Track Changes bug

[greggsewell]

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: intel

I'm a copyeditor and practically live in Word each day. For quite a while, I've used v.X, and have just recently upgraded to 2008.

Most of my current projects were edited with v.X.

I finalized changes in a 300-plus page document (there were no comments), then gave the Word file to my layout artist.

When the proof came back, some, but not all, of the changes appeared in the document.

Example
----------------------
Original: John were going town.

Changes (deletions in square brackets; additions in angled brackets): John [were] <was> going <to> town.

After finalizing changes: John was going to town.

The final version looked right with Track Changes on and off, onscreen and in print.

My layout artist imported the Word file into Quark XPress. Here's how the layout read:

John were was going to town.

No colors, no strikethrough.

I've had to read every word of a 300+plus page document twice more than I usually do to make sure all of these errors (which shouldn't be there at all) are caught.

I'm frustrated.

My question (finally): Is there anything 2008 can do to help fix this problem?

For instance, would somehow processing the changes via 2008 instead of v.X do any good?

It's entirely possible that this is a Quark error. I haven't seen this happen but once, so I don't know if it's a fluke. But you can see, I hope, why I feel the need to preemptively strike before giving another large project to my layout artist -- who, btw, is switching to InDesign.

Thanks for reading all of this, and any help you can give.

 

[greggsewell]

Frustrating. Apparently I cannot use angled brackets in a post (that's html, right?), so my example is incorrect.

And for some reason, I'm not allowed to edit my post. (Wonder why?)

Here it is again, this time with underscores instead of angled brackets:

Example
----------------------
Original: John were going town.

Changes (deletions in square brackets; additions between underscores): John [were] _was_ going _to_ town.

After finalizing changes: John was going to town.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Don't worry, Greg -- the regulars here don't use a web interface, just a
newsreader, so it doesn't come through formatted no matter what. And the
capacity to edit has been removed by Microsoft because it caused chaos in
some threads.

But I know what you're pointing out.

It would seem that "Accept all changes" was not clicked on the file that
went to the designer. The additional words were retained in the Word file;
it isn't a Quark XPress error (and I'm not aware of a Word 2008 bug in this
regard, but I'll hold off with that assertion since I haven't moved to Word
2008; somebody else may comment on that).

Some of this may interest you: I work on strategic plans that go to and from
many collaborators -- somewhat like an editor's workflow. I *never* trust
Track Changes on the principal electronic document, because of the potential
for corruption or errors related to having more than one layer of changes,
changes within tables, automatic numbering, deleted paragraph marks, and
footnotes. I've described my practices on pages 67-71 of some notes on the
way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html).

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Instead I choose Tools menu => Track Changes => Compare documents and send
the compared document as well as a copy of the principal document. My own
principal document remains pristine. The procedure when I get a copy back is
described on page 68.

Among other things, the situation you describe never occurs. And even
resolving botched spacing takes more time than is needed to do the document
comparison.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================

Frustrating. Apparently I cannot use angled brackets in a post (that's html,
right?), so my example is incorrect.

And for some reason, I'm not allowed to edit my post. (Wonder why?)

Here it is again, this time with underscores instead of angled brackets:

Example
----------------------
Original: John were going town.

Changes (deletions in square brackets; additions between underscores): John
[were] _was_ going _to_ town.

After finalizing changes: John was going to town.

 

[CyberTaz]

Hello Gregg -

FWIW, I'm in full support of Clive on the matter... Although that's like
parishioner supporting a priest To extend on it a bit though, if the
changes appeared even after actually Accepting/Rejecting all changes it's
possible that you were dealing with a corrupt document - the the very spawn
of continuous change tracking to which Clive refers.

Track Changes is a great feature, but it must be administered sparingly.
Another approach is to not keep it active continuously throughout the
editing process. Instead, Accept/Reject at certain milestones, save to a
copy with no markup & continue editing in that copy. Hold on to the prior
copy for future reference if necessary. Clive's suggestion is more efficient
& practical for most workflows - especially in docs of more than 50 pages or
where extensive revision is necessary.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Greg:

One more note that will help:

If you use high-end features in 2008, make sure your file format is .docx
and NOT in "Compatibility Mode".

In compatibility mode, various features are down-rated so as not to exceed
the capabilities of the old .doc format. Which means various complex things
'don't work right'. Chasing down which doesn't work how is vexatious to the
serenity.

Instead, work in .docx, and save and close the file before doing anything
else with it. If you have to make an RTF or whatever for QuarkExpress,
re-open the file and THEN save.

Unless you have turned on "Always make backup" in your Word Save
Preferences, deleted material is not removed from the file until the
document is closed. That is probably what hit you this time. Personally, I
run with "Always make backup" switched on all the time.

In .docx, Word has the ability to detect pending deletions and ignore them
when down-grading the file. In .doc ... well, let's just say there is a
reason we moved to a new file format

Hope this helps

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: intel

I'm a copyeditor and practically live in Word each day. For quite a while,
I've used v.X, and have just recently upgraded to 2008.

Most of my current projects were edited with v.X.

I finalized changes in a 300-plus page document (there were no comments), then
gave the Word file to my layout artist.

When the proof came back, some, but not all, of the changes appeared in the
document.

Example
----------------------
Original: John were going town.

Changes (deletions in square brackets; additions in angled brackets): John
[were] <was> going <to> town.

After finalizing changes: John was going to town.

The final version looked right with Track Changes on and off, onscreen and in
print.

My layout artist imported the Word file into Quark XPress. Here's how the
layout read:

John were was going to town.

No colors, no strikethrough.

I've had to read every word of a 300+plus page document twice more than I
usually do to make sure all of these errors (which shouldn't be there at all)
are caught.

I'm frustrated.

My question (finally): Is there anything 2008 can do to help fix this problem?

For instance, would somehow processing the changes via 2008 instead of v.X do
any good?

It's entirely possible that this is a Quark error. I haven't seen this happen
but once, so I don't know if it's a fluke. But you can see, I hope, why I feel
the need to preemptively strike before giving another large project to my
layout artist -- who, btw, is switching to InDesign.

Thanks for reading all of this, and any help you can give.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[greggsewell]

Thanks, everyone, for your helpful, detailed responses.

I think the solution for me is to adopt healthier standard operating procedures (tip o' the hat to Clive).

I plan to read the "Bend" doc from "civer to civer" as my sainted grandmother (fictitious) would have said.

 

[CyberTaz]

A word of advice from one who learned the "hard way"

Although I heartily encourage you to consult Clive's opus I'd suggest that
you merely peruse it to familiarize yourself with the extent of its content,
then refer to it as necessary for guidance on specific topics. If you
attempt to *read* it you'll try to *memorize* it & not get on with anything
else I have it stapled to every accessible resource Word & OS X have to
offer.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Clive Huggan]

Yep, it's a dictionary, not a novel. ;-)

(And the many electronic cross-references in it make it even more so.)

Clive Huggan
============

 

[Jeff Wiseman]

Yep, it's a dictionary, not a novel. ;-)

(And the many electronic cross-references in it make it even more so.)

Clive Huggan
============

Well, It's the only Dictionary that I'VE ever read cover to cover!

(but then I'm weird that way--don't want to miss any of the good
parts

 

[greggsewell]

Clive, John, and all,

I've read about half of The Doc now, and find it fascinating (what does that say about me?) and incredibly enlightening (what does /that/ say about me?).

Dictionary or no, I'm already faster and more efficient at my job.

Kudos to you, Clive, for the time you spent doing this wonderful doc.

 

[John McGhie]

Oh dear. I am afraid it doesn't say anything about you that could be
repeated in mixed company

But really, that's how this forum started. Us old farts (and CyberTaz...)
were trying to put a bit back into the industry that has purchased our toys
(or enabled us to throw food-scraps at the kids until they got big enough to
thump us...) for so many years.

We all had to learn our craft "somehow". And the people who taught us did
us a favour that can never be repaid.

But it can be passed on.

Some of the information I put in here comes from 1960. Some comes from the
London Times since 1785. The stuff about paragraph spacing probably came
from William Caxton, but he was not working in centimetres ...

Cheers

Clive, John, and all,

I've read about half of The Doc now, and find it fascinating (what does that
say about me?) and incredibly enlightening (what does /that/ say about me?).

Dictionary or no, I'm already faster and more efficient at my job.

Kudos to you, Clive, for the time you spent doing this wonderful doc.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[Clive Huggan]

Well, It's the only Dictionary that I'VE ever read cover to cover!

(but then I'm weird that way--don't want to miss any of the good
parts

Golly gosh, Jeff! I think you must be one of a kind!!! *I* haven't read it
right through since it grew beyond about 50 pages.

As I think about this, I start to cringe. *You* are the one who has seen
the inconsistencies, the results of creeping incrementalism in the Styles
section, the ... but no, why am I confessing in public? A crate of best
Aussie bubbly will swing your way if only you keep quiet about it! ;-)

Cheers,

Clive
=====