The mystery of disappearing windows

[Pehr]

I am having a very annoying behaviour on MS Word lately. As I am
working, all of a sudden the window I am working on closes. It is
still in the Window menu and check marked as if it is the currently
active window. To get back to it, I select another window and the
reselect (in the Window Menu) the window I want to work on . Then a
few minutes later it disappears again.

I am thinking that it occurs more often shortly after I have pasted in
some text from another window. However, I am not certain that that is
the only time the window disappears. It is quite unpredictable, but
always reproducable, e.g., if I get the window back and then ctl-z and
undo past the step that triggered the window to close/disapper, it will
always disappear again.

This is the most recent sequence for that occurrence:

I have some selected text I want to erase, select it, and hit backspace
to delete it. The window closes.

I paste in some text I want, but have an extra space at the beginning
of that text, the window disappears.

I paste in some text and select the style that I want for the pasted in
text. Boom, window gone!

This is highly annoying.

Thanks to whoever can help me fix this problem.

 

[JE McGimpsey]

I am thinking that it occurs more often shortly after I have pasted in
some text from another window. However, I am not certain that that is
the only time the window disappears. It is quite unpredictable, but
always reproducable, e.g., if I get the window back and then ctl-z and
undo past the step that triggered the window to close/disapper, it will
always disappear again.

I've never seen this, and I can't reproduce it, but I've got a couple of
questions:

- is the "another window" that you're pasting text from a Word window?
- how are you copying and pasting (e.g., menu, keyboard shortcut...)
- can you recover the window directly from the Window menu without
switching to another window?
- can you recover the window using CMD-F6?
- are you sure you're not typing a command (e.g., CMD-m) that minimizes
the window?
- when you undo, what does the menu say just before the window
disappears (e.g,. "Undo Typing", "Undo Paste")

Before bothering to answer them, I'd try testing Prefs and the Normal
template as outlined here:

http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/TroubleshootingIndex.htm

(use a non-Safari browser, or hit refresh a couple of times per page in
Safari).

 

[Rude_1]

I am having the exact same issue - I thought it was me going crazy but
over the last few days, it's getting progressively worse.

I've re-installed Office and thought that would help - but not go..
still happens. The only things I can think of are - perhaps there is
another application that is causing this to conflict? Are you using any
additional applications? - The only one I've added lately is
StickyBrain.

BTW, this issue happens in Excel as well as Word. It just started
happening a few weeks ago - originally thought it was a template issue,
but I've reset the templates as per the MSFT tech note and still it's
happening.

If anyone can shed any light on this - it would be greatly appreciated
and would definitely save my sanity!

Thanks!

Rudy

 

[matt neuburg]

I am having a very annoying behaviour on MS Word lately. As I am
working, all of a sudden the window I am working on closes. It is
still in the Window menu and check marked as if it is the currently
active window. To get back to it, I select another window and the
reselect (in the Window Menu) the window I want to work on . Then a
few minutes later it disappears again.

Are you using a virtual desktops program (or anything else that might be
manipulating windows behind your back)? m.

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Sticky Brain rings a bell! I know that it's causing some nasty problems in
Entourage (though not this one).

Uninstall Stick Brain and see what happens. And PLEASE post back with the
results!

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
(If using Safari, hit Refresh once or twice ­ or use another browser.)
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Rude_1]

I just updated to StickyBrain 4.02 ( latest version from Version
Tracker ) - so far so good. I havent' come across the issue but I'll
try again tomorrow when I'm using Word/Excel to it's fullest.

Let's hope it's this simple fix that seems to be fixed - fingers
crossed.

Cheers

Rudy

 

[Rude_1]

I just updated to StickyBrain 4.02 ( latest version from Version
Tracker ) - so far so good. I havent' come across the issue but I'll
try again tomorrow when I'm using Word/Excel to it's fullest.

Let's hope it's this simple fix that seems to be fixed - fingers
crossed.

Cheers

Rudy

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Rudy,

The folks on the Entourage mailing list who were having problems with Sticky
Brain said the 4.02 update helped them too, only it didn't last.
Ultimately, they had to uninstall Sticky Brain altogether. Anyway, I'll be
interested to see how it goes for you.

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
(If using Safari, hit Refresh once or twice ­ or use another browser.)
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Rude_1]

Ok.. After playing with it over and over this morning - here's what
I've found...

The 4.02 update did fix the issue, albeit only temporarily... it
appears that when you turn on the Stickybrain service, to invoke the
contextual menus and the keyboard commands to activate the note taker,
the issue reappears. Even after you turn it off, it still is an issue
with Word and Excel.

I completely removed the stickybrain app with the corresponding
database and the issue appears to have gone away. How do I know this?
When Stickybrain is installed and active, and you right click on a cell
in Excel or Word, there is a slight pause ( beach-ball happens ) - as
soon as removed the application, this pause goes away and so does the
issue. I'll do some more Excel/Word work today and keep the board
posted.

Additionally, I'll contact Stickybrain support and give them this
heads-up. I really like this application and have enjoyed using it over
the years.. If it is indeed Stickybrain that is doing this ... they
need to issue another patch.. get us back to how it use to work -
flawlessly..

Cheers

Rudy

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Great information, Rudy. Thanks. I know the folks on the Entourage mailing
list were going to contact Chronos as well. And I'll be sure MSFT knows
too.

Please keep us posted with any new developments.

Cheers,

Beth

 

[uniace]

Aha! I was having similar bizarre problems with Excel and was going
nuts trying to solve it!
See here:
http://groups.google.com/group/micr...read/thread/fbe1f27c87024876/4370b87727e2cb0c
And here: http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?p=259529

I had recently installed StickyBrain 4.0.2 AND SOHO Organizer 5.0.2; I
wanted to try them both out because an Apple Genius had recommended
StickyBrain, and SOHO Organizer looked like a mega-beefed-up version.

Fortunately, someone pointed me toward this thread. So, I uninstalled
StickyBrain (thank goodness its installer has an uninstall option), but
was prompted to confirm whether I also wanted to uninstall the OpenBase
Database Engine. Just to test what was behind all this, I said no. So
with StickyBrain uninstalled, but the database still in there, I fried
up Excel: the problem persisted.

So I then uninstalled SOHO Organizer, and got the same prompt for the
database. Apparently StickyBrain and all the SOHO programs all use the
same database (or engine). This time I said yes, rebooted, fired up
Excel and... PROBLEM IS GONE!! (apparently)

I'm going to make sure and point the Chronos tech support people to
these discussions of bizarre bugs. I'm sad; StickyBrain and SOHO
Organizer looked like they could be really useful to me, but they
essentially BROKE EXCEL, causing me to be unable to do my work. Once
they've fixed this bug, I'll so another trial run and quite possibly
become a customer.

 

[ScottKeith]

The problem may be some bad interaction with Stickybrain (you would
have to check with them), but there is no bad interaction with
OpenBase. We have tested it. I use Excel myself right along side
OpenBase.

Here are the things I would investigate:
#1. File corruption. It is possible that during the optimization
process that happens after installing a program it tried to fix one of
the files which excel depends on. I would recommend that you try
reinstalling excel. BTW, file corruption can also be the results of
memory problems.

#2. Memory problems. Sometimes launching more programs can reveal a
bad location in memory that you never noticed before. That could make
applications malfunction.

That is what I would check.

Best regards,

Scott Keith

 

[ScottKeith]

OpenBase SQL is not the cause. Here is the update:

Chronos, who bundles OpenBase SQL in their SOHO products, has found and
fixed the problem. It was an API call that Stickybrain made to the
NSWorkspace to manage contextual menus. Apparently some bug in the
Cocoa API triggers an issue with Carbon apps such as Excel. They have
worked around the problem and have posted an update to their software.

My hats off to Chronos for fixing the software the day it was reported
online.

 

[chronosjerry]

FROM CHRONOS, DEVELOPER OF STICKYBRAIN

We believe we have solved this problem. It turns out that our
contextual menu plugin that comes with StickyBrain, SOHO Notes, & SOHO
Organizer was the culprit. Our contextual menu plugin was calling a
function that invoked a call to NSWorkspace which is a Cocoa method.
When you right-click or control-click in an application like Excel, it
loads and makes calls to all the contextual menu plugins on the system
including our plugin. For some reason, calling this Cocoa method from
Carbon applications like Excel, Word, etc. sometimes causes the above
described problem. We use Excel daily at Chronos and never experienced
the problem prior to investigating these reports so we thank you for
bringing it to our attention.

The problem has now been fixed (it was a one line fix) and the fix is
available in the StickyBrain 4.0.3, SOHO Notes 5.0.3, and SOHO
Organizer 5.0.3 downloads that we quicky posted to our web site tonight
(www.chronosnet.com). Again, we thank you for bring this to our
attention and we apologize for any inconvenience it caused.

One final note we want to be clear on: the OpenBase database engine
that our products use was NOT in any way involved in this problem. It
may have appeared to be a contributing factor when one user uninstalled
StickyBrain but not OpenBase because the problem continued. It turns
out that once an application like Excel loads a contextual menu plugin,
the contextual menu plugin never gets unloaded until the application
quits or you restart your computer. This means the problem would have
persisted after uninstalling StickyBrain if Excel had not been quit. We
hope this helps explain everything. Thanks,

The Chronos Team

 

[uniace]

Whoah! It appears Chronos has just released an update to solve this
problem. StickyBrain 4.0.3 and SOHO Notes/Organizer 5.0.3.
I'm also told by Scott Keith that the problem was due to an API call
made by StickBrain (and presumably SOHO Notes) and not the database.

 

[digitaldog]

I was having the same issues. Thanks all for reminding me about
StickyBrain. I suspect that after the update, the issues will go away.
I thought I was losing my mind.

 

[Pehr]

Thank you all very much for this enlightening discussion and to Chronos
for their prompt fix. Shortly before the problem started I had indeed
downloaded and installed SOHO Organizer. In response to some of the
discussion in this thread, I deinstalled - or at least attempted to do
so - SOHO Organizer. I could not find the uninstall option reported
herein, so I attempted a deinstall by deleting a bunch of files with
the word SOHO in the filename. That did not do the trick.

Reading this morning that Chronos had put out an update that purports
to fix the problem, I downloaded and installed the new version. So far
so good on a quick test. Cross (or should that be Chronos) your
fingers that this is the fix to the problem.

Just to get up on my soap box: that this problem even could occurr is
very troubling. Programs should know to operate within their confines
and only to expand out of their boundary when explicitly invited to do
so. I downloaded SOHO Organizer strictly for the purpose of doing some
shared calendaring. What in the world this has to do with anything
that can touch on my use of MS Office programs (or any other program
for that matter) is beyond my understanding or approval. There are a
category of programs and software vendors that are so proud of
themselves that they (program or vendor) feel like they have license to
take over and run in the background. I have no interest in Chronos
running anything on my machine that I don't know about. Hidden daemons
and their ilk are what has driven me away from Windows machines (where
you have no sense of control) to the Macs. I feel violated by Chronos
for having put this kind of functionality in the background of my
machine.

 

[Pehr]

I'd be very interested in what you use for addresses and calendars. The
Mac things or Entourage?

It could even be MS and Chronos tripping over each other in iCal ;-)

I'd bet that Mac OS X has more daemons running than NT does. It is the
unix way of things. It i s not harmful unless the daemon is on some way
broken. Hop into terminal and say ps -A. If you do have an advanced
case of daemonphobia, you will be back into Windows like a flash ;-)

ps -A ... Holy Toledo Batman ... the interesting thing is the number of
processes I discovered for programs that I downloaded on an
experimental basis (e.g., digitunnel for VPN) and thought that I had
pretty much nuked from my machine. some housecleaning is in order.

I don't run Entourage. It gets under my skin for one of my other pet
peeves - collecting everything in one file (shameful). That kind of
freaks me out and goes against my affection for doing incremental
backups.

I use the mac software for address book and mail. and Sunbird for
calendaring. Which is not that great ... and which led to wanting to
experiment with SOHO organizer.

You may be right on the number of daemons, but there is still a sense
of more things happening in the background on a Windows machine ... or
am I wrong.

 

[Elliott Roper]

ps -A ... Holy Toledo Batman ... the interesting thing is the number of
processes I discovered for programs that I downloaded on an
experimental basis (e.g., digitunnel for VPN) and thought that I had
pretty much nuked from my machine. some housecleaning is in order.

I don't run Entourage. It gets under my skin for one of my other pet
peeves - collecting everything in one file (shameful). That kind of
freaks me out and goes against my affection for doing incremental
backups.

Best we never meet up in a bar. We'd be the most boring old farts,
agreeing with one another till someone threw a bucket of water over us.

I use the mac software for address book and mail. and Sunbird for
calendaring. Which is not that great ... and which led to wanting to
experiment with SOHO organizer.

Now *that's* interesting. I wonder who's trampling on what.

You may be right on the number of daemons, but there is still a sense
of more things happening in the background on a Windows machine ... or
am I wrong.

Well, it's a very useful idea. It goes along with your preference for
not putting everything in one file^h^h^h^h basket.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.