Use Current Normal Template with "My Templates"

[Norm]

It appears that when I use one of my "My Templates" that the doc is
using the styles at the time I created the template rather than the
current Normal Template styles.

If that is correct, how do I set all of "My Templates" (these are mostly
just stationery headings) so as to have them use my current Normal
Template styles etc.?

Thanks for any tips.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

You can't. You cannot attach a Template to a Template.

What you "can" do is copy the styles from one template to another using the
Organiser. Go to Format>Style and click the "Organiser" button.

That opens a two-pane dialog. You can open a different template or document
either side, and copy styles, toolbars, etc from one to the other.

Be careful: It's an instant over-write, and there's no 'undo'. Make sure
you have backups until you get used to it: as with all power tools, keeping
your mind on the job is highly recommended!

Cheers

It appears that when I use one of my "My Templates" that the doc is
using the styles at the time I created the template rather than the
current Normal Template styles.

If that is correct, how do I set all of "My Templates" (these are mostly
just stationery headings) so as to have them use my current Normal
Template styles etc.?

Thanks for any tips.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

Is there then a better, more efficient way of maintaining letterheads
with one's latest Normal Template changes available?

But then how many styles do I need in my letters, memos?

Thanks.

 

[John McGhie]

Yes. Make them Documents.

Having created the file, use Tools>Templates and Add-ins to attach it to a
master template (which cannot be "Normal" template).

As you attach the template, set ON the "Automatically update styles on open"
checkbox. Then save and close your model file.

To use one, Open it, then Save As a new file name. Each time you open the
file, it will import a new copy of the style table from the master template.
You cannot use the "Stationery pad" flag, because the style update happens
only when Word opens the model file.

You cannot set "Automatically update styles on open" for the Normal
template, Word will ignore it. This was a design change made to stop the
wails of "My whole document reformats every time I open it" from people who
never bothered to read the help

And you cannot use this technique for a document that contains List
Numbering with numbering restarts, because every time the styles update, the
numbering restarts will all be reset.

Cheers

Hi John:

Is there then a better, more efficient way of maintaining letterheads
with one's latest Normal Template changes available?

But then how many styles do I need in my letters, memos?

Thanks.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

 

[John McGhie]

Forgot to mention:

It's time you thought about moving away from storing all your valuables in
the Normal template.

Normal is a "scratch pad" ‹ a "shopping list. Like a shopping list, stuff
gets changed, scratched out, deleted and re-written constantly in Normal.

As soon as you get into "professional" Word use, you stick a notice on the
wall that says "The contents of Normal Template are UNKNOWN" and you say
that to yourself three times every night when you go to bed.

Keep it up until you no longer delude yourself with the pathetic assumption
that you "know what is in Normal" or how it is formatted. Because you DON'T
And it gets worse if the Normal in question belongs to a different
user.

During my career, I have seen various "interesting" attempts to control the
content of Normal Template (and made a few myself...{blush!}...).

Each morning in a large corporation, 50,000 users log on to the system. For
a percentage of them (these days, less than one per cent, but it's NOT
"0"...) Word will discover that it can't read their Normal Template, and
will silently replace it.

When this happens, the pimply youths who didn't read the WHOLE manual before
they accepted a position as a Microsoft Office Desktop Support Analyst will
get a call from their boss. Their boss will slyly draw their attention to a
Level 3 Escalation from the Help Desk saying that "The letter-heads are not
working correctly for user Millicent Marples in Finance and this is
mission-critical because Milly will be emailing the quarterly results to the
Executive Committee in two hours..."

The Boss, of course, knows exactly what has happened, because he learned
this stuff 30 years ago: but he's going to make the Pimply Faced Youth sweat
blood for 1 hour and 59 minutes before he tells the little snot. You have
to harden the little nerds up somehow

If you can leave one standing there in the frigid air of the computer room
at three a.m, with sweat running in rivers from their armpits; out of ideas,
out of options, and out of time, you learn a lot about their character.
Those who stay on the job and keep trying may become the Chief Information
Officer of a major corporation one day. Those that run away and go get a
job with a shopping website ‹ "won't"

Cheers

Hi John:

Is there then a better, more efficient way of maintaining letterheads
with one's latest Normal Template changes available?

But then how many styles do I need in my letters, memos?

Thanks.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

Yes. Make them Documents.

Having created the file, use Tools>Templates and Add-ins to attach it to a
master template (which cannot be "Normal" template).

Since it is the only one I have, other than the letterheads, I don't
have this option. Guess I need to learn more, make that something, about
templates.

Is there a "best" read on this in your opinion?

As you attach the template, set ON the "Automatically update styles on open"
checkbox. Then save and close your model file.

To use one, Open it, then Save As a new file name. Each time you open the
file, it will import a new copy of the style table from the master template.
You cannot use the "Stationery pad" flag, because the style update happens
only when Word opens the model file.

Lost me on your "stationery pad" comment.

<snip>

Thanks,

Norm

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

It's time you thought about moving away from storing all your valuables in
the Normal template.

OK, I'm thinking about it.

If I wanted to do more than think about it......
Now how do I best learn about it so I have some chance of doing it
"right" the first time?

Normal is a "scratch pad" ‹ a "shopping list. Like a shopping list, stuff
gets changed, scratched out, deleted and re-written constantly in Normal.

Hmmm..... doesn't sound like a good place or only place to keep one's
styles and toolbars.

Thanks,

Norm

 

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

waxing poetic aren't John ;-)

True though Unless MS starts doing like every other company but to use
Adobe as an example Hire people from Foreign lands That don't know how
to speak decent English , mush lee have the ability to read the manual ;-)

 

[John McGhie]

Oh Phillip:

You SO walked in to that one

In order to gain a University Degree in China, it is necessary to pass an
exam called CET at level 6, which requires better English than THAT!

Cheers

waxing poetic aren't John ;-)

True though Unless MS starts doing like every other company but to use
Adobe as an example Hire people from Foreign lands That don't know how
to speak decent English , mush lee have the ability to read the manual ;-)

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Since it is the only one I have, other than the letterheads, I don't
have this option. Guess I need to learn more, make that something, about
templates.

Get your first letter-head right, then save it as a Template.

Is there a "best" read on this in your opinion?

Since I am SURE you searched the Word Help for "Templates" before asking the
question, I can only assume that Linda has stolen your glasses. Again...

Lost me on your "stationery pad" comment.

Oh, OK, your glasses went all blurry when you looked in the Mac Help too,
right?

Stationery Pad is a feature of the Macintosh HFS+ file system. It is
extremely useful, which is why almost nobody knows about it these days...

Cheers

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

OK, I'm thinking about it.

If I wanted to do more than think about it......
Now how do I best learn about it so I have some chance of doing it
"right" the first time?

There is no way you will "get it right the first time" with Templates.

Chances are, Beethoven didn't write a symphony without a bit of practice,
either.

Start simple: your Letter heads are a perfect first requirement. Get the
first one right, and save it as a file of type "Template".

Then start thinking about "Re-Use" and "Inheritance".

Re-Use = "Do it once, do the whole job the first time, get it right, then
use it everywhere."

I use Calibri for most things. I set it in Normal style in Normal Template:
it's there forever, I don't have to think about it any more.

My Name and address is in the "Me" card in my address book. Done once, used
everywhere.

But my "Remove all hyperlinks" macro is in the "Web Site" template because
that's the only place it can be used.

Hmmm..... doesn't sound like a good place or only place to keep one's
styles and toolbars.

There's a lot of nonsense talked about the longevity of Normal. It used to
go "bang" almost every week. But I now have stuff in Normal that has been
there for at least ten years.

Although, I do keep it very carefully backed up, so if it does fail, I can
replace it within a few seconds.

Cheers

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

Is there a "best" read on this in your opinion?

Since I am SURE you searched the Word Help for "Templates" before asking the
question, I can only assume that Linda has stolen your glasses. Again...[/QUOTE]

A first, well maybe it is almost a first, to recommend a MS Help over a
MVP article or other for learning a Word technique. Hmmm...

I'll admit, I don't use Help very often. Not sure who has told me it
isn't very good.

Oh, OK, your glasses went all blurry when you looked in the Mac Help too,
right?

Stationery Pad is a feature of the Macintosh HFS+ file system. It is
extremely useful, which is why almost nobody knows about it these days...

But the part where you say "the style update happens only when word
opens the model file" was where I got lost.

And now I'll go read the Help file on Stationery pad and Templates.

Thanks.

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

If I wanted to do more than think about it......
Now how do I best learn about it so I have some chance of doing it
"right" the first time?

There is no way you will "get it right the first time" with Templates.

snip

Start simple: your Letter heads are a perfect first requirement. Get the
first one right, and save it as a file of type "Template".[/QUOTE]

If I create a new style that I want to have available for that template
would you just add it via Organizer or create a new template from
scratch?

Then start thinking about "Re-Use" and "Inheritance".

Re-Use = "Do it once, do the whole job the first time, get it right, then
use it everywhere."

I use Calibri for most things. I set it in Normal style in Normal Template:
it's there forever, I don't have to think about it any more.

Is your Normal Template where you recommend keeping all of your styles?

I think where I'm a bit unsure/confused is if I get to the point of
using multiple templates, how do I keep them updated for any style
modifications I may make thereafter.

And was your reference above to "Inheritance" relative to the
construction of styles?

Thanks,

Norm

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

A first, well maybe it is almost a first, to recommend a MS Help over a
MVP article or other for learning a Word technique. Hmmm...

Well, *I* might have told you that the Word 2008 help is appalling. Which
it is. But it won't get any better unless we attempt to use it, and
complain about it each time it falls short.

Microsoft is automatically compiling statistics on which Help topics get
used: it is now deleting the ones that don't get used. Of course this
methodology is absurd: they can't measure the hits on help topics that are
not there to be hit. But it will be a year or two before they will accept
this. Unless we keep complaining about what we CAN'T find in the Help.

One good thing about the help: if the topic exists, these days it is much
more likely to be "correct" than it was.

But the part where you say "the style update happens only when word
opens the model file" was where I got lost.

And now I'll go read the Help file on Stationery pad and Templates.

When you do, you will come across the answer to the question you just asked.
Stationery Pad sets the file read-only. Update Styles works only if Word
opens the model document in edit mode. So you can't use both settings
concurrently.

Cheers

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

If I create a new style that I want to have available for that template
would you just add it via Organizer or create a new template from
scratch?

Which would be easier?

Is your Normal Template where you recommend keeping all of your styles?

No. I don't keep ANY styles in Normal. The content of Normal is "random",
remember?

Most serious players don't keep "anything" in Normal.

Personally, I relax that rule a little: I keep all my macros and toolbars
in there, because that makes the macros easier to write and run. But I keep
careful backups for when Normal goes bang. Which it is inclined to do if
you are playing with toolbars

I think where I'm a bit unsure/confused is if I get to the point of
using multiple templates, how do I keep them updated for any style
modifications I may make thereafter.

Manually. Use Organiser.

Or: Make your templates into "Documents" all hanging off a single master
template using "Automatically update styles on open".

I need to get you "thinking" about this stuff. There comes a point when you
need to begin to rely on your own knowledge and learning to come up with
your own solutions, because your circumstances will become progressively
more individualised to your situation and working methods.

So we need you to try your own solution first, and post it here so we can
all benefit from your learnings and methods.

That's what this forum is really about: users SHARING with EACH OTHER. It's
the old story of how we learn everything: "See one, try one, teach it to
someone else."

You're now well into Power User territory in your learning about Word: time
you started answering as well as asking

So: "Use Organiser" or "Use a Master Template" ‹ Discuss the pros and cons
of each approach.

And was your reference above to "Inheritance" relative to the
construction of styles?

Again: "What objects and properties can be inherited from a template?
Discuss the pros and cons of inheriting each."

Sorry, did I forget to mention there would be a test today?

Cheers

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

 

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

Should have been:

True though Unless MS starts doing like every other company but to use
Adobe as an example Hire people from Foreign lands That don't know ho to
speak decent English , *much less* have the ability to read the manual ;-)

Sorry I've been seeing so much Chinese and Japanese and every other ese
out there and listening to so much central Asian (India). I forgot how
to spell myself.

I have no objection for anyone to hold job but the speak and understand
so other can speak and understand.

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

Well, *I* might have told you that the Word 2008 help is appalling. Which
it is. But it won't get any better unless we attempt to use it, and
complain about it each time it falls short.

And I WILL pass on my 2 cents to MS.

When you do, you will come across the answer to the question you just asked.

Asking "the boss" .... where are my computer glasses.

Thanks,

Norm

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

If I create a new style that I want to have available for that template
would you just add it via Organizer or create a new template from
scratch?

Which would be easier?[/QUOTE]

Well........ let's see..... I'll time each.

Guess I didn't have to ask that question ....... that question either.

No. I don't keep ANY styles in Normal. The content of Normal is "random",
remember?

Most serious players don't keep "anything" in Normal.

Do serious players keep all their created and modified styles in one
template?

Personally, I relax that rule a little: I keep all my macros and toolbars
in there, because that makes the macros easier to write and run. But I keep
careful backups for when Normal goes bang. Which it is inclined to do if
you are playing with toolbars

Your recent comment in a prior post in this thread gave me the
impression that you did keep "anything" which was more than macros and
toolbars in your Normal Template. Your comment:

There's a lot of nonsense talked about the longevity of Normal.  It used
to
go "bang" almost every week.  But I now have stuff in Normal that has
been
there for at least ten years.

Guess I misread.


But....
BTW, I made a template before creating a personal toolbar. When I open
that template, the toolbar is there. I thought one's toolbars where not
available to all Word docs but only ones based on the template to which
it is attached.

Or: Make your templates into "Documents" all hanging off a single master
template using "Automatically update styles on open".

Is this in essence the setting for the Normal Template?

And why would I have two Normal Templates:
One in ~/Library/App Support/MS/Office/User Templates/My Templates

And the other, which is where I think it should be, is in:
Same as above but up a level in /User Templates

Me thinks I should delete the former.

Thanks.

You're now well into Power User territory in your learning about Word: time
you started answering as well as asking

I hear the advise and admonishment! Deserved.

Sorry, did I forget to mention there would be a test today?

You did!

Just told Linda that I can't take her to the pub for drinks and dinner
because I'm prepping for John's test. Now guess how many are in
trouble.

Thanks.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Do serious players keep all their created and modified styles in one
template?

Maybe. Unusual. Normally they would carefully analyse the workflow in
their particular business and build a structure appropriate to what they do.

They may have a master letter-head template for the entire company, then use
documents hanging off that for each department. They may have a master
template for manuals, and one for reports.

Companies with a large population of consultants and road warriors might use
single unlinked templates for everything. Consultants might use no
templates at all.

Depends who you are and what works for you.

Your recent comment in a prior post in this thread gave me the
impression that you did keep "anything" which was more than macros and
toolbars in your Normal Template. Your comment:

I have a personalised "Formatting" toolbar named "JohnFormatting" that
contains customisations I first made for Word 6 in 1992. I have macros that
go back to 1989.

But no styles: those need to be done specifically for each document type.

BTW, I made a template before creating a personal toolbar. When I open
that template, the toolbar is there. I thought one's toolbars where not
available to all Word docs but only ones based on the template to which
it is attached.

Depends where you stored the toolbar: go back and re-read the bit on scope,
inheritance, and chaining. Anything stored in Normal is available
application-wide because Normal is "attached" to the Application. Anything
stored in an Attached Template is available only to documents attached to
that template, because the Attached Template is attached to specific
documents. Anything stored in a document is available only to that specific
document.

When you get into advanced customisation, you can use VBA to coerce things
into the context you need them in. Then you can override the "rules" to
your heart's content. I will try to teach you "good design practice" so you
don't drive yourself completely mad doing this.

Is this in essence the setting for the Normal Template?

No. You CAN'T enable "Automatically update styles..." from the Normal
template. That's an important restriction: remember it!

And why would I have two Normal Templates:
One in ~/Library/App Support/MS/Office/User Templates/My Templates

And the other, which is where I think it should be, is in:
Same as above but up a level in /User Templates

Figure out which one is in use, and delete the "other" one.

Get used to the idea that it doesn't matter WHERE a template is: Word can
use them in any location you like, but it's up to you to manage that.

Look in Word>Preferences>File Locations and check the path shown in "User
Templates". That's the location Word is USING, regardless of where YOU
think the templates are. It's up to you to set that location appropriately
to your purpose.

My advice is "Don't change it unless you have a reason to change it." And
make sure you have tested that reason to ensure that it is valid under all
circumstances and for all users; because it will make your life more
complicated if you move your templates from the default location.

Just told Linda that I can't take her to the pub for drinks and dinner
because I'm prepping for John's test. Now guess how many are in
trouble.

Only ONE of us, Norm. Linda knows damn well that only one of us didn't do
his homework

Cheers

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

Do serious players keep all their created and modified styles in one
template?

Maybe. Unusual. Normally they would carefully analyse the workflow in
their particular business and build a structure appropriate to what they do.[/QUOTE]

Are there any negatives for this non-power user using Normal Template to
keep all my modified and created styles?

snip

No. You CAN'T enable "Automatically update styles..." from the Normal
template. That's an important restriction: remember it!

Let me see if I follow. I create a Documents, let's use myletterhead as
the example, but I can't hang it off Normal. So to do it that way I need
to create a new template and then hang it off that?

Thanks.