Vexing problem with wrapping style and indentation

[Doug]

I've had this problem for a long time & have never found an adequate
solution. My company letterhead requires a different left margin for the
first page. The conventional solution to this problem is to place a
rectangular shape object in the first page header with wrapping style set to
square. This pushes all of the text on the first page to the right the
appropriate amount.

However, it also destroys any indentation on the first page. Eg, paragraph
indentation seems to be ignored.

The workarounds are clumsy at best. One is to place any first-page text that
requires indentation in a table. Indentation works for text inside a table.
But the problem with that solution is that when the text in question is long
(extending to page 2), you have to manually play with the page break to get
the table right. Getting the table right turns out to be more work than just
using a manual section break to change the margin.

The other workaround is to use soft-returns and tabs at the end of each
line. This is the workaround I prefer, as at least my users can understand
and use it. However, it means that for indented paragraphs on the first page
of our letterhead, users have to use Word as if it were a manual typewriter.

I've reported this issue as a bug in several beta versions of Word
(including 2007) and never got a resolution. What Word really needs is the
ability to set a different first page margin, in the same manner as
different first page headers/footers. Or, a "floating" section break that
occurs at the bottom of the current page rather than at a precise text
location. Until then we will be futzing with clutzy workarounds.

Does anyone know of a way to control paragraph indentation for paragraphs
that are displaced because of square wrapping?

--Doug

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

The third workaround is to eliminate the text box and use an indented
paragraph style for just the first page (indented far enough to clear the
letterhead material in the left margin). This is not satisfactory, either. I
also wish MS would fix this.

 

[macropod]

Hi Doug,

Using paragraphs formatted with the appropriate styles for the document as a whole (not just the first page) I'm unable to reproduce
the symptoms you describe. Styles using bullets & indents all work correctly, that is, they're all offset to accommodate the
autoshape.

Cheers

--
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]


"Doug" <dougATloweNOSPAMwriterDOTyou-know-what> wrote in message | I've had this problem for a long time & have never found an adequate
| solution. My company letterhead requires a different left margin for the
| first page. The conventional solution to this problem is to place a
| rectangular shape object in the first page header with wrapping style set to
| square. This pushes all of the text on the first page to the right the
| appropriate amount.
|
| However, it also destroys any indentation on the first page. Eg, paragraph
| indentation seems to be ignored.
|
| The workarounds are clumsy at best. One is to place any first-page text that
| requires indentation in a table. Indentation works for text inside a table.
| But the problem with that solution is that when the text in question is long
| (extending to page 2), you have to manually play with the page break to get
| the table right. Getting the table right turns out to be more work than just
| using a manual section break to change the margin.
|
| The other workaround is to use soft-returns and tabs at the end of each
| line. This is the workaround I prefer, as at least my users can understand
| and use it. However, it means that for indented paragraphs on the first page
| of our letterhead, users have to use Word as if it were a manual typewriter.
|
| I've reported this issue as a bug in several beta versions of Word
| (including 2007) and never got a resolution. What Word really needs is the
| ability to set a different first page margin, in the same manner as
| different first page headers/footers. Or, a "floating" section break that
| occurs at the bottom of the current page rather than at a precise text
| location. Until then we will be futzing with clutzy workarounds.
|
| Does anyone know of a way to control paragraph indentation for paragraphs
| that are displaced because of square wrapping?
|
| --Doug
|
|

 

[Doug]

Thanks! That's weird, though, as I absolutely cannot get paragraph indents
to work properly if the paragraph is not part of a list. Bullet/number
indentation works properly, but if I set indentation for a paragraph that's
not part of a list, the paragraph does not indent if it is wrapped around a
shape.

I think I might have a workaround, however -- If I specify a Bullet for the
style, the paragraph indents properly. So I set the bullet character to a
space, and voila! The indentation works fine.

As screwey as lists can be in Word, I'm concerned about unintended
side-effects of this approach. Can you think of any negative effects of
using this technique? One is that there's nothing to stop the user from
messing with this customized bullet via Format->Bullets & Numbering. Are
there other points to argue against this solution?

--Doug

Hi Doug,

Using paragraphs formatted with the appropriate styles for the document as
a whole (not just the first page) I'm unable to reproduce
the symptoms you describe. Styles using bullets & indents all work
correctly, that is, they're all offset to accommodate the
autoshape.

Cheers

--
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]


"Doug" <dougATloweNOSPAMwriterDOTyou-know-what> wrote in message
| I've had this problem for a long time & have never found an adequate
| solution. My company letterhead requires a different left margin for the
| first page. The conventional solution to this problem is to place a
| rectangular shape object in the first page header with wrapping style
set to
| square. This pushes all of the text on the first page to the right the
| appropriate amount.
|
| However, it also destroys any indentation on the first page. Eg,
paragraph
| indentation seems to be ignored.
|
| The workarounds are clumsy at best. One is to place any first-page text
that
| requires indentation in a table. Indentation works for text inside a
table.
| But the problem with that solution is that when the text in question is
long
| (extending to page 2), you have to manually play with the page break to
get
| the table right. Getting the table right turns out to be more work than
just
| using a manual section break to change the margin.
|
| The other workaround is to use soft-returns and tabs at the end of each
| line. This is the workaround I prefer, as at least my users can
understand
| and use it. However, it means that for indented paragraphs on the first
page
| of our letterhead, users have to use Word as if it were a manual
typewriter.
|
| I've reported this issue as a bug in several beta versions of Word
| (including 2007) and never got a resolution. What Word really needs is
the
| ability to set a different first page margin, in the same manner as
| different first page headers/footers. Or, a "floating" section break
that
| occurs at the bottom of the current page rather than at a precise text
| location. Until then we will be futzing with clutzy workarounds.
|
| Does anyone know of a way to control paragraph indentation for
paragraphs
| that are displaced because of square wrapping?
|
| --Doug
|
|

 

[Doug]

Suzanne, do you also experience the problem with indentation not working
when the paragraph is wrapped around a shape?

--Doug

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Yes, this is a known bug; see “WD2000: Hanging Indent Lost When Text Wraps
to Right Side of Square Wrapped Object”
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/209633

 

[macropod]

Hi Doug,

I tested with bullets and paragraphs with style-based numbering, which I was I hadn't replicated the problem.

The workaround you mention should work for the whole document, but you might want to restrict it to styles that others don't depend
on - just in case they get screwed up. Also, instead of using a space as a bullet, I think customizing the bullet allows you to set
it to nothing (the first symbol in the symbols set). As for the risk that someone will ruin all your good work via Format|Bullets &
Numbering, I don't see that as being any more of a risk than any number of other changes they could make.

For the benefit of others who might want to have a different first-page left margin:

First off, format the document with a 'different first page' layout, then insert a rectangular autoshape on the left side of the
first page header. This autoshape should be high enough to span the range between the header and footer, and as wide as the desired
additional indent. Set the colours and borders to whatever you want and format the layout as 'Square' & 'Left'.

Back in the body of the document, select/create a paragraph style you want to be able to use on the first page, as well as in the
rest of the document (you might want to create one if there are any dependent styles you don't want affected by the following).

Now, with that style, select Format|Style|Modify|Format|Numbering>Bulleted>Customize. Choose a bullet style, then Customize>Bullet
and set the bullet to the first symbol (i.e. nothing). Click OK|OK.

Next, select Format|Paragraph and set the indent properties to whatever you want - minus an offset for the tab that necessarily
follows a bullet (this should be equal to your std tab setting) for the left indent. For example, if you want the first line
indented one tab stop, set the first line indent to 0. Conversely, for a hanging indent, setting the left indent to a space
equivalent to -1 tab stop and the hanging amount to 2 tab stops will result in a paragraph with a typical hanging indent appearance.
Click OK.

Finally, select Format|Tabs and delete any you don't want for this style (the previous actions may have created some). Click
OK|OK|Apply.

If you do this for each style you want to be able to use on the first page, the problem should be solved.

Cheers

--
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]
-------------------------

Thanks! That's weird, though, as I absolutely cannot get paragraph indents to work properly if the paragraph is not part of a
list. Bullet/number indentation works properly, but if I set indentation for a paragraph that's not part of a list, the paragraph
does not indent if it is wrapped around a shape.

I think I might have a workaround, however -- If I specify a Bullet for the style, the paragraph indents properly. So I set the
bullet character to a space, and voila! The indentation works fine.

As screwey as lists can be in Word, I'm concerned about unintended side-effects of this approach. Can you think of any negative
effects of using this technique? One is that there's nothing to stop the user from messing with this customized bullet via
Format->Bullets & Numbering. Are there other points to argue against this solution?

--Doug

Hi Doug,

Using paragraphs formatted with the appropriate styles for the document as a whole (not just the first page) I'm unable to
reproduce
the symptoms you describe. Styles using bullets & indents all work correctly, that is, they're all offset to accommodate the
autoshape.

Cheers

--
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]


"Doug" <dougATloweNOSPAMwriterDOTyou-know-what> wrote in message | I've had this problem for a long time & have never found an adequate
| solution. My company letterhead requires a different left margin for the
| first page. The conventional solution to this problem is to place a
| rectangular shape object in the first page header with wrapping style set to
| square. This pushes all of the text on the first page to the right the
| appropriate amount.
|
| However, it also destroys any indentation on the first page. Eg, paragraph
| indentation seems to be ignored.
|
| The workarounds are clumsy at best. One is to place any first-page text that
| requires indentation in a table. Indentation works for text inside a table.
| But the problem with that solution is that when the text in question is long
| (extending to page 2), you have to manually play with the page break to get
| the table right. Getting the table right turns out to be more work than just
| using a manual section break to change the margin.
|
| The other workaround is to use soft-returns and tabs at the end of each
| line. This is the workaround I prefer, as at least my users can understand
| and use it. However, it means that for indented paragraphs on the first page
| of our letterhead, users have to use Word as if it were a manual typewriter.
|
| I've reported this issue as a bug in several beta versions of Word
| (including 2007) and never got a resolution. What Word really needs is the
| ability to set a different first page margin, in the same manner as
| different first page headers/footers. Or, a "floating" section break that
| occurs at the bottom of the current page rather than at a precise text
| location. Until then we will be futzing with clutzy workarounds.
|
| Does anyone know of a way to control paragraph indentation for paragraphs
| that are displaced because of square wrapping?
|
| --Doug
|
|

 

[Doug]

Thanks!

It is incredibly annoying that Microsoft made such drastic changes to the UI
for Office 2007, but didn't fix widely-known bugs and ignored the many
requests for different first-page margins.

--Doug

Hi Doug,

I tested with bullets and paragraphs with style-based numbering, which I
was I hadn't replicated the problem.

The workaround you mention should work for the whole document, but you
might want to restrict it to styles that others don't depend on - just in
case they get screwed up. Also, instead of using a space as a bullet, I
think customizing the bullet allows you to set it to nothing (the first
symbol in the symbols set). As for the risk that someone will ruin all
your good work via Format|Bullets & Numbering, I don't see that as being
any more of a risk than any number of other changes they could make.

For the benefit of others who might want to have a different first-page
left margin:

First off, format the document with a 'different first page' layout, then
insert a rectangular autoshape on the left side of the first page header.
This autoshape should be high enough to span the range between the header
and footer, and as wide as the desired additional indent. Set the colours
and borders to whatever you want and format the layout as 'Square' &
'Left'.

Back in the body of the document, select/create a paragraph style you want
to be able to use on the first page, as well as in the rest of the
document (you might want to create one if there are any dependent styles
you don't want affected by the following).

Now, with that style, select
Format|Style|Modify|Format|Numbering>Bulleted>Customize. Choose a bullet
style, then Customize>Bullet and set the bullet to the first symbol (i.e.
nothing). Click OK|OK.

Next, select Format|Paragraph and set the indent properties to whatever
you want - minus an offset for the tab that necessarily follows a bullet
(this should be equal to your std tab setting) for the left indent. For
example, if you want the first line indented one tab stop, set the first
line indent to 0. Conversely, for a hanging indent, setting the left
indent to a space equivalent to -1 tab stop and the hanging amount to 2
tab stops will result in a paragraph with a typical hanging indent
appearance. Click OK.

Finally, select Format|Tabs and delete any you don't want for this style
(the previous actions may have created some). Click OK|OK|Apply.

If you do this for each style you want to be able to use on the first
page, the problem should be solved.

Cheers

--
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]
-------------------------

Thanks! That's weird, though, as I absolutely cannot get paragraph
indents to work properly if the paragraph is not part of a list.
Bullet/number indentation works properly, but if I set indentation for a
paragraph that's not part of a list, the paragraph does not indent if it
is wrapped around a shape.

I think I might have a workaround, however -- If I specify a Bullet for
the style, the paragraph indents properly. So I set the bullet character
to a space, and voila! The indentation works fine.

As screwey as lists can be in Word, I'm concerned about unintended
side-effects of this approach. Can you think of any negative effects of
using this technique? One is that there's nothing to stop the user from
messing with this customized bullet via Format->Bullets & Numbering. Are
there other points to argue against this solution?

--Doug

Hi Doug,

Using paragraphs formatted with the appropriate styles for the document
as a whole (not just the first page) I'm unable to reproduce
the symptoms you describe. Styles using bullets & indents all work
correctly, that is, they're all offset to accommodate the
autoshape.

Cheers

--
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]


"Doug" <dougATloweNOSPAMwriterDOTyou-know-what> wrote in message
| I've had this problem for a long time & have never found an adequate
| solution. My company letterhead requires a different left margin for
the
| first page. The conventional solution to this problem is to place a
| rectangular shape object in the first page header with wrapping style
set to
| square. This pushes all of the text on the first page to the right the
| appropriate amount.
|
| However, it also destroys any indentation on the first page. Eg,
paragraph
| indentation seems to be ignored.
|
| The workarounds are clumsy at best. One is to place any first-page
text that
| requires indentation in a table. Indentation works for text inside a
table.
| But the problem with that solution is that when the text in question
is long
| (extending to page 2), you have to manually play with the page break
to get
| the table right. Getting the table right turns out to be more work
than just
| using a manual section break to change the margin.
|
| The other workaround is to use soft-returns and tabs at the end of
each
| line. This is the workaround I prefer, as at least my users can
understand
| and use it. However, it means that for indented paragraphs on the
first page
| of our letterhead, users have to use Word as if it were a manual
typewriter.
|
| I've reported this issue as a bug in several beta versions of Word
| (including 2007) and never got a resolution. What Word really needs is
the
| ability to set a different first page margin, in the same manner as
| different first page headers/footers. Or, a "floating" section break
that
| occurs at the bottom of the current page rather than at a precise text
| location. Until then we will be futzing with clutzy workarounds.
|
| Does anyone know of a way to control paragraph indentation for
paragraphs
| that are displaced because of square wrapping?
|
| --Doug
|
|

 

[macropod]

Hi Doug,

Perhaps there hasn't been enough pressure to encourage different first-page margins. At least there's a workaround.

Cheers

--
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]
-------------------------

Thanks!

It is incredibly annoying that Microsoft made such drastic changes to the UI
for Office 2007, but didn't fix widely-known bugs and ignored the many
requests for different first-page margins.

--Doug

Hi Doug,

I tested with bullets and paragraphs with style-based numbering, which I
was I hadn't replicated the problem.

The workaround you mention should work for the whole document, but you
might want to restrict it to styles that others don't depend on - just in
case they get screwed up. Also, instead of using a space as a bullet, I
think customizing the bullet allows you to set it to nothing (the first
symbol in the symbols set). As for the risk that someone will ruin all
your good work via Format|Bullets & Numbering, I don't see that as being
any more of a risk than any number of other changes they could make.

For the benefit of others who might want to have a different first-page
left margin:

First off, format the document with a 'different first page' layout, then
insert a rectangular autoshape on the left side of the first page header.
This autoshape should be high enough to span the range between the header
and footer, and as wide as the desired additional indent. Set the colours
and borders to whatever you want and format the layout as 'Square' &
'Left'.

Back in the body of the document, select/create a paragraph style you want
to be able to use on the first page, as well as in the rest of the
document (you might want to create one if there are any dependent styles
you don't want affected by the following).

Now, with that style, select
Format|Style|Modify|Format|Numbering>Bulleted>Customize. Choose a bullet
style, then Customize>Bullet and set the bullet to the first symbol (i.e.
nothing). Click OK|OK.

Next, select Format|Paragraph and set the indent properties to whatever
you want - minus an offset for the tab that necessarily follows a bullet
(this should be equal to your std tab setting) for the left indent. For
example, if you want the first line indented one tab stop, set the first
line indent to 0. Conversely, for a hanging indent, setting the left
indent to a space equivalent to -1 tab stop and the hanging amount to 2
tab stops will result in a paragraph with a typical hanging indent
appearance. Click OK.

Finally, select Format|Tabs and delete any you don't want for this style
(the previous actions may have created some). Click OK|OK|Apply.

If you do this for each style you want to be able to use on the first
page, the problem should be solved.

Cheers

--
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]
-------------------------

Thanks! That's weird, though, as I absolutely cannot get paragraph
indents to work properly if the paragraph is not part of a list.
Bullet/number indentation works properly, but if I set indentation for a
paragraph that's not part of a list, the paragraph does not indent if it
is wrapped around a shape.

I think I might have a workaround, however -- If I specify a Bullet for
the style, the paragraph indents properly. So I set the bullet character
to a space, and voila! The indentation works fine.

As screwey as lists can be in Word, I'm concerned about unintended
side-effects of this approach. Can you think of any negative effects of
using this technique? One is that there's nothing to stop the user from
messing with this customized bullet via Format->Bullets & Numbering. Are
there other points to argue against this solution?

--Doug


Hi Doug,

Using paragraphs formatted with the appropriate styles for the document
as a whole (not just the first page) I'm unable to reproduce
the symptoms you describe. Styles using bullets & indents all work
correctly, that is, they're all offset to accommodate the
autoshape.

Cheers

--
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]


"Doug" <dougATloweNOSPAMwriterDOTyou-know-what> wrote in message
| I've had this problem for a long time & have never found an adequate
| solution. My company letterhead requires a different left margin for
the
| first page. The conventional solution to this problem is to place a
| rectangular shape object in the first page header with wrapping style
set to
| square. This pushes all of the text on the first page to the right the
| appropriate amount.
|
| However, it also destroys any indentation on the first page. Eg,
paragraph
| indentation seems to be ignored.
|
| The workarounds are clumsy at best. One is to place any first-page
text that
| requires indentation in a table. Indentation works for text inside a
table.
| But the problem with that solution is that when the text in question
is long
| (extending to page 2), you have to manually play with the page break
to get
| the table right. Getting the table right turns out to be more work
than just
| using a manual section break to change the margin.
|
| The other workaround is to use soft-returns and tabs at the end of
each
| line. This is the workaround I prefer, as at least my users can
understand
| and use it. However, it means that for indented paragraphs on the
first page
| of our letterhead, users have to use Word as if it were a manual
typewriter.
|
| I've reported this issue as a bug in several beta versions of Word
| (including 2007) and never got a resolution. What Word really needs is
the
| ability to set a different first page margin, in the same manner as
| different first page headers/footers. Or, a "floating" section break
that
| occurs at the bottom of the current page rather than at a precise text
| location. Until then we will be futzing with clutzy workarounds.
|
| Does anyone know of a way to control paragraph indentation for
paragraphs
| that are displaced because of square wrapping?
|
| --Doug
|
|