Trouble with Relational Design- Please Help!

[Ian D.]

Hello all,
I find it rather difficult to explain my problem via simple text.
So, I have gone to the detail of building a little web site
detailing my situation. I hope this doesn't offend anybody.
Please feel free to make any comments here or via my email.
Here is the link,
http://members.rogers.com/bradcon/Index.htm
And Thank you for any effort to help.

 

[Jeff Boyce]

Ian

This is only my opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt...

If I posted a notice on the 'board at my local supermarket, saying:

"My mode of transportation doesn't work properly. I don't know how to
explain it, but you can see me on Main Street. Please help."

How likely would I be to get useful assistance? And what if I were speaking
about my horse, not my bicycle? Or a diesel tractor-trailer rig, not a
small foreign import car?

You've asked for an email response, but newsgroup protocol urges all Q & A
to stay in the 'group, that all readers might benefit.

Without a bit more explanation, I have no idea whether I know anything about
the specific topic in "relational design". It seems a little like you are
asking me to do all the work?! <g>

 

[John Nurick]

I find the terminology confusing. From your description it seems that an
Event is what most people would call a "Production", and an EventDetail
is a "Performance".

From your description you need a 1:m relationship between Cast and
Production. CastMembership must be related to Performance, however, to
allow for changes in personnel between performances for whatever reason.

If everyone in a Cast always stays at the same hotel, then the hotel
booking can be linked to the Performance. Otherwise, it must be related
to CastMembership (for the Performance in question).

 

[Ian D.]

Dear Jeff,
I'm terribly sorry if I offended you or the group by posting a link to a
simple FrontPage Website wich details my situation.
I thought that a picture of my Relational Design
might offer some assistance in understanding my situation, instead of
explaining in great detail here about all the tables and relationships.
My technical writing skills are quite week. As are my skills at building
Relational Databases. I'm learning as I go and reading as much as I can.

I'm not sure I know what you meant by your analogy of a
mode of transportation....but that's OK!

I didn't ASK specifically for an email response. I suggested that
anyone could "feel free to make any comments HERE,
OR via my email"
Just a simple choice that was offered. Sorry if I broke protocol!

I thought the text in the "REQUIREMENTS" on the site and the picture
of the Table Relations. would be enough, for a start.
But I obviously was wrong.

As for me asking you to do all the work, I must say that I do take
some offence to that statement. I have spent a lot of time trying to figure
out
how a CAST will be related to an Event/Venue(or Performance)
and at the same time be related to a hotel booking for all CAST members..
I have attempted numerous ways at connecting the tables and have
become bogged down in confusion. I've also made numerous attempts at the
Fees table, but now though I would wait for comments on this
issue before moving on.

I apologize for not being very adept at relational design.
But I WAS NOT "asking you to do all the work"
Forgive me if that's the impression you got.

I was asking if people might have a look at the design I have
already set up and make some comments or offer some advice.
Isn't that what these groups are for?
As copied from my site, the following was my request.
"I am having some doubts about the way the tblCastMembers
is linked to the tblEventDetails & tblHotelBookings.
Is this correct? Can it be better? Is it even close?"

How that constitutes me asking you to do all the work is frankly beyond me.
But everyone has their own opinions....So I will simply leave it at that.

I don't want to get into an online squabble over this.
I just wanted to explain myself.
And apologize if I broke any rules!

Sincerely
Brad

Ian

This is only my opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt...

If I posted a notice on the 'board at my local supermarket, saying:

 

[Jeff Boyce]

I was very careful to use "please", and a grin <g>, and to offer my ideas
with a grain of salt. My comments were not intended to be critical, nor to
offend.

My <g> comment about "doing all the work" was a reference to the fact that
you provided very little information about the topic area in your post,
requiring me or any other potential helper to go to the listed web site and
study your work to get some idea of the topic, beyond "relational design".

Best of luck on your project. I noticed that John N. offered some
suggestions.

Jeff Boyce
<Access MVP>

 

[Craig Hornish]

Hi Jeff and Ian,
I would like to respond to this post from Jeff - I have also read your
responce and his responce to that expaining his points. But I am on a
little bit of a rant because of this post.

So Jeff you can take this with a grain of salt also. But everyones
grains are adding up in my opinon and my wounds aren't healing.

First I believe Ians attempt to put this on a website was a very good
Idea. I am a very visual person and the relationship view is something that
would help me tremendously. With the link embeded in his post you can
easily go to the website and see that. In your example of the supermarket
he is standing next to the board while you are reading it. If he asked you
to download the text and graphic then it might be as you suggested.
If a person does not want to go to the website then skip his post and
not work with it. It is as easy as that.

This actually bring up something that I have noticed about your posts.
You never include what the person has said before. So in Ians case that
would not matter. But I find it annoying because I would rather look at the
reponces first and have the problem stated there instead of haveing to click
through all the previous posts. You make me do more work <g>

Another thing I think everyone needs to do a little better, and that is
reading and responding to what the person is saying and trying at least to
interpret what they are trying to get accross. In this case you explained
the accepted procedure of replying to the group, but you did not acknowledge
that he said that. If you missed that then you wern't reading, if you saw
that then you should have also included, because you could interpret why he
said you could respond to him by email, (because if you visited the website
and he had included a download) that an email responce is better if you
include an attached file in a responce, because (and I am not sure the
correct answer - that the group doesn't alow attachments and/or that most
people won't download an attached file).

I also thing that the stament "need more information is needed" is not
really an appropriate responsse:
First if you respond to that and have no suggestions then the post
might not get looked at by someone who knows the answer. I know that one
person who is an MVP has stated that he really only reviews things that have
not been responded to.
Second - There are times that you can answer the question. It may
be a suggestion that there are multiple ways to do it but "You whould do it
this way:" And:
Sometimes you have to interpret what is the probable situation. In one
post on 10/14 'Plotting advanced database Relationships" ther was a table
for products that had the same name, flavor, but different price and
barcode. With no other information about the product. So I had to
interpret that the probable situation here was that the product was a
differnent size, or from a different company. Instead of responding with
"Need more information" - If either of these were not the answer then I
would assume the person would respond back or at least have enough
information to go ahead on their own with the advice I had given.

That's it, my 2 cents worth, JMHO, sorry if it offends you,

Craig Hornish
(e-mail address removed) - so I can delete it when it becomes a spam magnet

"Think outside the box, because anything is possible."
"How long it will take or whether it requires divine intervention is another
issue"

 

[Jeff Boyce]

Craig

Not offended at all. I'm always looking for ways to do a better job of
whatever I take on.

And I agree, going to the work to put together a website depicting what he'd
already done was a big plus. My only concern was that I had no idea whether
I'd be able to help until after I visited his website -- I was looking for
even a little more information.

While I agree that there are often many ways of resolving an issue, not
everyone's learning style benefits from having multiple approaches. By
asking for more information when I'm not clear, I'm trying to zero in on
what is being sought. As I'm sure you've found, what's being asked for and
what's being sought are sometimes different!

Thanks for the observation on not posting a portion of the question in my
response. I sometimes use in-line comments, but usually figure that someone
following the thread down to my comment has read the thread. I'll think
twice on that assumption ...

I'm not sure I understand the point you are making about responding by
email, but I hesitate to ask for more information <G!>.

Just as I've run into lots of different learning styles, I've also seen a
wide range of "responding" styles. That's one of the benefits of the open
newsgroups -- if my response doesn't do it for you, you can take someone
else's! I try not to jump in with assumptions, but ask for further
clarification.

Again, not offended at all. Thanks for taking the time to point these
issues out.

Regards

Jeff Boyce
<Access MVP>