Using Listnum fields to number documents

[AnnP]

We are a legal firm and have documents which have utilised the 'listnum'
field to number paragraphs (everyone finds this much easier than auto
numbering!).

There is a para style with 6 outline number levels, and the 'listnum' field
refers to the 'Listnum Field list name'.

My problem is that not everyone who opens a document sees the correct
numbering. Does anyone have any idea why this should be since the paragraph
style is in the document?

Any help with this means saving many hours of work undoing the auto numbering!

 

[Margaret Aldis]

Hi Ann

I suspect the problem is in having a paragraph style or styles linked to the
named list format (List Template) you are using for LISTNUM fields. I've
seen various odd behaviours when trying to mix use like this.

If you are using LISTNUM fields for the numbering, with a LISTNUM field
name, then you shouldn't need to have any numbered paragraph styles at all?

Not sure if I understand exactly what your set up is or in what way the
numbering is "incorrect" - is it displaying differently when the *same
document* is opened without editing on another machine? If so that would
suggest either you haven't managed to save the named List Template in the
document so different Registry settings are coming into effect, or maybe
that you are updating styles on open and overwriting your list formatting.

 

[AnnP]

Thanks Margaret for your very helpful reply. Can I ask:

Does the list numbering scheme (which I have called Autonosnew) reside in
the document, ie does it travel with the document and if a a File/Save as is
done will the list numbering scheme stay with it? (The reason I put it in a
style was to make sure it stayed in the document.)

I'm not sure I understand totally, but are you saying that I can create a
list numbering scheme without it being in a style and it can be used in a
document and all subsequent documents?

To explain more fully what I have done: I have created a style with 6
levels of numbering and the correct indents and given this the list name
Autonosnew. Then I created some macros which basically do,
Insert/Field/Listnum then accesses the Autonosnew scheme and puts in the
appropriate level of number. The users can either insert using a button on a
toolbar that I have created or they can use keyboard shortcuts.

Most people who open the documents (no editing involved at all) see the
correct numbering:

1. Heading

1.1 Heading

1.1.1 Text

(a) More text

(i) More text

But the occasional person sees:

1. Heading

a) Text ...

b) More text ...

For internal people it is easy to tell them to Update their styles, but I am
more concerned with clients who will be confused with the numbers, especially
since there are cross references in the document as well.

Any further help you can give me will be very much appreciated.

Ann

 

[Margaret Aldis]

Hi Ann

Yes, as you create numbering schemes (List Templates) they are stored in the
document - in fact the problem is often the reverse, because you can't
delete them and if you do a lot of "experimenting" your document is holding
all those trials and sometimes they come back to haunt you!

I'm not sure why you are using explicit LISTNUM fields if you are able to
set up styles that do the job - provided you set you sequence up from
Heading 1 that should provide stable numbering. (See Shauna Kelly's
instructions at
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html.)

However, if you do need LISTNUMs because the numbers are placed within
paragraphs or need to be used in paragraphs of different styles then I would
suggest you *don't* also link that named List Template to styles - that
combination is very hard to manage because Word seems inclined to lose or
change names (perhaps to avoid what it sees as a conflict). Named LISTNUM
fields alone, paragraph styles alone, or default LISTNUMs (picking up the
prior applied numbering) all work OK though.

From your description of the problem, I suspect that Word has lost the name
association with your List Template, but I don't know why. You might be able
to track it down to something easy like having Tools > Templates and Add-ins
Update styles set On (that setting should always be off by default, but in
your case you'd need to avoid it completely because updating styles from
template does in some circumstances remove List Template names.)

 

[AnnP]

Hi Margaret

Thanks once again for your reply.

You are right, I had been experimenting and I can see the evidence of my
previous 'efforts'!

I decided to use LISTNUMS because the people here are really against
automatic numbering (because they don't understand them). They refuse to use
them, even although it meant numbering documents manually. I found that
using the LISTNUMS was easier for the users, although I only need numbers at
the beginning of paragraphs.

I had realised that, if a user was having problems with the numbering, that
updating the styles fixed the problem. My concern, however, is that a client
getting the document would not know to do this, nor could we ask them to do
this.

Thanks to you, I experimented by deleting the Style and, low and behold, the
user who was having problems earlier, now sees the correct numbering. Do you
think that this will fix the problem long term?

Sorry to go on, but have no-one else to talk this through with.

Ann

 

[Margaret Aldis]

Hi Ann

Glad you've got a fix. I suspect if you get rid of the styles that link to
the named list template then Word will leave the name alone and you'll be
OK, but who can guarantee anything with Word numbering <g>.

If this were mine, at this point I would want to Reset all panes in Format >
Bullets and Numbering, and then remake the template in a clean starter
document, making just one visit to Format > Bullets and Numbering to set up
the named list template. You can't do anything about the List Templates
"lurking" in any existing documents, however, without going through one of
the "decorruption" tricks (cut and paste into a fresh document, or save out
to HTML and reopen).

 

[AnnP]

Hi Margaret

Thanks so much for all your help, it's very much appreciated.

I will do as you suggest and remake a 'clean' template. As for existing
documents, I will teach others how to delete the style and then hope for the
best!

Many thanks again,
Ann