb like button with
the flag, well its a flag but it doesnt look like it to open the menu."""
instead of PRESS START!

5) You may eat what you are fed. But I dont. I believe that customization is
important simply
because each person is different and they like to work differently. Also
systems differ in screen resolution, number of screens, dimensions of
screen, and its format (example wide screen).
This very fact DEMANDS the gui to be customizable.

you are insulting hyuman potential. You want a dumbed down application for a
dumbed down planet.

These changes that MS is doing in the GUIs of its main products, you will
see will have a tremendus negative impact to the users of the world. Sales
will drop and people will be ranting all around the world.

Gesh after this linux is starting to look better and better!

 

[Brendan S]

Everyone has differing opions on this kind of issue. When Windows 95 was
released there were a large number of stalwart 3.1/3.11 fans who refused to
accept the new interace. Almost 10 years later we can't even conceive a
Windows without the Start Button. Yes, the new interface is going to take
some people a little time to get used to, but this is actually a major new
version of this product for Microsoft.

People complain that nothing ever changes between versions, I have heard
that complaint a number of times about the 2000/2003 office upgrade. This new
UI for Office matches the Vista UI and provides a new sleek look to the
system.

I use 4 screens on my work desktop and I support many users of 8 or more
screens, and I rarely see anyone detatching their toolbars. Most people keep
their Word config with the standard and formatting toolbars at the top for as
long as they use Word.

The UI is still very configuable, but if you really feel that strongly about
loosing the 2000/2003-style interface then the simplest answer is to not
install 2007. Nobody's forcing you to. Why try and rant at Microsoft for
trying something different for a change? That goes for the Office, Vista, IE7
and WMP11 interfaces.

 

[John Jay Smith]

You theory does not stand. I am not your average Joe.

I have never complained about a change in a program! Not with win95, 98,
XP.. not with any version of office, not even with any other product around!
(with the exception of windowsMe and netscape6 & 8 that were ALL
abominations!)

I am not against change and love it......until now, what I am seeing what MS
is doing with its products!

Trust me, this is not some kind of fantasy I live in. The new GUIs have
problems.. BIG ones.
I have trained hundreds of people ranging from kids to 85 year olds, from
novices to experts.
I know how they think, and I know what they need!

These new GUIs are NOT what they need! I can understand that the old toolbar
things had problems.
But that could be fixed easily and the problem should have been cought
before they released that type of toolbar in the first place. I like new
things. But new things must have improved functionality.

The underlying true reason for the change of gui on vista era products have
nothing to do with improvment of
the "user experience". Its all about marketing.. because they want to show
that these are not just another
update of their products but they are actually something new.
Ok they are new, but they are not for the better.... I want change, I want
improvments.. I just DEMAND they be intelligent ones.. since what they do
now affects millions of users! MS should hire me for my advice.. it seems
that I know more about computer - human interaction than they do!

I will still be using MS products even if the new GUIs stink, I will
adapt..... but that should not stop me from expressing my opinion about
them!

 

[MARKINRO]

I would have to agree. The change from 3.1 to 95 was big change but its an
operating system. I haven't seen much on vista yet but from the previews it
seems to respond like XP with some things MS copied from Apple. From what I
can tell, these are enhancements and I will most likely have the ability to
choose. When I run WinXP, I make it as vanilla as possible -- not fancy
graphics and using the classic windows GUI.

For some odd reason -- focus groups, etc -- this is not true for Office.
Behind WinXP, it has to the be the single most used MS software. I would
REALLY hope the support group is reading these posts. We, the users -- your
customers, are not trying to be cruel but you just forced us all to take
Office classes AGAIN !! I don't remember but the toolbars/menus have been
in office since -- what ? 95 ? So, now after 10 years, we have to
un-learn what we have learned ??? Hey, I'm not Luke Skywalker.

Please, please, PLEASE give us back our menus/toolbars. Good gosh, I hope
this is not a preview of things to come for Windows.

P.S. I just uninstalled 2007 -- will check back when you start to listen.

 

[rustyfender04]

---When I run WinXP, I make it as vanilla as possible -- not fancy
graphics and using the classic windows GUI.---

Same here.

Nothing fancy for me.

 

[Greg Bowers]

Since you're an expert on human interaction and know how "novices to
experts" think, perhaps you can be specific about how the toolbar/menu
GUI could be improved to fix the following problems:

1. How to add more features to a universally acknowledged "bloated"
interface.
2. How to address the number one requested new feature in Word: an
existing feature! People were requesting features that were there,
but just too hard to locate in the GUI.

Then, tell us what is specifically wrong with the new GUI. And don't
say dockable toolbars. I know some love them, but I'm an expert user
and I've found no use for them and I don't believe novice users have a
use for them.

Feel free to read this blog for rationales on many of the new GUI
elements:

http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/default.aspx

Of course, the designers of this GUI know that not everyone will like
it. You obviously don't like it. I've disliked menus for awhile and
the fact they've gotten rid of them immediately improves the GUI for
me. I also like slick looking GUIs, so the look works for me. I
won't really know if it works well until I have to produce a large,
technical document, but first impressions are good.

 

[John Jay Smith]

If I spend 1 hour explaining everything, will MS listen? I can give you such
a detailed explanation why the stupid ribbon is stupid, and how you could
make a better UI. I can make you graphics with arrows and balloons showing
you all their stupid bad ideas... LOL I don't think they will change the
whole
office 2007 concept just because I say so. They made bad decisions and they
aint going back!
Its up to the service pack 1 to try to add the old UI back as an option
after they will see the complaints of all the people and the sales drop,
THEN they will have panicked and will start listening!

So what are we left with? Me ranting, and you sucking up to MS, following
what trash they pull out
with no critical mind!

 

[matt]

I dont know,

i find the ribbon more useful and many things that i would have never found,
i now did. if you are having problems getting use to the new ui give yourself
about 20min to go through powerpoint,word and excel and you will find it much
more helpful.
change isnt always bad

 

[Ben Sweetser]

I have to agree with Matt here. There are things I like and don't like about
the ribbon (It is a little weird when you get extra tabs because you are in a
table or working with a graphic), but it does expose features that have been
there that I didn't find before. I always use keyboard commands to do things
like open, new, save, and print, but I can see the round button being
confusing. Why does the save button end up outside the circle when open is
in the menu? The recent document addition of the pin is nice... I can't
count on all my fingers and toes the number of times I wished I could have
forced an item to remain in the recent list because I had to open several
other files and it got knocked off.

In all the years I've been using Office, my biggest complaints were the
"personalized menus" (which I personally thought were *much* worse of a
design decision than the ribbon because nothing was ever in the same place
twice) and multiple items on the clipboard. Even though the ribbon is
context sensitive, at least it is predictable. Personalized menus are always
the first thing I turn off in Windows and Office. I've never liked multiple
items on the clipboard because it always seems to take longer to figure out
which of the 12 items is the item I wanted to paste than it does to just
re-copy something. This also gets turned off on my systems right away. I've
heard rumors that Microsoft is going to add the ability to go back to tool
bars. I guess we will have to wait and see.

I'm really happy that Microsoft has taken a page from Macromedia's
"Libraries" and "Snippets" (ok, the idea of reusable parts wasn't really new
with Macromedia, but that is what first came to mind for me when I saw this
feature) with the new "Building Blocks" features. This is going to be very
helpful for creating documents. If you've ever worked with a template that
says: "Copy from this point to that point and paste here to create a new
chapter", I think you can appreciate the ability to simply add a chapter
"building block" (Ok, I'm not thrilled by the name, but I can play the role
of apologist for the capability).

My biggest complaint with the interface is just with the colors. Yes, they
are nice and easy on the eyes, but the title bar is so light colored, I find
myself clicking the window to make it active when it already is, because the
light color doesn't look like it is in focus.

Ben

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

If/when you find a feature working/not working as expected in the Office
2007 Beta release, please use the "send a smile" link to notify the Office
Beta team of your concern. Link is at the end of this message.
Include screenshots and comments to explain your concerns. Also, if you
wish, include your contact details if you don't mind being contacted by
Microsoft for follow-up. All "Smileys" are read and tracked by the beta
team to improve Office 2007 for usability and stability.

You can also send positive smileys as well as concerns.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...E2-BC0F-4403-B09F-7A677D55F274&displaylang=en


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, Ben Sweetser asked:

| I have to agree with Matt here. There are things I like and don't
| like about the ribbon (It is a little weird when you get extra tabs
| because you are in a table or working with a graphic), but it does
| expose features that have been there that I didn't find before. I
| always use keyboard commands to do things like open, new, save, and
| print, but I can see the round button being confusing. Why does the
| save button end up outside the circle when open is in the menu? The
| recent document addition of the pin is nice... I can't count on all
| my fingers and toes the number of times I wished I could have forced
| an item to remain in the recent list because I had to open several
| other files and it got knocked off.
|
| In all the years I've been using Office, my biggest complaints were
| the "personalized menus" (which I personally thought were *much*
| worse of a design decision than the ribbon because nothing was ever
| in the same place twice) and multiple items on the clipboard. Even
| though the ribbon is context sensitive, at least it is predictable.
| Personalized menus are always the first thing I turn off in Windows
| and Office. I've never liked multiple items on the clipboard because
| it always seems to take longer to figure out which of the 12 items is
| the item I wanted to paste than it does to just re-copy something.
| This also gets turned off on my systems right away. I've heard
| rumors that Microsoft is going to add the ability to go back to tool
| bars. I guess we will have to wait and see.
|
| I'm really happy that Microsoft has taken a page from Macromedia's
| "Libraries" and "Snippets" (ok, the idea of reusable parts wasn't
| really new with Macromedia, but that is what first came to mind for
| me when I saw this feature) with the new "Building Blocks" features.
| This is going to be very helpful for creating documents. If you've
| ever worked with a template that says: "Copy from this point to that
| point and paste here to create a new chapter", I think you can
| appreciate the ability to simply add a chapter "building block" (Ok,
| I'm not thrilled by the name, but I can play the role of apologist
| for the capability).
|
| My biggest complaint with the interface is just with the colors.
| Yes, they are nice and easy on the eyes, but the title bar is so
| light colored, I find myself clicking the window to make it active
| when it already is, because the light color doesn't look like it is
| in focus.
|
| Ben
|
| "matt" wrote:
|
||
|| I dont know,
||
|| i find the ribbon more useful and many things that i would have
|| never found, i now did. if you are having problems getting use to
|| the new ui give yourself about 20min to go through powerpoint,word
|| and excel and you will find it much more helpful.
|| change isnt always bad
|| "John Jay Smith" wrote:
||
||| If I spend 1 hour explaining everything, will MS listen? I can give
||| you such a detailed explanation why the stupid ribbon is stupid,
||| and how you could make a better UI. I can make you graphics with
||| arrows and balloons showing you all their stupid bad ideas... LOL I
||| don't think they will change the whole
||| office 2007 concept just because I say so. They made bad decisions
||| and they aint going back!
||| Its up to the service pack 1 to try to add the old UI back as an
||| option after they will see the complaints of all the people and the
||| sales drop, THEN they will have panicked and will start listening!
|||
||| So what are we left with? Me ranting, and you sucking up to MS,
||| following what trash they pull out
||| with no critical mind!
|||
|||
|||
|||
|||
||| |||| Since you're an expert on human interaction and know how "novices
|||| to experts" think, perhaps you can be specific about how the
|||| toolbar/menu GUI could be improved to fix the following problems:
||||
|||| 1. How to add more features to a universally acknowledged "bloated"
|||| interface.
|||| 2. How to address the number one requested new feature in Word: an
|||| existing feature! People were requesting features that were there,
|||| but just too hard to locate in the GUI.
||||
|||| Then, tell us what is specifically wrong with the new GUI. And
|||| don't say dockable toolbars. I know some love them, but I'm an
|||| expert user and I've found no use for them and I don't believe
|||| novice users have a use for them.
||||
|||| Feel free to read this blog for rationales on many of the new GUI
|||| elements:
||||
|||| http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/default.aspx
||||
|||| Of course, the designers of this GUI know that not everyone will
|||| like it. You obviously don't like it. I've disliked menus for
|||| awhile and the fact they've gotten rid of them immediately
|||| improves the GUI for me. I also like slick looking GUIs, so the
|||| look works for me. I won't really know if it works well until I
|||| have to produce a large, technical document, but first impressions
|||| are good.
||||
||||
||||
|||| On Fri, 26 May 2006 18:19:41 +0300, "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote:
||||
||||| You theory does not stand. I am not your average Joe.
|||||
||||| I have never complained about a change in a program! Not with
||||| win95, 98, XP.. not with any version of office, not even with any
||||| other product around!
||||| (with the exception of windowsMe and netscape6 & 8 that were ALL
||||| abominations!)
|||||
||||| I am not against change and love it......until now, what I am
||||| seeing what MS
||||| is doing with its products!
|||||
||||| Trust me, this is not some kind of fantasy I live in. The new
||||| GUIs have problems.. BIG ones.
||||| I have trained hundreds of people ranging from kids to 85 year
||||| olds, from novices to experts.
||||| I know how they think, and I know what they need!
|||||
||||| These new GUIs are NOT what they need! I can understand that the
||||| old toolbar
||||| things had problems.
||||| But that could be fixed easily and the problem should have been
||||| cought before they released that type of toolbar in the first
||||| place. I like new things. But new things must have improved
||||| functionality.
|||||
||||| The underlying true reason for the change of gui on vista era
||||| products have
||||| nothing to do with improvment of
||||| the "user experience". Its all about marketing.. because they
||||| want to show that these are not just another
||||| update of their products but they are actually something new.
||||| Ok they are new, but they are not for the better.... I want
||||| change, I want
||||| improvments.. I just DEMAND they be intelligent ones.. since what
||||| they do now affects millions of users! MS should hire me for my
||||| advice.. it seems that I know more about computer - human
||||| interaction than they do!
|||||
||||| I will still be using MS products even if the new GUIs stink, I
||||| will adapt..... but that should not stop me from expressing my
||||| opinion about them!
|||||
|||||
|||||
|||||
|||||
|||||
||||| |||||| Everyone has differing opions on this kind of issue. When
|||||| Windows 95 was released there were a large number of stalwart
|||||| 3.1/3.11 fans who refused to
|||||| accept the new interace. Almost 10 years later we can't even
|||||| conceive a Windows without the Start Button. Yes, the new
|||||| interface is going to take
|||||| some people a little time to get used to, but this is actually a
|||||| major new
|||||| version of this product for Microsoft.
||||||
|||||| People complain that nothing ever changes between versions, I
|||||| have heard that complaint a number of times about the 2000/2003
|||||| office upgrade. This
|||||| new
|||||| UI for Office matches the Vista UI and provides a new sleek look
|||||| to the system.
||||||
|||||| I use 4 screens on my work desktop and I support many users of 8
|||||| or more screens, and I rarely see anyone detatching their
|||||| toolbars. Most people keep
|||||| their Word config with the standard and formatting toolbars at
|||||| the top for
|||||| as
|||||| long as they use Word.
||||||
|||||| The UI is still very configuable, but if you really feel that
|||||| strongly about
|||||| loosing the 2000/2003-style interface then the simplest answer
|||||| is to not install 2007. Nobody's forcing you to. Why try and
|||||| rant at Microsoft for trying something different for a change?
|||||| That goes for the Office, Vista,
|||||| IE7
|||||| and WMP11 interfaces.