Using something other than "Heading" styles for outlining

[patrick j]

Hello

I've just been setting up a template for creating To Do lists for myself.

I've created a series of styles with Outlining Level 1, Outlining Level 2
etc.

So, I wan to use the Outlining view for shifting things around, then
changing to Normal view the paragraphs will be in the respective style for
each outlining level.

However what actually happens when I shift things around in Outline View is
that they adopt the Heading 1, Heading 2 etc. styles, not the ones I've
created

Is there a way to change it so that I can use the outlining view
effectively with my own styles being adopted when I change the outline
level for an item?

Thank you.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hello Patrick,

Before I answer, could you let me know why you don't just want to change the
appearance of the heading styles and let them do their job with outlines?

I'm interpreting that when you use "styles" in your comment:

However what actually happens when I shift things around in Outline View is
that they adopt the Heading 1, Heading 2 etc. styles, not the ones I've
created

you might mean "appearance" -- but I might be wrong.

There are some real advantages of basing your headings on Word's hard-wired
heading styles -- albeit changing their appearance and other characteristics
-- including in the situation you mention. I can probably help you after you
respond, after I return from an imminent 3-hour meeting.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from North America and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
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[John McGhie]

Patrick:

Clive is of course correct. The short and simple answer is "Customise the
built-in heading styles to your requirements and use those."

Doing anything else is a lot of work and not completely reliable.

The Outlining mechanism applies the built-in named styles. Doing anything
else is a laborious after-the-fact workaround.

Cheers

Hello

I've just been setting up a template for creating To Do lists for myself.

I've created a series of styles with Outlining Level 1, Outlining Level 2
etc.

So, I wan to use the Outlining view for shifting things around, then
changing to Normal view the paragraphs will be in the respective style for
each outlining level.

However what actually happens when I shift things around in Outline View is
that they adopt the Heading 1, Heading 2 etc. styles, not the ones I've
created

Is there a way to change it so that I can use the outlining view
effectively with my own styles being adopted when I change the outline
level for an item?

Thank you.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[patrick j]

Hello Patrick,

Before I answer, could you let me know why you don't just want to change the
appearance of the heading styles and let them do their job with outlines?

Hello Clive,

That is a good question I could just do this, but it sort of seems odd
to me to use styles called "Heading 1, Heading 2 etc" for my lists of to do
items.

I'm interpreting that when you use "styles" in your comment:


you might mean "appearance" -- but I might be wrong.

Well I mean defined paragraph styles.

There are some real advantages of basing your headings on Word's hard-wired
heading styles -- albeit changing their appearance and other characteristics
-- including in the situation you mention. I can probably help you after you
respond, after I return from an imminent 3-hour meeting.

Well I could just use those wired in Heading styles and change the
appearance but part of me is wondering why I can't make my own set of
defined paragraph styles the ones that will be adopted when shifting para's
left or right in Outline view instead of changing to the respective Heading
style at that outline level.

Surely the reason for being able to create outline levels for user defined
styles is then so they can be used relative to the outline view?

Maybe I've missed something

Thank you!

 

[patrick j]

Patrick,

Is your main requirement to format individual tasks in a way that they will
show up in outline view, so they can be promoted and demoted?

If so, given the futility of giving other styles an outline level (because
Word will over-ride, as you've discovered), here's a suggestion: use, say,
Headings 6 to 9 for your To-Do items. By that I don't mean that you keep
their default appearance -- change that to what you want, which needn't be
bold etc -- but that you take advantage of the fact that you are not going
to be using these heading levels for the usual "heading" purposes. And that
you can utilize the way Word is hard-wired.

I think that is a very good idea and might be the way to go.

While you're altering the appearance of the lower-level headings, add to
their name a comma (not comma+space) followed by the number, to produce, for
example, "Heading 6,6". Then you can apply the style without using the
menus: Command-Shift-s => 6 => [Return key].

I'm going to try that.

Because Outline View fundamentally depends on Word's headings being used.
Bear in mind that, because Word is sold in many different languages, the
hard-wired headings, under the bonnet [being a Brit, you speak proper
English] are actually numbers. You could however make aliases (a process
that John McGhie may come by and describe, but one that I have never used)
but it's just not worth the trouble.

I think it is best to go with the flow rather than against it and so I will
use the hard-wired heading styles.

John McGhie echos your comments and I am grateful to him for his post as
well.

I must say that although the outlining view is simple it is very slick in
its functioning.

Word has an unbounded ability to perplex... ;-)

It does take a bit of getting used to

I was a user of the Nisus Writer world processor (on classic OS) for many
years and Word is a very different program indeed.

I am getting the hang of it however and rather enjoying it. The last
version of Word I used was 5.1a which was a very fine word processor.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Patrick:

Your only limitation is if you are going to use the "Outlining Function".
Which, of course, is the main reason one would want to use Outline View

The Outline Function references styles by ID number, not by name. This
simplifies the code when they have to change the National Language Style
Names for other languages (of which there are 90-odd).

So to the Outlining Function, the styles are "minus 2 through to minus 10".
The minus, I think, indicates that they're built-ins...

If all you want to do is view the outline using expand and collapse, you can
of course use styles of any name that you like. That mechanism works off
the Outline Level property assigned to the Paragraph Style (or to the
paragraph as direct formatting). It's only the Promote and Demote function
that is going to switch styles on you.

As an alternative, you could use Aliases. A style can have many names. If
you attempt to re-name the built-in styles to the names you want to use,
Word will warn you that you can't do that, then add the names you want to
use as Aliases. The style will have two names: the built-in name, and the
name you added.

You can list it or search for it or apply it using either name. The only
restriction is that you cannot remove the built-in name (because to do so
would break the style table).

Hope this helps

Patrick,

Is your main requirement to format individual tasks in a way that they will
show up in outline view, so they can be promoted and demoted?

If so, given the futility of giving other styles an outline level (because
Word will over-ride, as you've discovered), here's a suggestion: use, say,
Headings 6 to 9 for your To-Do items. By that I don't mean that you keep
their default appearance -- change that to what you want, which needn't be
bold etc -- but that you take advantage of the fact that you are not going
to be using these heading levels for the usual "heading" purposes. And that
you can utilize the way Word is hard-wired.

I think that is a very good idea and might be the way to go.

While you're altering the appearance of the lower-level headings, add to
their name a comma (not comma+space) followed by the number, to produce, for
example, "Heading 6,6". Then you can apply the style without using the
menus: Command-Shift-s => 6 => [Return key].

I'm going to try that.

Because Outline View fundamentally depends on Word's headings being used.
Bear in mind that, because Word is sold in many different languages, the
hard-wired headings, under the bonnet [being a Brit, you speak proper
English] are actually numbers. You could however make aliases (a process
that John McGhie may come by and describe, but one that I have never used)
but it's just not worth the trouble.

I think it is best to go with the flow rather than against it and so I will
use the hard-wired heading styles.

John McGhie echos your comments and I am grateful to him for his post as
well.

I must say that although the outlining view is simple it is very slick in
its functioning.

Word has an unbounded ability to perplex... ;-)

It does take a bit of getting used to

I was a user of the Nisus Writer world processor (on classic OS) for many
years and Word is a very different program indeed.

I am getting the hang of it however and rather enjoying it. The last
version of Word I used was 5.1a which was a very fine word processor.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Clive Huggan]

There you are, Patrick, I told you he might take the bait... ;-)

The worst thing is, for the present he is demonstrating his erudition from
the Balmy Far North of Australia, while we are *freezing* here in the Deep
South. And when we spoke on the phone this morning, he was *crowing* about
it!

CH
===

Hi Patrick:

Your only limitation is if you are going to use the "Outlining Function".
Which, of course, is the main reason one would want to use Outline View

The Outline Function references styles by ID number, not by name. This
simplifies the code when they have to change the National Language Style
Names for other languages (of which there are 90-odd).

So to the Outlining Function, the styles are "minus 2 through to minus 10".
The minus, I think, indicates that they're built-ins...

If all you want to do is view the outline using expand and collapse, you can
of course use styles of any name that you like. That mechanism works off
the Outline Level property assigned to the Paragraph Style (or to the
paragraph as direct formatting). It's only the Promote and Demote function
that is going to switch styles on you.

As an alternative, you could use Aliases. A style can have many names. If
you attempt to re-name the built-in styles to the names you want to use,
Word will warn you that you can't do that, then add the names you want to
use as Aliases. The style will have two names: the built-in name, and the
name you added.

You can list it or search for it or apply it using either name. The only
restriction is that you cannot remove the built-in name (because to do so
would break the style table).

Hope this helps

On 17/7/07 10:56 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "patrick j"

On Jul 17, 2007 Clive Huggan wrote:

Patrick,

Is your main requirement to format individual tasks in a way that they will
show up in outline view, so they can be promoted and demoted?

If so, given the futility of giving other styles an outline level (because
Word will over-ride, as you've discovered), here's a suggestion: use, say,
Headings 6 to 9 for your To-Do items. By that I don't mean that you keep
their default appearance -- change that to what you want, which needn't be
bold etc -- but that you take advantage of the fact that you are not going
to be using these heading levels for the usual "heading" purposes. And that
you can utilize the way Word is hard-wired.

I think that is a very good idea and might be the way to go.

While you're altering the appearance of the lower-level headings, add to
their name a comma (not comma+space) followed by the number, to produce, for
example, "Heading 6,6". Then you can apply the style without using the
menus: Command-Shift-s => 6 => [Return key].

I'm going to try that.

Because Outline View fundamentally depends on Word's headings being used.
Bear in mind that, because Word is sold in many different languages, the
hard-wired headings, under the bonnet [being a Brit, you speak proper
English] are actually numbers. You could however make aliases (a process
that John McGhie may come by and describe, but one that I have never used)
but it's just not worth the trouble.

I think it is best to go with the flow rather than against it and so I will
use the hard-wired heading styles.

John McGhie echos your comments and I am grateful to him for his post as
well.

I must say that although the outlining view is simple it is very slick in
its functioning.

Word has an unbounded ability to perplex... ;-)

It does take a bit of getting used to

I was a user of the Nisus Writer world processor (on classic OS) for many
years and Word is a very different program indeed.

I am getting the hang of it however and rather enjoying it. The last
version of Word I used was 5.1a which was a very fine word processor.

 

[John McGhie]

Yeah, well I was sitting in my t-shirt, shorts and sandals watching a nice
picture on TV of snow falling on Clive at the time

It's 25 degrees up here Ummm... Celsius, for the geographically
challenged (i.e. Nice and warm...)

Cheers

There you are, Patrick, I told you he might take the bait... ;-)

The worst thing is, for the present he is demonstrating his erudition from
the Balmy Far North of Australia, while we are *freezing* here in the Deep
South. And when we spoke on the phone this morning, he was *crowing* about
it!

CH
===

Hi Patrick:

Your only limitation is if you are going to use the "Outlining Function".
Which, of course, is the main reason one would want to use Outline View

The Outline Function references styles by ID number, not by name. This
simplifies the code when they have to change the National Language Style
Names for other languages (of which there are 90-odd).

So to the Outlining Function, the styles are "minus 2 through to minus 10".
The minus, I think, indicates that they're built-ins...

If all you want to do is view the outline using expand and collapse, you can
of course use styles of any name that you like. That mechanism works off
the Outline Level property assigned to the Paragraph Style (or to the
paragraph as direct formatting). It's only the Promote and Demote function
that is going to switch styles on you.

As an alternative, you could use Aliases. A style can have many names. If
you attempt to re-name the built-in styles to the names you want to use,
Word will warn you that you can't do that, then add the names you want to
use as Aliases. The style will have two names: the built-in name, and the
name you added.

You can list it or search for it or apply it using either name. The only
restriction is that you cannot remove the built-in name (because to do so
would break the style table).

Hope this helps

On Jul 18, 2007 Clive Huggan wrote:

On 17/7/07 10:56 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "patrick j"

On Jul 17, 2007 Clive Huggan wrote:

Patrick,

Is your main requirement to format individual tasks in a way that they will
show up in outline view, so they can be promoted and demoted?

If so, given the futility of giving other styles an outline level (because
Word will over-ride, as you've discovered), here's a suggestion: use, say,
Headings 6 to 9 for your To-Do items. By that I don't mean that you keep
their default appearance -- change that to what you want, which needn't be
bold etc -- but that you take advantage of the fact that you are not going
to be using these heading levels for the usual "heading" purposes. And that
you can utilize the way Word is hard-wired.

I think that is a very good idea and might be the way to go.

While you're altering the appearance of the lower-level headings, add to
their name a comma (not comma+space) followed by the number, to produce,
for
example, "Heading 6,6". Then you can apply the style without using the
menus: Command-Shift-s => 6 => [Return key].

I'm going to try that.

Because Outline View fundamentally depends on Word's headings being used.
Bear in mind that, because Word is sold in many different languages, the
hard-wired headings, under the bonnet [being a Brit, you speak proper
English] are actually numbers. You could however make aliases (a process
that John McGhie may come by and describe, but one that I have never used)
but it's just not worth the trouble.

I think it is best to go with the flow rather than against it and so I will
use the hard-wired heading styles.

John McGhie echos your comments and I am grateful to him for his post as
well.

I must say that although the outlining view is simple it is very slick in
its functioning.

Word has an unbounded ability to perplex... ;-)

It does take a bit of getting used to

I was a user of the Nisus Writer world processor (on classic OS) for many
years and Word is a very different program indeed.

I am getting the hang of it however and rather enjoying it. The last
version of Word I used was 5.1a which was a very fine word processor.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[patrick j]

Your only limitation is if you are going to use the "Outlining Function".
Which, of course, is the main reason one would want to use Outline View

[snipped lots of excellent info]

Hi John

Thank you for this. I have added your posting to the growing number I keep
in an archive on Office for the Mac.

Knowledge is power

Now I comprehend why it is the way it is, why when I promote or demote it
switches styles.

I think I've now evolved a "to do list" approach that works well with the 9
heading styles and this will be the way to do

 

[patrick j]

There you are, Patrick, I told you he might take the bait... ;-)

The worst thing is, for the present he is demonstrating his erudition from
the Balmy Far North of Australia, while we are *freezing* here in the Deep
South. And when we spoke on the phone this morning, he was *crowing* about
it!

We have had the wettest July since records began.

Fortunately living as I do on south coast it hasn't been too bad but in the
North of England there has been real trouble with flooding and there was
even a risk of a dam breaking.

My garden is very grateful for it

 

[patrick j]

It took till Word 2001 before I found I had to change because of
cross-platform problems. There are of course far more features in Word 2004
than 5.1a, and we perhaps tend to forget how many there are, but there was a
solidity and what I'd call "end-results-focused" quality about the features
in 5.1a that I'm sure, if they had been developed without porting from
Windows versions, would have resulted in an outstanding product today.

I agree, 5.1a was solid and had all that is really needed.

I suppose you're aware of "Bend Word to Your Will"?

I am and I am going to download it

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Patrick:

You're very welcome. The thought of Huggan typing with chattering teeth to
you wearing water-wings was worth it

Cheers

Your only limitation is if you are going to use the "Outlining Function".
Which, of course, is the main reason one would want to use Outline View

[snipped lots of excellent info]

Hi John

Thank you for this. I have added your posting to the growing number I keep
in an archive on Office for the Mac.

Knowledge is power

Now I comprehend why it is the way it is, why when I promote or demote it
switches styles.

I think I've now evolved a "to do list" approach that works well with the 9
heading styles and this will be the way to do

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]