W3C Validation

D

deacon

I tried to validate a page that had border colors for the table but it said
there is no "bordercolor" attribute, also no "height" attribute. Since Front
Page generates this code, would it be fair to say that FP generates code that
cannot be validated using <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2
Final//EN">. Is it that important to validate the web? Your comments please.
 
K

Kevin Spencer

Is it that important to validate the web?

It is as important as you want it to be. Anywhere from "not at all" to
"very," depending upon your requirements. Since you're asking, I would have
to say "not at all."

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You Seek Is What You Get.
 
M

Murray

would it be fair to say that FP generates code that
cannot be validated using <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2
Final//EN">.
Click to expand...

Yes. However, to be fair, FP only did what you told it to. So, really, you
are the culprit.

You can avoid the bordercolor error by using CSS to specify such things, and
the table height - well - that's never been part of any HTML spec.
Is it that important to validate the web?
Click to expand...

It depends on how extensively you want to test your pages.

I code to standards validation because this gives me confidence that my
pages will look the same in all modern browsers. Then I test extensively in
IE6 (which is sometimes quirky in its support for HTML4.01 or XHTML strict),
and in IE5.x (which is abysmal). Usually the tweaks are minor.

By not having a valid and complete doctype on your page, you accept the
slings and arrows of the various browsers' "QUIRKS MODE" rendering. This
can be pretty shocking from one browser to the next and one platform to the
next.

But it's really up to you how much this means to you as a developer and to
your clients.
 
M

Mike Mueller

Your comments are correct. Without a doctype the browsers go
into quirk mode, so there maybe anamolies depending on which
browser is used. I personally feel it is important and I
usually try to make my pages compliant.

There are several items which generate the errors like you
state, and they are generally easy enough to fix. Here is an
example:
FP-
<table border="1" cellpadding="0" bordercolor="#FF0000">

compliant
<table style="border 1px solid red; padding: 0">

Forget about the height, it will not validate.
When everything is all compliant, your page should render
the same regardless of the browser. But not all browsers
adopt the 'standards' set by the w3c, so it will be awhile
before every compliant page renders the same on different
browsers.

Mike

******************************************************************
:I tried to validate a page that had border colors for the
table but it said
: there is no "bordercolor" attribute, also no "height"
attribute. Since Front
: Page generates this code, would it be fair to say that FP
generates code that
: cannot be validated using <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
"-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2
: Final//EN">. Is it that important to validate the web?
Your comments please.
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

If you have the ability to test your site pages in the most commonly used browsers/versions and they
display as you would expect them to, you really don't need to validate. Remember, all that a site
visitor is concerned about is being able to view and read the content of your site, not whether it
validates or not.

Validation is helpful in pointing out flaws in your coding, and when using FP webbots most will not
validate, however if the page displays correctly, you can ignore the warning/error messages or just
don't use those features of FP.

I mostly code to HTML3.2 Recommendations and the browser's Quirk Mode. I test the site layout in
NS3.04, NS4.08, NS6.21, NS7.0, FireFox and Opera. I do not use FP Navigation, Themes, Shared
Borders, etc. not because they don't validate, but because they come with imposed limitations.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
K

Kevin Spencer

Sure, Murray. But no bloviating. That's my job. ;-)

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You Seek Is What You Get.
 
J

Jon Spivey

I look at it the other way around. If you write valid code (or have a good
reason not to) it's going to work in modern browsers. I see NN4 traffic
leaking out the door - today so far it's 6 out of 12831. The browser I'm
worried about is safari - over the last month I've seen safari at 2% up
from 1.6 last month has anyone else seen this seen this picking up speed?
Thinking it's probably time to put a mac on my desk
 
D

deacon

Why does "my asking" translate to "not at all" ?

Kevin Spencer said:
It is as important as you want it to be. Anywhere from "not at all" to
"very," depending upon your requirements. Since you're asking, I would have
to say "not at all."

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You Seek Is What You Get.
Click to expand...
 
K

Kevin Spencer

Why does "my asking" translate to "not at all" ?

Clever observation, deacon! It translates to "not at all" because you didn't
give any reason for needing it.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You Seek Is What You Get.
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

I have not seen (or noticed) Mac Safari browsers on any of my sites.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
J

Joe Rohn

Hi Jon,

FWIW I just checked last 3 months on a site that gets about 18,000 visitors
per month. The Safari numbers during that time were:

..2% .8% .6% Hard to spot any trend with those numbers... all being less than
1%
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

Jon,

They may be included under the 40 Unknown browsers, as on 1 site I am seeing 112 MAC PPC Platform
users (7%) for the last 7 days.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
C

Cheryl Wise

On some of my sites 6% of my visitors use Macs. The browser split is 60/40
Safari and Firefox with one lone Opera for the Mac user. FWIW, I've had a
Mac for testing web pages for 2.5 years.

I still have some sites without a single Mac visitor so my stats are all
over the board.
 

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