L
lae528
Is MathType compatible with Word 2008? If so, how do I get the MathType toolbar in Word 2008?
B
Bob Mathews
MathType is currently not compatible with Mac Office 2008 and we are
working on a new version to fix this. However, there is more to the
story, please read our position and recommendation:
http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype_mac/office2008.htm
--
Bob Mathews
Director of Training
Design Science, Inc.
bobm at dessci.com
http://www.dessci.com/free.asp?free=news
FREE fully-functional 30-day evaluation of MathType
MathType, WebEQ, MathPlayer, MathFlow, Equation Editor, TeXaide
J
John McGhie
Hey Bob:
A little "political campaign" under way, huh
It's already Summer, where's MathType 6???
Or would you like to ‹ umm ‹ put a "date range" on that web page
"Summer" does not have a lot of meaning in many parts of the world For
example, where I work, "it's hot and it's wet, or it's hot and it's not".
We don't get "seasons"
Cheers
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
A little "political campaign" under way, huh
It's already Summer, where's MathType 6???
Or would you like to ‹ umm ‹ put a "date range" on that web page
"Summer" does not have a lot of meaning in many parts of the world
Forexample, where I work, "it's hot and it's wet, or it's hot and it's not".
We don't get "seasons"
Cheers
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
J
Jim Gordon MVP
Hi Bob,
I've been suggesting that those affected use Help > Send feedback. For Word
the URL is
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/suggestions.mspx?product=word
When Microsoft announced the end of VBA for Windows office the backlash was
loud and immediate.
I think more Windows users are aware that add-ins require VBA than Mac
users. We've gone out of our way to make everything seamless and "just work"
on the Mac, so Mac office customers don't even know they are using VBA for
MathType.
Now that it's gone, Mac customers are bewildered and don't know what we are
talking about. Now we have to explain it to them in a way that they can
understand, and that's no simple task.
I am sure that MacBU doesn't want a full-fledged grass-roots restore VBA
campaign. But I think MacBU seriously underestimated the impact of the lack
of VBA on Mac customers - especially Word and PowerPoint customers.
I don't know what else to do except to encourage those affected to send
feedback to Microsoft and let them know that they want to be able to use
MathType and that it should work cross platform with Windows.
-Jim
--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP
MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info
I've been suggesting that those affected use Help > Send feedback. For Word
the URL is
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/suggestions.mspx?product=word
When Microsoft announced the end of VBA for Windows office the backlash was
loud and immediate.
I think more Windows users are aware that add-ins require VBA than Mac
users. We've gone out of our way to make everything seamless and "just work"
on the Mac, so Mac office customers don't even know they are using VBA for
MathType.
Now that it's gone, Mac customers are bewildered and don't know what we are
talking about. Now we have to explain it to them in a way that they can
understand, and that's no simple task.
I am sure that MacBU doesn't want a full-fledged grass-roots restore VBA
campaign. But I think MacBU seriously underestimated the impact of the lack
of VBA on Mac customers - especially Word and PowerPoint customers.
I don't know what else to do except to encourage those affected to send
feedback to Microsoft and let them know that they want to be able to use
MathType and that it should work cross platform with Windows.
-Jim
--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP
MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info
P
Phillip Jones
Jim I am going to ask a *dumb* question. And feel free to say boy that
is a dumb question.
I not aware of ever using anything that used VBA. and I've had macros
turned of since Word95 and Excel 95 Days.
But please explain.
Okay on the PC version of MS products they've been using VBA practically
since Bill Gates started MS. And PC's have always at least in my
memory (almost 59) used Intel chips.
Yet because Mac went to Intel chips and this supposedly broke VBA for
Mac. IF your using VBA on a PC on Intel (or even AMD), Why can't the
code used on PC/Intel be used for Mac/Intel?
Okay, *dumb question number2* IF the MacBU knew of this breakage years
ago because it was just barely working. Why haven't figured out a way to
use Apple Script to work, as a replacement.
I now set my laugh meter very low to prevent my ear drums from burst
from you laughter. :-D
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!
mailto[email protected]
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>
<http://www.vpea.org>
is a dumb question.
I not aware of ever using anything that used VBA. and I've had macros
turned of since Word95 and Excel 95 Days.
But please explain.
Okay on the PC version of MS products they've been using VBA practically
since Bill Gates started MS. And PC's have always at least in my
memory (almost 59) used Intel chips.
Yet because Mac went to Intel chips and this supposedly broke VBA for
Mac. IF your using VBA on a PC on Intel (or even AMD), Why can't the
code used on PC/Intel be used for Mac/Intel?
Okay, *dumb question number2* IF the MacBU knew of this breakage years
ago because it was just barely working. Why haven't figured out a way to
use Apple Script to work, as a replacement.
I now set my laugh meter very low to prevent my ear drums from burst
from you laughter. :-D
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!
mailto
[email protected]<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>
<http://www.vpea.org>
B
Bob Mathews
Thanks for the input Jim. Using the Help > Send feedback link in Word
2008 is probably the most painless way for most customers to get
feedback to Microsoft. I'll pass this suggestion along to the authors
of our web page on the subject.
--
Bob Mathews
Director of Training
Design Science, Inc.
bobm at dessci.com
http://www.dessci.com/free.asp?free=news
FREE fully-functional 30-day evaluation of MathType
MathType, WebEQ, MathPlayer, MathFlow, Equation Editor, TeXaide
2008 is probably the most painless way for most customers to get
feedback to Microsoft. I'll pass this suggestion along to the authors
of our web page on the subject.
--
Bob Mathews
Director of Training
Design Science, Inc.
bobm at dessci.com
http://www.dessci.com/free.asp?free=news
FREE fully-functional 30-day evaluation of MathType
MathType, WebEQ, MathPlayer, MathFlow, Equation Editor, TeXaide
J
John McGhie
Hi Phillip:
Many of the "Built in commands" in previous versions of Word were actually
built-in VBA macros.
They are no longer available in Word 2008.
VBA is simply a programming language. However, it requires an Operating
System to provide some of the functions it needs, and a processor to execute
those functions.
On the Mac, the VBA compiler was written for the PowerPC. They managed to
get it updated to OS X. But updating it again to run on Intel was a bridge
too far. Mac BU ran out of time and people to get it done.
Yes, they realised the pain this would cause. They had to rewrite all of
their own test scripts, so they knew, believe me!
However, when the decision was made, VBA was scheduled to go away on the PC
as well. Mac BU obviously expected there to be a replacement on the PC,
which they would then be able to use.
The Fortune 500 large PC customers all piked up the phone to Bill Gates as
one, and the decision to remove VBA from the PC was "updated" But by
the time that happened, Mac BU was out of time and out of people and
committed to the current plan.
So now you know...
Personally, I am hoping we will get what was originally planned: VBA.Net on
the Mac. That is sufficiently similar to VBA that existing code will
automatically upgrade. And it is much faster and more powerful than VBA.
It is also as secure as anything else in .Net (very!).
However, the PC guys are dragging their feet with their own version of
VBA.Net (because it's expensive...). So it may not happen soon.
Cheers
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
Many of the "Built in commands" in previous versions of Word were actually
built-in VBA macros.
They are no longer available in Word 2008.
VBA is simply a programming language. However, it requires an Operating
System to provide some of the functions it needs, and a processor to execute
those functions.
On the Mac, the VBA compiler was written for the PowerPC. They managed to
get it updated to OS X. But updating it again to run on Intel was a bridge
too far. Mac BU ran out of time and people to get it done.
Yes, they realised the pain this would cause. They had to rewrite all of
their own test scripts, so they knew, believe me!
However, when the decision was made, VBA was scheduled to go away on the PC
as well. Mac BU obviously expected there to be a replacement on the PC,
which they would then be able to use.
The Fortune 500 large PC customers all piked up the phone to Bill Gates as
one, and the decision to remove VBA from the PC was "updated"
But bythe time that happened, Mac BU was out of time and out of people and
committed to the current plan.
So now you know...
Personally, I am hoping we will get what was originally planned: VBA.Net on
the Mac. That is sufficiently similar to VBA that existing code will
automatically upgrade. And it is much faster and more powerful than VBA.
It is also as secure as anything else in .Net (very!).
However, the PC guys are dragging their feet with their own version of
VBA.Net (because it's expensive...). So it may not happen soon.
Cheers
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
J
Jim Gordon MVP
Hi Phillip,
John has posted a good, general explanation of what happened. I'll get into
the heavy duty stuff just in case you're interested.
Modern programming practice would be for applications (Word, Excel,
PowerPoint) to exist in a layer. The applications would be the top layer.
They would interact with a common layer, which would in turn interact with
the computer's hardware. That way changes could be made in the applications
and they would be hardware independent.
Office is an old product and was not designed that way. The Mac VBA compiler
was created specifically for the PPC architecture. The way Windows interacts
with hardware is different from the way MacOS interacts with hardware, so
even though there's a Windows VBA compiler, it won't work on the Mac.
Coincidentally, this month's Microsoft Developer Network Magazine has an
article about writing compilers.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/08/02/CompilerWriting/
If you can wade through the article you'll notice it mentions the .NET
framework and CLR John talked about in his reply to your message. As it
turns out, the .NET CLR has been ported to the Mac and is on the Office 2008
install disc (look for Silverlight on the disc).
I wrote to the author of the article asking his opinion about using
Silverlight to make a new VBA compiler for Mac Office. I received no reply.
Microsoft Office (the larger sense including Mac and PC) is at a mutli-path
cross roads intersection. Microsoft could re-write the entire suite in
modern code and make it work on any brand of hardware and OS. That would be
hugely expensive and make MacBU irrelevant, but would build a firm
foundation so that office could grow and expand with new applications and
features as time moves on. The new code base would be multi-core processor
aware and multi-threaded. Then all office applications, including Access,
Visio, Project, etc would run on Macs and PCs. Unfortunately, there would be
the ugly PC UI unless they let MacBU design the UI. If they did that, it
would be wonderful.
Another option is keep the old code limping along and patched as needed.
This seems to be the path that Microsoft is taking, as it is lower in cost
except when something core to the suite breaks as it did with VBA in Office
2008. Then all of a sudden there's a huge expense that managers don't like
because it shatters their business model, which is based on the fantasy that
a mature product should get only minimal maintenance, a few new features,
and a refresh of the user interface every so often.
Yet another option is to pare features down to whatever can be done in a web
browser. This is what Google and others are doing with their browser
applications. You can do a lot with Java, Perl, PHP, CSS, XML and other "web
2.0" technologies, but combined they are still a long, long way from having
the capabilities of a complex application like Microsoft Office. To get
Office to be a Web 2.0 application would be like connecting your nervous
system with everyone else's, cutting off your arms, legs, sex organs, and
poking your eyes out and calling it a healthy "upgrade." I doubt you would
be happy with it, and I hope Microsoft doesn't move in this direction.
So what about right now? Microsoft has indeed figured out a way to use
AppleScript. It's not a replacement, but an awkward work-around and sorry
substitute. AppleScript has its own compiler, and thanks to a decision made
many years ago, can manipulate Mac Office via VBA. Paul Berkowitz has made a
transition guide on how to use AppleScript to run VBA code:
http://www.mactech.com/vba-transition-guide/
The AppleScript approach has some notable limitations. It's slower to
execute. VBA was never all that perky on the Mac, so an additional speed hit
is not welcomed. Important commands are not possible, such as Autpen and
Auto-Close. You can't make add-ins that run directly within Office - the
closest you can get is to make an AppleScript application. I think you can't
make VBA userforms - you have to use AppleScript to make equivalent. And
most importantly, AppleScripts are Mac only, so if you want to do anything
cross platform you have to double your work load. Some syntax tweaking will
be needed to run VBA commands in AppleScript.
If you want even more discussion about VBA and the Mac you'll find it here:
http://blogs.msdn.com/rick_schaut/archive/2006/08/09/693499.aspx
So here we are. Apple switched to Intel. With regard to VBA Microsoft says,
"we're dead in the water." They already were well into their plans to deploy
Office 2008 and suddenly one of the core pieces of the product died. Now
what? They decided that the vast majority of Mac office users don't use VBA
and went ahead with the product roll-out hoping that AppleScript support
will be enough and that maybe they won't have to worry about making a new
VBA compiler.
Microsoft is correct. Most users don't use VBA or the advanced features of
office that rely on VBA. For these users Office 2008 is a very nice,
worthwhile upgrade.
But for those of us who use VBA, add-ins, etc Office 2008 is a problem with
no single easy deployment solution.
-Jim
--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP
MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info
John has posted a good, general explanation of what happened. I'll get into
the heavy duty stuff just in case you're interested.
Modern programming practice would be for applications (Word, Excel,
PowerPoint) to exist in a layer. The applications would be the top layer.
They would interact with a common layer, which would in turn interact with
the computer's hardware. That way changes could be made in the applications
and they would be hardware independent.
Office is an old product and was not designed that way. The Mac VBA compiler
was created specifically for the PPC architecture. The way Windows interacts
with hardware is different from the way MacOS interacts with hardware, so
even though there's a Windows VBA compiler, it won't work on the Mac.
Coincidentally, this month's Microsoft Developer Network Magazine has an
article about writing compilers.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/08/02/CompilerWriting/
If you can wade through the article you'll notice it mentions the .NET
framework and CLR John talked about in his reply to your message. As it
turns out, the .NET CLR has been ported to the Mac and is on the Office 2008
install disc (look for Silverlight on the disc).
I wrote to the author of the article asking his opinion about using
Silverlight to make a new VBA compiler for Mac Office. I received no reply.
Microsoft Office (the larger sense including Mac and PC) is at a mutli-path
cross roads intersection. Microsoft could re-write the entire suite in
modern code and make it work on any brand of hardware and OS. That would be
hugely expensive and make MacBU irrelevant, but would build a firm
foundation so that office could grow and expand with new applications and
features as time moves on. The new code base would be multi-core processor
aware and multi-threaded. Then all office applications, including Access,
Visio, Project, etc would run on Macs and PCs. Unfortunately, there would be
the ugly PC UI unless they let MacBU design the UI. If they did that, it
would be wonderful.
Another option is keep the old code limping along and patched as needed.
This seems to be the path that Microsoft is taking, as it is lower in cost
except when something core to the suite breaks as it did with VBA in Office
2008. Then all of a sudden there's a huge expense that managers don't like
because it shatters their business model, which is based on the fantasy that
a mature product should get only minimal maintenance, a few new features,
and a refresh of the user interface every so often.
Yet another option is to pare features down to whatever can be done in a web
browser. This is what Google and others are doing with their browser
applications. You can do a lot with Java, Perl, PHP, CSS, XML and other "web
2.0" technologies, but combined they are still a long, long way from having
the capabilities of a complex application like Microsoft Office. To get
Office to be a Web 2.0 application would be like connecting your nervous
system with everyone else's, cutting off your arms, legs, sex organs, and
poking your eyes out and calling it a healthy "upgrade." I doubt you would
be happy with it, and I hope Microsoft doesn't move in this direction.
So what about right now? Microsoft has indeed figured out a way to use
AppleScript. It's not a replacement, but an awkward work-around and sorry
substitute. AppleScript has its own compiler, and thanks to a decision made
many years ago, can manipulate Mac Office via VBA. Paul Berkowitz has made a
transition guide on how to use AppleScript to run VBA code:
http://www.mactech.com/vba-transition-guide/
The AppleScript approach has some notable limitations. It's slower to
execute. VBA was never all that perky on the Mac, so an additional speed hit
is not welcomed. Important commands are not possible, such as Aut
pen andAuto-Close. You can't make add-ins that run directly within Office - the
closest you can get is to make an AppleScript application. I think you can't
make VBA userforms - you have to use AppleScript to make equivalent. And
most importantly, AppleScripts are Mac only, so if you want to do anything
cross platform you have to double your work load. Some syntax tweaking will
be needed to run VBA commands in AppleScript.
If you want even more discussion about VBA and the Mac you'll find it here:
http://blogs.msdn.com/rick_schaut/archive/2006/08/09/693499.aspx
So here we are. Apple switched to Intel. With regard to VBA Microsoft says,
"we're dead in the water." They already were well into their plans to deploy
Office 2008 and suddenly one of the core pieces of the product died. Now
what? They decided that the vast majority of Mac office users don't use VBA
and went ahead with the product roll-out hoping that AppleScript support
will be enough and that maybe they won't have to worry about making a new
VBA compiler.
Microsoft is correct. Most users don't use VBA or the advanced features of
office that rely on VBA. For these users Office 2008 is a very nice,
worthwhile upgrade.
But for those of us who use VBA, add-ins, etc Office 2008 is a problem with
no single easy deployment solution.
-Jim
--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP
MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info
J
jimm
I wrote a short Macro that converted text taken from an email written on a PC to text without the paragraph marker at the end of each line. That tool didn't survive the install and I can't find a way to recreate that tool in Word 2008.
I am beginning to think this is also a result of losing the VBA support. Am I correct?
Thanks.
Jimm
I am beginning to think this is also a result of losing the VBA support. Am I correct?
Thanks.
Jimm
J
John McGhie
Yes. That's right.
Macro = VBA = Not in Word 2008.
You need to re-code the thing in AppleScript.
Before you do, try Format>AutoFormat... And choose "Email" as the style.
The AutoFormat routine is a little smarter in Word 2008, it may do what you
need.
If not, display the email in Entourage (open it right up) and select the
text of interest. Right-click it and choose Auto Text Cleanup....
That's new in 2008 and it's quite effective
Cheers
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
Macro = VBA = Not in Word 2008.
You need to re-code the thing in AppleScript.
Before you do, try Format>AutoFormat... And choose "Email" as the style.
The AutoFormat routine is a little smarter in Word 2008, it may do what you
need.
If not, display the email in Entourage (open it right up) and select the
text of interest. Right-click it and choose Auto Text Cleanup....
That's new in 2008 and it's quite effective
Cheers
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]