TOC, automatically update numbering & links?

[m.0110]

Hi,

I've been using Word for a long time, and have never needed the
advanced features. I recently started working on a long document,
where I have a changing Table of Contents. I decided to see if Word
could make the updating the TOC easier.
I spent a lot of fruitless time trying to get the insert->field->TC
to actually do something, rather than just return to the cursor with
no error message, no anything. I was trying to do this because the
insert->indexes&tables->tables of contents would print the error text
"Error! No table of contents entries found" in the document where my
cursor was. I finally found a different way of making a TOC in the
help pages, by converting the text to type "heading." This worked,
but destroyed the formatting (which I fixed). Now the auto-numbering
of the numbered items no-longer works (even if I don't "fix" the
formatting). If I have 1,2,3,4 in the TOC and want to insert a new 2,
the existing 2,3,4 are not renumbered. This makes the whole exercise
useless. I was hoping that Word would save me the trouble of
constantly changing all the numbers in an evolving TOC. The TOC did
put in the right page numbers, and the update seems to work. I still
can't get insert->field->TC to do anything at all. (I am putting
"text" after the TOC in the window, and I tried adding switches...
The Show/Hide Paragraph mark doesn't indicate anything is there,
either.)
I also need the TOC to point to more than the page number - I want
the TOC number repeated where the actual document text is:
TOC
1. some stuff
2. more stuff
...
MAIN DOCUMENT
1. Some text about some stuff.
2. Some text about more stuff.
...

So the numbers need to be linked. So when I insert a new #2 in the
TOC, I automatically get:
TOC
1. some stuff (*press return here, or whatever
works)
2.
3. more stuff
...

1. Some text about some stuff.
2. (*this is automatically added)
3. Some text about more stuff. (*automatically renumbered)
...

So a new #2 is automatically added in the main document, and
everything below it is renumbered. (I will want to take out the copied
numbering in the main document when I'm all done, but I need it while
working on it to keep the different things organized.)

I was hoping Word would automate this. It appears the TOC was
designed to be added after you are all done - which doesn't help me at
all. I need the TOC to keep stuff organized while the document is in
development.

If Word won't do this, does someone know of software under $100
that will? I don't need other fancy word processing features.
If Word will do this, I would appreciate some pointers. (I didn't
fully research if it will do links, I saw something about that, but I
don't know if that's what it means, but if Word won't automatically
renumber the TOC when I insert a new entry, then I'm not bothering
with it at all, as I'd be doing it manually anyway - renumbering 25+
items so far - will be around 80.)

Thanks

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Okay, I think you misunderstand how a TOC is created. You don't edit the TOC
at all; you edit the headings that the TOC picks up, then update the TOC
with F9. See http://www.ShaunaKelly.com/word/toc/CreateATOC.html for the
basics.

The TC field is not a TOC; it is a Table of Contents entry. If you have text
selected when you insert it (you can use Alt+Shift+O) to open the dialog, it
will automatically be selected for inclusion in the field. But creating a
TOC from TC fields is usually not necessary. Microsoft Office Online has a
number of training courses in TOCs for various versions (you don't say what
version you have).

 

[Peter Jamieson]

In addition to Suzanne's comments, the TC fields are automatically marked as
hidden text when you create them - you have to view hidden text to see them
(e.g. click the pilcrow on the main toolbar, or the Home tab in the 2007
ribbon.

 

[m.0110]

My post describes me creating the TOC in exactly the same way it is
done in the link you gave. I understood/understand the TC is an entry
field.

Let me restate the problem a different way. I have a lengthy list
of topics, in an automatically numbered list. To turn that into a
table of contents, it appears I have to change the style to a heading.
This destroys the automatic numbers, and I have to retype them. I then
create the TOC. Lets say I then go and add a new heading. Lets say
there are 100 of them, numbered, and I want to insert one at number 2.
Now I have to manually renumber 2-100 to 3-101. Yes, I can update the
TOC after I change all 98 numbers. That doesn't help me.
In addition to the TOC entry pointing to a page number, I need the
full entry number and name repeated at that page number, as follows:
1. some stuff (*press return here)
2. (*after pressing return, this
entry is created - automatic numbering)
3. more stuff


1. Some text about some stuff.
2. (*this is automatically added when I
pressed return in the TOC, above, and the text
entered there is also automatically
copied here)
3. Some text about more stuff. (*automatically
renumbered)

This is so I can organize a very long document in progress.

Maybe I need something other than a TOC. Is there a way to do this
with links, or something else?

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

You can include any style you want just by assigning the style an outline
level. You can do this in Format Paragraph for the style or in the TOC
Options dialog. Alternatively, you can add numbering to a heading style. In
fact, if your numbering is applied as direct formatting, then you need to be
applying it to the paragraph style in any case.

If you are just trying to get a sense of the shape of your document, you
might find either Document Map or Outline View (or both) helpful, but, in
order to take advantage of either one, you do have to assign an outline
level to the paragraphs you want to see.

 

[Robert M. Franz (RMF)]

Hello m.

Let me restate the problem a different way. I have a lengthy list
of topics, in an automatically numbered list. To turn that into a
table of contents, it appears I have to change the style to a heading.

not necessarily: any unique heading will do, as Suzanne points out.

This destroys the automatic numbers, and I have to retype them.

No: there's no need to type any number, you "simply" have to define the
given (heading) style as numbered. That does indeed sound simpler than
it really is (or rather: Word lets you do this in a number of ways, but
only one or two ways really work in the long run).

What's your version of Word?

Greetinx
Robert

 

[m.0110]

Hi,

I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find works the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.

Thanks

Hello m.

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

[..]

Let me restate the problem a different way. I have a lengthy list
of topics, in an automatically numbered list. To turn that into a
table of contents, it appears I have to change the style to a heading.

not necessarily: any unique heading will do, as Suzanne points out.

This destroys the automatic numbers, and I have to retype them.

No: there's no need to type any number, you "simply" have to define the
given (heading) style as numbered. That does indeed sound simpler than
it really is (or rather: Word lets you do this in a number of ways, but
only one or two ways really work in the long run).

What's your version of Word?

Greetinx
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MSFT |
\ / | MVP | Scientific Reports
X Against HTML | for | with Word?
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word |http://www.masteringword.eu/

 

[Robert M. Franz (RMF)]

I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find works the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.

How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna Kelly)
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

HTH
Robert

 

[m.0110]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

[..]

I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find works the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.

How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna Kelly)http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

So MS Word is not going to do what I need... I will look for something
else.

 

[Stefan Blom]

As described earlier in this thread, you can have Word pick up any paragraph
style (numbered or unnumbered) in a table of contents.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

[..]

I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find works the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.

How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna
Kelly)http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

So MS Word is not going to do what I need... I will look for something
else.

 

[m.0110]

As described earlier in this thread, you can have Word pick up any paragraph
style (numbered or unnumbered) in a table of contents.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

(e-mail address removed) wrote:
[..]
I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find works the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.
How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna
Kelly)http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

So MS Word is not going to do what I need... I will look for something
else.

Again, I'm not interested in making something pretty when I'm done
with it, but with an ongoing, evolving table of contents, where I
don't have to renumber things either in the TOC at the top, or with
the number below where the relevant text is, when I add a new entry in
the TOC. Nobody has said MS Word will do this.
My original post very clearly spells this out, but I will repeat it
one last time.

TOC:
1. Some stuff 'a'
2. Some stuff 'c'
(Document text)
1. Stuff about 'a'
2. Sutff about 'c'

I want to add 'b' between 1 and 2, without renumbering everything (in
the TOC and in the numbers below.) With automatic renumbering (but
apparently not if it's in a TOC), I can simply press <enter> and the
end of the 1. line, and it will make a new 2., and renumber the
existing 2. to 3., but that doesn't automatically do the other part.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

If the TOC is based on your numbered headings (or other styles), then all
you have to do is press F9 in the TOC field to update it whenever you add
new numbered headings/paragraphs. It does not update automatically, but
neither do you have to "renumber" anything; you just update the field.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

As described earlier in this thread, you can have Word pick up any
paragraph
style (numbered or unnumbered) in a table of contents.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

On Dec 13 2008, 7:52 pm, "Robert M. Franz (RMF)"
(e-mail address removed) wrote:

[..]

I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find works the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.

How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna
Kelly)http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

So MS Word is not going to do what I need... I will look for something
else.

Again, I'm not interested in making something pretty when I'm done
with it, but with an ongoing, evolving table of contents, where I
don't have to renumber things either in the TOC at the top, or with
the number below where the relevant text is, when I add a new entry in
the TOC. Nobody has said MS Word will do this.
My original post very clearly spells this out, but I will repeat it
one last time.

TOC:
1. Some stuff 'a'
2. Some stuff 'c'
(Document text)
1. Stuff about 'a'
2. Sutff about 'c'

I want to add 'b' between 1 and 2, without renumbering everything (in
the TOC and in the numbers below.) With automatic renumbering (but
apparently not if it's in a TOC), I can simply press <enter> and the
end of the 1. line, and it will make a new 2., and renumber the
existing 2. to 3., but that doesn't automatically do the other part.

 

[m.0110]

(For people reading this, my last reply was bottom-posted (below), but
the current reply to that was top-posted, so I'm top-posting here.)

You seem to be saying the TOC can be updated to match a changed
document (and I can rely on the automatic renumbering in the main
document when I add something in the middle). I wanted to use the TOC
as an evolving outline, so that stuff is concisely together so I can
see it, and change it there.
You seem to be saying I could go through dozen of pages to where a
new entry goes, add it there, and then go back to the TOC and press
F9. I want to do the opposite. I want to add it in the TOC, and have
the entry created in the middle of the existing document. I may want
to add several things like that at once, and go back and do the actual
writing later. If I have to go through pages and pages to add each
entry, that is a DISTRACTION TO THINKING. I can type much, much
faster than I can write by hand.
From my original post: "I also need the TOC to point to more than
the page number - I want the TOC number repeated where the actual
document text is:"
I had read of "linking," and I hoped it would do that.
It is not going to be helpful to me to have a TOC that can only be
created/udpated when the document is DONE (or a change is ALREADY
made), that's why I said "Again, I'm not interested in making
something pretty when I'm done with it" at the beginning of my last
post."
Maybe the problem is I'm having a hard time getting across what I
need. If MS Word won't do it, I need something else for this
particular project (which I've been putting off...). That's what I
want to know. You can't use a wrench as a screw driver, or "you need
the right tool for the job."
I used to write software, and it would be fairly easy to write. I
could then take the finished result (the manuscript) and import it
into MS Word to get the fonts I want and make it pretty. I may very
well end up doing just that, if I can't find software that does BASIC
OUTLINING. I don't care about pretty when I'm working on it. I need
headings, tabs, and any readable font. When comparing the time is
would take to write the software, vs. the time manually updating a TOC
and then the main document, I think the benefit of being able to work
with free flowing ideas in a concise TOC would outweigh the fact that
writing that software would take longer than doing manually updating
(which actually would only be true IF if already knew the whole format
in advance, which I don't, and which I need the free flow of ideas to
develop).
I thought my original question was simple. This reply is a bit
lengthy, but apparently I haven't said what I need effectively. I'm
bothering with this in case there IS a way to get MS Word to do this,
or something similar, because nobody here has said "NO," but rather
seem to misunderstand what I need to do, or I'm misunderstanding and
you are actually describing a way to do it.
I do appreciate your time replying.

If the TOC is based on your numbered headings (or other styles), then all
you have to do is press F9 in the TOC field to update it whenever you add
new numbered headings/paragraphs. It does not update automatically, but
neither do you have to "renumber" anything; you just update the field.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

As described earlier in this thread, you can have Word pick up any
paragraph
style (numbered or unnumbered) in a table of contents.
--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

On Dec 13 2008, 7:52 pm, "Robert M. Franz (RMF)"
(e-mail address removed) wrote:
[..]
I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find works the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.
How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna
Kelly)http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html
So MS Word is not going to do what I need... I will look for something
else.

Again, I'm not interested in making something pretty when I'm done
with it, but with an ongoing, evolving table of contents, where I
don't have to renumber things either in the TOC at the top, or with
the number below where the relevant text is, when I add a new entry in
the TOC. Nobody has said MS Word will do this.
My original post very clearly spells this out, but I will repeat it
one last time.

TOC:
1. Some stuff 'a'
2. Some stuff 'c'
(Document text)
1. Stuff about 'a'
2. Sutff about 'c'

I want to add 'b' between 1 and 2, without renumbering everything (in
the TOC and in the numbers below.) With automatic renumbering (but
apparently not if it's in a TOC), I can simply press <enter> and the
end of the 1. line, and it will make a new 2., and renumber the
existing 2. to 3., but that doesn't automatically do the other part.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

A TOC is not intended to be a working outline of a document; it is meant to
be a guide to where things are in the document (like the TOC in a book). By
default, page numbers in a TOC (and in some Word versions the entire TOC
entry) are linked to the content in the document. Because the TOC is a
single field, it cannot be changed in the way you describe. This is just a
backwards way of thinking about it. Perhaps what would work better for you
is to work in Outline view (see
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/UsingOLView.htm), or you could use the
Document Map to show you a working outline of the document, from which you
can easily jump to any part of that document to add a new heading/section.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

(For people reading this, my last reply was bottom-posted (below), but
the current reply to that was top-posted, so I'm top-posting here.)

You seem to be saying the TOC can be updated to match a changed
document (and I can rely on the automatic renumbering in the main
document when I add something in the middle). I wanted to use the TOC
as an evolving outline, so that stuff is concisely together so I can
see it, and change it there.
You seem to be saying I could go through dozen of pages to where a
new entry goes, add it there, and then go back to the TOC and press
F9. I want to do the opposite. I want to add it in the TOC, and have
the entry created in the middle of the existing document. I may want
to add several things like that at once, and go back and do the actual
writing later. If I have to go through pages and pages to add each
entry, that is a DISTRACTION TO THINKING. I can type much, much
faster than I can write by hand.
From my original post: "I also need the TOC to point to more than
the page number - I want the TOC number repeated where the actual
document text is:"
I had read of "linking," and I hoped it would do that.
It is not going to be helpful to me to have a TOC that can only be
created/udpated when the document is DONE (or a change is ALREADY
made), that's why I said "Again, I'm not interested in making
something pretty when I'm done with it" at the beginning of my last
post."
Maybe the problem is I'm having a hard time getting across what I
need. If MS Word won't do it, I need something else for this
particular project (which I've been putting off...). That's what I
want to know. You can't use a wrench as a screw driver, or "you need
the right tool for the job."
I used to write software, and it would be fairly easy to write. I
could then take the finished result (the manuscript) and import it
into MS Word to get the fonts I want and make it pretty. I may very
well end up doing just that, if I can't find software that does BASIC
OUTLINING. I don't care about pretty when I'm working on it. I need
headings, tabs, and any readable font. When comparing the time is
would take to write the software, vs. the time manually updating a TOC
and then the main document, I think the benefit of being able to work
with free flowing ideas in a concise TOC would outweigh the fact that
writing that software would take longer than doing manually updating
(which actually would only be true IF if already knew the whole format
in advance, which I don't, and which I need the free flow of ideas to
develop).
I thought my original question was simple. This reply is a bit
lengthy, but apparently I haven't said what I need effectively. I'm
bothering with this in case there IS a way to get MS Word to do this,
or something similar, because nobody here has said "NO," but rather
seem to misunderstand what I need to do, or I'm misunderstanding and
you are actually describing a way to do it.
I do appreciate your time replying.

If the TOC is based on your numbered headings (or other styles), then all
you have to do is press F9 in the TOC field to update it whenever you add
new numbered headings/paragraphs. It does not update automatically, but
neither do you have to "renumber" anything; you just update the field.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

As described earlier in this thread, you can have Word pick up any
paragraph
style (numbered or unnumbered) in a table of contents.

news:[email protected]...

On Dec 13 2008, 7:52 pm, "Robert M. Franz (RMF)"
(e-mail address removed) wrote:

[..]

I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find works
the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.

How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your
Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna
Kelly)http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

So MS Word is not going to do what I need... I will look for
something
else.

Again, I'm not interested in making something pretty when I'm done
with it, but with an ongoing, evolving table of contents, where I
don't have to renumber things either in the TOC at the top, or with
the number below where the relevant text is, when I add a new entry in
the TOC. Nobody has said MS Word will do this.
My original post very clearly spells this out, but I will repeat it
one last time.

TOC:
1. Some stuff 'a'
2. Some stuff 'c'
(Document text)
1. Stuff about 'a'
2. Sutff about 'c'

I want to add 'b' between 1 and 2, without renumbering everything (in
the TOC and in the numbers below.) With automatic renumbering (but
apparently not if it's in a TOC), I can simply press <enter> and the
end of the 1. line, and it will make a new 2., and renumber the
existing 2. to 3., but that doesn't automatically do the other part.

 

[m.0110]

Well, I was skeptical at this point as nothing workable had been
suggested. I read that Outline view link, and tried it out. I can
"shrink" the whole document to just the headings (like a TOC) by going
to that view. Automatic numbering when adding headings works in that
view (you have to manually change the number to 1 after 'promoting' a
heading to a subheading as it continues the previous numbering, AND
add text after the number, to get a new number below it when you press
<enter>, but that's minor -- because of this at first it appeared it
wouldn't work - with normal auto-numbering you can just keep pressing
<enter> and get a new line with the next number, w/o having to type
some text after the number). Then you can expand it back out (view
all, or change back to normal view), and your are on the page that has
the heading the cursor was on, with all the document text below it.
(So you can move around a large document quickly.)
So it appears this will work for me. (And when I'm all done I'll
make a TOC from the headings...)
Thanks.

A TOC is not intended to be a working outline of a document; it is meant to
be a guide to where things are in the document (like the TOC in a book). By
default, page numbers in a TOC (and in some Word versions the entire TOC
entry) are linked to the content in the document. Because the TOC is a
single field, it cannot be changed in the way you describe. This is just a
backwards way of thinking about it. Perhaps what would work better for you
is to work in Outline view (seehttp://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/UsingOLView.htm), or you could use the
Document Map to show you a working outline of the document, from which you
can easily jump to any part of that document to add a new heading/section.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

(For people reading this, my last reply was bottom-posted (below), but
the current reply to that was top-posted, so I'm top-posting here.)

You seem to be saying the TOC can be updated to match a changed
document (and I can rely on the automatic renumbering in the main
document when I add something in the middle). I wanted to use the TOC
as an evolving outline, so that stuff is concisely together so I can
see it, and change it there.
You seem to be saying I could go through dozen of pages to where a
new entry goes, add it there, and then go back to the TOC and press
F9. I want to do the opposite. I want to add it in the TOC, and have
the entry created in the middle of the existing document. I may want
to add several things like that at once, and go back and do the actual
writing later. If I have to go through pages and pages to add each
entry, that is a DISTRACTION TO THINKING. I can type much, much
faster than I can write by hand.
From my original post: "I also need the TOC to point to more than
the page number - I want the TOC number repeated where the actual
document text is:"
I had read of "linking," and I hoped it would do that.
It is not going to be helpful to me to have a TOC that can only be
created/udpated when the document is DONE (or a change is ALREADY
made), that's why I said "Again, I'm not interested in making
something pretty when I'm done with it" at the beginning of my last
post."
Maybe the problem is I'm having a hard time getting across what I
need. If MS Word won't do it, I need something else for this
particular project (which I've been putting off...). That's what I
want to know. You can't use a wrench as a screw driver, or "you need
the right tool for the job."
I used to write software, and it would be fairly easy to write. I
could then take the finished result (the manuscript) and import it
into MS Word to get the fonts I want and make it pretty. I may very
well end up doing just that, if I can't find software that does BASIC
OUTLINING. I don't care about pretty when I'm working on it. I need
headings, tabs, and any readable font. When comparing the time is
would take to write the software, vs. the time manually updating a TOC
and then the main document, I think the benefit of being able to work
with free flowing ideas in a concise TOC would outweigh the fact that
writing that software would take longer than doing manually updating
(which actually would only be true IF if already knew the whole format
in advance, which I don't, and which I need the free flow of ideas to
develop).
I thought my original question was simple. This reply is a bit
lengthy, but apparently I haven't said what I need effectively. I'm
bothering with this in case there IS a way to get MS Word to do this,
or something similar, because nobody here has said "NO," but rather
seem to misunderstand what I need to do, or I'm misunderstanding and
you are actually describing a way to do it.
I do appreciate your time replying.

If the TOC is based on your numbered headings (or other styles), then all
you have to do is press F9 in the TOC field to update it whenever you add
new numbered headings/paragraphs. It does not update automatically, but
neither do you have to "renumber" anything; you just update the field.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

As described earlier in this thread, you can have Word pick up any
paragraph
style (numbered or unnumbered) in a table of contents.
--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

On Dec 13 2008, 7:52 pm, "Robert M. Franz (RMF)"
(e-mail address removed) wrote:
[..]
I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find works
the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.
How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your
Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna
Kelly)http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html
So MS Word is not going to do what I need... I will look for
something
else.
Again, I'm not interested in making something pretty when I'm done
with it, but with an ongoing, evolving table of contents, where I
don't have to renumber things either in the TOC at the top, or with
the number below where the relevant text is, when I add a new entry in
the TOC. Nobody has said MS Word will do this.
My original post very clearly spells this out, but I will repeat it
one last time.
TOC:
1. Some stuff 'a'
2. Some stuff 'c'
(Document text)
1. Stuff about 'a'
2. Sutff about 'c'
I want to add 'b' between 1 and 2, without renumbering everything (in
the TOC and in the numbers below.) With automatic renumbering (but
apparently not if it's in a TOC), I can simply press <enter> and the
end of the 1. line, and it will make a new 2., and renumber the
existing 2. to 3., but that doesn't automatically do the other part.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

A few things you should know in addition to this:

1. If you use heading styles for an outline, then you should be aware that
Normal is set as the "Style for following paragraph" of all headings styles,
so what you get is not a heading.

2. Numbering will restart after a higher level if you have outline numbering
set up as described at
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

3. You don't have to use heading styles for your outlines; any style with an
outline level can be used in Outline view; if you do use heading styles,
you'll probably want to modify their formatting (and change the "Style for
following paragraph").

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Well, I was skeptical at this point as nothing workable had been
suggested. I read that Outline view link, and tried it out. I can
"shrink" the whole document to just the headings (like a TOC) by going
to that view. Automatic numbering when adding headings works in that
view (you have to manually change the number to 1 after 'promoting' a
heading to a subheading as it continues the previous numbering, AND
add text after the number, to get a new number below it when you press
<enter>, but that's minor -- because of this at first it appeared it
wouldn't work - with normal auto-numbering you can just keep pressing
<enter> and get a new line with the next number, w/o having to type
some text after the number). Then you can expand it back out (view
all, or change back to normal view), and your are on the page that has
the heading the cursor was on, with all the document text below it.
(So you can move around a large document quickly.)
So it appears this will work for me. (And when I'm all done I'll
make a TOC from the headings...)
Thanks.

A TOC is not intended to be a working outline of a document; it is meant
to
be a guide to where things are in the document (like the TOC in a book).
By
default, page numbers in a TOC (and in some Word versions the entire TOC
entry) are linked to the content in the document. Because the TOC is a
single field, it cannot be changed in the way you describe. This is just
a
backwards way of thinking about it. Perhaps what would work better for
you
is to work in Outline view
(seehttp://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/UsingOLView.htm), or you could
use the
Document Map to show you a working outline of the document, from which
you
can easily jump to any part of that document to add a new
heading/section.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

(For people reading this, my last reply was bottom-posted (below), but
the current reply to that was top-posted, so I'm top-posting here.)

You seem to be saying the TOC can be updated to match a changed
document (and I can rely on the automatic renumbering in the main
document when I add something in the middle). I wanted to use the TOC
as an evolving outline, so that stuff is concisely together so I can
see it, and change it there.
You seem to be saying I could go through dozen of pages to where a
new entry goes, add it there, and then go back to the TOC and press
F9. I want to do the opposite. I want to add it in the TOC, and have
the entry created in the middle of the existing document. I may want
to add several things like that at once, and go back and do the actual
writing later. If I have to go through pages and pages to add each
entry, that is a DISTRACTION TO THINKING. I can type much, much
faster than I can write by hand.
From my original post: "I also need the TOC to point to more than
the page number - I want the TOC number repeated where the actual
document text is:"
I had read of "linking," and I hoped it would do that.
It is not going to be helpful to me to have a TOC that can only be
created/udpated when the document is DONE (or a change is ALREADY
made), that's why I said "Again, I'm not interested in making
something pretty when I'm done with it" at the beginning of my last
post."
Maybe the problem is I'm having a hard time getting across what I
need. If MS Word won't do it, I need something else for this
particular project (which I've been putting off...). That's what I
want to know. You can't use a wrench as a screw driver, or "you need
the right tool for the job."
I used to write software, and it would be fairly easy to write. I
could then take the finished result (the manuscript) and import it
into MS Word to get the fonts I want and make it pretty. I may very
well end up doing just that, if I can't find software that does BASIC
OUTLINING. I don't care about pretty when I'm working on it. I need
headings, tabs, and any readable font. When comparing the time is
would take to write the software, vs. the time manually updating a TOC
and then the main document, I think the benefit of being able to work
with free flowing ideas in a concise TOC would outweigh the fact that
writing that software would take longer than doing manually updating
(which actually would only be true IF if already knew the whole format
in advance, which I don't, and which I need the free flow of ideas to
develop).
I thought my original question was simple. This reply is a bit
lengthy, but apparently I haven't said what I need effectively. I'm
bothering with this in case there IS a way to get MS Word to do this,
or something similar, because nobody here has said "NO," but rather
seem to misunderstand what I need to do, or I'm misunderstanding and
you are actually describing a way to do it.
I do appreciate your time replying.

If the TOC is based on your numbered headings (or other styles), then
all
you have to do is press F9 in the TOC field to update it whenever you
add
new numbered headings/paragraphs. It does not update automatically,
but
neither do you have to "renumber" anything; you just update the field.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

As described earlier in this thread, you can have Word pick up any
paragraph
style (numbered or unnumbered) in a table of contents.

news:[email protected]...

On Dec 13 2008, 7:52 pm, "Robert M. Franz (RMF)"
(e-mail address removed) wrote:

[..]

I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find
works
the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.

How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your
Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna
Kelly)http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

So MS Word is not going to do what I need... I will look for
something
else.

Again, I'm not interested in making something pretty when I'm done
with it, but with an ongoing, evolving table of contents, where I
don't have to renumber things either in the TOC at the top, or with
the number below where the relevant text is, when I add a new entry
in
the TOC. Nobody has said MS Word will do this.
My original post very clearly spells this out, but I will repeat
it
one last time.

TOC:
1. Some stuff 'a'
2. Some stuff 'c'
(Document text)
1. Stuff about 'a'
2. Sutff about 'c'

I want to add 'b' between 1 and 2, without renumbering everything
(in
the TOC and in the numbers below.) With automatic renumbering (but
apparently not if it's in a TOC), I can simply press <enter> and the
end of the 1. line, and it will make a new 2., and renumber the
existing 2. to 3., but that doesn't automatically do the other part.

 

[m.0110]

The link in 2. is very helpful. I don't understand how Normal as
the "Style for following paragraph" will not give a heading. I looked
at my test document, which is set that way (default), and the headings
are headings - both the number and the few words that describe the
heading - (as indicated by the Style drop-down, and the fact that the
font is different), and the text below the heading is normal. I don't
want the text below a heading to be a heading style. It's the way I
want it, and how I would expect it to be, so I don't get what you are
saying.
I did an Insert->Index&Tables->Table of Contents on my test
document, and it created the TOC okay, and did not include the
document text that is after the headings. So again, I don't see what
you are saying.
The numbering link you gave says "Since there are good reasons for
using Word's built-in Heading styles, this page concentrates on using
those Heading styles." - so I'll stick with that. I went to Format-

Style after reading 3 (below), to see what you mean by 'any style

with an outline level.' I can't immediately tell which of those have
an 'outline level.' Can those other styles (w/outline level) also be
used to make a TOC? Anyway, as it is I can modify heading styles to
look like I want, I can make a TOC easily from heading styles when I'm
done, those heading styles work in outline view to do what I want, and
the numbering suggestion link recommends using them. (I will be
changing settings for numbering as recommended there.)

A few things you should know in addition to this:

1. If you use heading styles for an outline, then you should be aware that
Normal is set as the "Style for following paragraph" of all headings styles,
so what you get is not a heading.

2. Numbering will restart after a higher level if you have outline numbering
set up as described athttp://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

3. You don't have to use heading styles for your outlines; any style with an
outline level can be used in Outline view; if you do use heading styles,
you'll probably want to modify their formatting (and change the "Style for
following paragraph").

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

Well, I was skeptical at this point as nothing workable had been
suggested. I read that Outline view link, and tried it out. I can
"shrink" the whole document to just the headings (like a TOC) by going
to that view. Automatic numbering when adding headings works in that
view (you have to manually change the number to 1 after 'promoting' a
heading to a subheading as it continues the previous numbering, AND
add text after the number, to get a new number below it when you press
<enter>, but that's minor -- because of this at first it appeared it
wouldn't work - with normal auto-numbering you can just keep pressing
<enter> and get a new line with the next number, w/o having to type
some text after the number). Then you can expand it back out (view
all, or change back to normal view), and your are on the page that has
the heading the cursor was on, with all the document text below it.
(So you can move around a large document quickly.)
So it appears this will work for me. (And when I'm all done I'll
make a TOC from the headings...)
Thanks.

A TOC is not intended to be a working outline of a document; it is meant
to
be a guide to where things are in the document (like the TOC in a book).
By
default, page numbers in a TOC (and in some Word versions the entire TOC
entry) are linked to the content in the document. Because the TOC is a
single field, it cannot be changed in the way you describe. This is just
a
backwards way of thinking about it. Perhaps what would work better for
you
is to work in Outline view
(seehttp://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/UsingOLView.htm), or you could
use the
Document Map to show you a working outline of the document, from which
you
can easily jump to any part of that document to add a new
heading/section.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

(For people reading this, my last reply was bottom-posted (below), but
the current reply to that was top-posted, so I'm top-posting here.)
You seem to be saying the TOC can be updated to match a changed
document (and I can rely on the automatic renumbering in the main
document when I add something in the middle). I wanted to use the TOC
as an evolving outline, so that stuff is concisely together so I can
see it, and change it there.
You seem to be saying I could go through dozen of pages to where a
new entry goes, add it there, and then go back to the TOC and press
F9. I want to do the opposite. I want to add it in the TOC, and have
the entry created in the middle of the existing document. I may want
to add several things like that at once, and go back and do the actual
writing later. If I have to go through pages and pages to add each
entry, that is a DISTRACTION TO THINKING. I can type much, much
faster than I can write by hand.
From my original post: "I also need the TOC to point to more than
the page number - I want the TOC number repeated where the actual
document text is:"
I had read of "linking," and I hoped it would do that.
It is not going to be helpful to me to have a TOC that can only be
created/udpated when the document is DONE (or a change is ALREADY
made), that's why I said "Again, I'm not interested in making
something pretty when I'm done with it" at the beginning of my last
post."
Maybe the problem is I'm having a hard time getting across what I
need. If MS Word won't do it, I need something else for this
particular project (which I've been putting off...). That's what I
want to know. You can't use a wrench as a screw driver, or "you need
the right tool for the job."
I used to write software, and it would be fairly easy to write. I
could then take the finished result (the manuscript) and import it
into MS Word to get the fonts I want and make it pretty. I may very
well end up doing just that, if I can't find software that does BASIC
OUTLINING. I don't care about pretty when I'm working on it. I need
headings, tabs, and any readable font. When comparing the time is
would take to write the software, vs. the time manually updating a TOC
and then the main document, I think the benefit of being able to work
with free flowing ideas in a concise TOC would outweigh the fact that
writing that software would take longer than doing manually updating
(which actually would only be true IF if already knew the whole format
in advance, which I don't, and which I need the free flow of ideas to
develop).
I thought my original question was simple. This reply is a bit
lengthy, but apparently I haven't said what I need effectively. I'm
bothering with this in case there IS a way to get MS Word to do this,
or something similar, because nobody here has said "NO," but rather
seem to misunderstand what I need to do, or I'm misunderstanding and
you are actually describing a way to do it.
I do appreciate your time replying.
If the TOC is based on your numbered headings (or other styles), then
all
you have to do is press F9 in the TOC field to update it whenever you
add
new numbered headings/paragraphs. It does not update automatically,
but
neither do you have to "renumber" anything; you just update the field.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

As described earlier in this thread, you can have Word pick up any
paragraph
style (numbered or unnumbered) in a table of contents.
--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

On Dec 13 2008, 7:52 pm, "Robert M. Franz (RMF)"
(e-mail address removed) wrote:
[..]
I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find
works
the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.
How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your
Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna
Kelly)http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html
So MS Word is not going to do what I need... I will look for
something
else.
Again, I'm not interested in making something pretty when I'm done
with it, but with an ongoing, evolving table of contents, where I
don't have to renumber things either in the TOC at the top, or with
the number below where the relevant text is, when I add a new entry
in
the TOC. Nobody has said MS Word will do this.
My original post very clearly spells this out, but I will repeat
it
one last time.
TOC:
1. Some stuff 'a'
2. Some stuff 'c'
(Document text)
1. Stuff about 'a'
2. Sutff about 'c'
I want to add 'b' between 1 and 2, without renumbering everything
(in
the TOC and in the numbers below.) With automatic renumbering (but
apparently not if it's in a TOC), I can simply press <enter> and the
end of the 1. line, and it will make a new 2., and renumber the
existing 2. to 3., but that doesn't automatically do the other part.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

If you look at Format | Paragraph for any given paragraph, you'll see the
outline level, which will be either Body Text or Level 1, Level 2, etc. Any
style can be chosen to include in the TOC (using the TOC Options dialog),
but any paragraph/style with an outline level other than Body Text will be
included automatically.

Users who are creating outlines are often using just the heading styles (in
order to get the outline numbering). Certainly the body text that goes below
the headings should not be a heading style (should be Normal or Body Text),
but you were talking about creating your outline to start with. I believe,
actually, that when you are in outline view with only headings displayed,
pressing Enter after a heading does give you a new heading (rather than a
body text paragraph).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

The link in 2. is very helpful. I don't understand how Normal as
the "Style for following paragraph" will not give a heading. I looked
at my test document, which is set that way (default), and the headings
are headings - both the number and the few words that describe the
heading - (as indicated by the Style drop-down, and the fact that the
font is different), and the text below the heading is normal. I don't
want the text below a heading to be a heading style. It's the way I
want it, and how I would expect it to be, so I don't get what you are
saying.
I did an Insert->Index&Tables->Table of Contents on my test
document, and it created the TOC okay, and did not include the
document text that is after the headings. So again, I don't see what
you are saying.
The numbering link you gave says "Since there are good reasons for
using Word's built-in Heading styles, this page concentrates on using
those Heading styles." - so I'll stick with that. I went to Format-

Style after reading 3 (below), to see what you mean by 'any style

with an outline level.' I can't immediately tell which of those have
an 'outline level.' Can those other styles (w/outline level) also be
used to make a TOC? Anyway, as it is I can modify heading styles to
look like I want, I can make a TOC easily from heading styles when I'm
done, those heading styles work in outline view to do what I want, and
the numbering suggestion link recommends using them. (I will be
changing settings for numbering as recommended there.)

A few things you should know in addition to this:

1. If you use heading styles for an outline, then you should be aware
that
Normal is set as the "Style for following paragraph" of all headings
styles,
so what you get is not a heading.

2. Numbering will restart after a higher level if you have outline
numbering
set up as described
athttp://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

3. You don't have to use heading styles for your outlines; any style with
an
outline level can be used in Outline view; if you do use heading styles,
you'll probably want to modify their formatting (and change the "Style
for
following paragraph").

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

Well, I was skeptical at this point as nothing workable had been
suggested. I read that Outline view link, and tried it out. I can
"shrink" the whole document to just the headings (like a TOC) by going
to that view. Automatic numbering when adding headings works in that
view (you have to manually change the number to 1 after 'promoting' a
heading to a subheading as it continues the previous numbering, AND
add text after the number, to get a new number below it when you press
<enter>, but that's minor -- because of this at first it appeared it
wouldn't work - with normal auto-numbering you can just keep pressing
<enter> and get a new line with the next number, w/o having to type
some text after the number). Then you can expand it back out (view
all, or change back to normal view), and your are on the page that has
the heading the cursor was on, with all the document text below it.
(So you can move around a large document quickly.)
So it appears this will work for me. (And when I'm all done I'll
make a TOC from the headings...)
Thanks.

A TOC is not intended to be a working outline of a document; it is
meant
to
be a guide to where things are in the document (like the TOC in a
book).
By
default, page numbers in a TOC (and in some Word versions the entire
TOC
entry) are linked to the content in the document. Because the TOC is a
single field, it cannot be changed in the way you describe. This is
just
a
backwards way of thinking about it. Perhaps what would work better for
you
is to work in Outline view
(seehttp://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/UsingOLView.htm), or you
could
use the
Document Map to show you a working outline of the document, from which
you
can easily jump to any part of that document to add a new
heading/section.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

(For people reading this, my last reply was bottom-posted (below),
but
the current reply to that was top-posted, so I'm top-posting here.)

You seem to be saying the TOC can be updated to match a changed
document (and I can rely on the automatic renumbering in the main
document when I add something in the middle). I wanted to use the
TOC
as an evolving outline, so that stuff is concisely together so I can
see it, and change it there.
You seem to be saying I could go through dozen of pages to where a
new entry goes, add it there, and then go back to the TOC and press
F9. I want to do the opposite. I want to add it in the TOC, and
have
the entry created in the middle of the existing document. I may want
to add several things like that at once, and go back and do the
actual
writing later. If I have to go through pages and pages to add each
entry, that is a DISTRACTION TO THINKING. I can type much, much
faster than I can write by hand.
From my original post: "I also need the TOC to point to more than
the page number - I want the TOC number repeated where the actual
document text is:"
I had read of "linking," and I hoped it would do that.
It is not going to be helpful to me to have a TOC that can only
be
created/udpated when the document is DONE (or a change is ALREADY
made), that's why I said "Again, I'm not interested in making
something pretty when I'm done with it" at the beginning of my last
post."
Maybe the problem is I'm having a hard time getting across what I
need. If MS Word won't do it, I need something else for this
particular project (which I've been putting off...). That's what I
want to know. You can't use a wrench as a screw driver, or "you
need
the right tool for the job."
I used to write software, and it would be fairly easy to write.
I
could then take the finished result (the manuscript) and import it
into MS Word to get the fonts I want and make it pretty. I may very
well end up doing just that, if I can't find software that does
BASIC
OUTLINING. I don't care about pretty when I'm working on it. I need
headings, tabs, and any readable font. When comparing the time is
would take to write the software, vs. the time manually updating a
TOC
and then the main document, I think the benefit of being able to
work
with free flowing ideas in a concise TOC would outweigh the fact
that
writing that software would take longer than doing manually updating
(which actually would only be true IF if already knew the whole
format
in advance, which I don't, and which I need the free flow of ideas
to
develop).
I thought my original question was simple. This reply is a bit
lengthy, but apparently I haven't said what I need effectively. I'm
bothering with this in case there IS a way to get MS Word to do
this,
or something similar, because nobody here has said "NO," but rather
seem to misunderstand what I need to do, or I'm misunderstanding and
you are actually describing a way to do it.
I do appreciate your time replying.

On Feb 15, 12:37 am, "Suzanne S. Barnhill" <[email protected]>
wrote:
If the TOC is based on your numbered headings (or other styles),
then
all
you have to do is press F9 in the TOC field to update it whenever
you
add
new numbered headings/paragraphs. It does not update automatically,
but
neither do you have to "renumber" anything; you just update the
field.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

As described earlier in this thread, you can have Word pick up
any
paragraph
style (numbered or unnumbered) in a table of contents.

news:[email protected]...

On Dec 13 2008, 7:52 pm, "Robert M. Franz (RMF)"
(e-mail address removed) wrote:

[..]

I hope you can give me a suggestion on the method you find
works
the
best in the long run.
I am using MS Word 2000.

How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your
Microsoft
Word document (by Shauna
Kelly)http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

So MS Word is not going to do what I need... I will look for
something
else.

Again, I'm not interested in making something pretty when I'm
done
with it, but with an ongoing, evolving table of contents, where I
don't have to renumber things either in the TOC at the top, or
with
the number below where the relevant text is, when I add a new
entry
in
the TOC. Nobody has said MS Word will do this.
My original post very clearly spells this out, but I will
repeat
it
one last time.

TOC:
1. Some stuff 'a'
2. Some stuff 'c'
(Document text)
1. Stuff about 'a'
2. Sutff about 'c'

I want to add 'b' between 1 and 2, without renumbering everything
(in
the TOC and in the numbers below.) With automatic renumbering
(but
apparently not if it's in a TOC), I can simply press <enter> and
the
end of the 1. line, and it will make a new 2., and renumber the
existing 2. to 3., but that doesn't automatically do the other
part.

 

[m.0110]

Okay. I understand the outline level / styles thing now.
Yes, I was getting a new heading in Outline view when pressing enter
with only headings displayed. I guess I was misunderstanding whatever
you meant by the "so what you get is not a heading" statement. So all
is okay.
Thanks