What was MS thinking?

[Komonoway]

Office '07 is productivity catastrophe. If anyone's seen "Idiocracy" the new
ribbion menu is like the nurse's keypad. Every useful and easily accessable
feature has been converted into some kind of alien/terrorizer pictography.
In addition, workflow has been cattle-gated into some kind of 7-step start to
finish tab progression that fits the pictograph scheme. In MS's defense this
tactile/visual Ancient Egyptian experience more understandable to "new
users",...like, who? Who on this planet is "new" to MS Office? I guess my
question is, how is the professional community going to get it's lost hours
back?

 

[Gordon]

Office '07 is productivity catastrophe. If anyone's seen "Idiocracy" the
new
ribbion menu is like the nurse's keypad. Every useful and easily
accessable
feature has been converted into some kind of alien/terrorizer pictography.
In addition, workflow has been cattle-gated into some kind of 7-step start
to
finish tab progression that fits the pictograph scheme. In MS's defense
this
tactile/visual Ancient Egyptian experience more understandable to "new
users",...like, who? Who on this planet is "new" to MS Office? I guess
my
question is, how is the professional community going to get it's lost
hours
back?

Rubbish. If they truly ARE "professional" they'll just learn it.

 

[Gemini]

Komonoway, there are many longterm/power users who do not like the Ribbon UI.
I used the trial version for several weeks. I use Excel heavily. It kept on
crashing intermittently. I found the Ribbon UI to be ridiculous, illogical
and counterproductive. It provided zero advantage to me over the classic UI.
For these reasons, I decided not to shell out the $$$s MS wanted and reverted
to Office 2003.

Don't be surprised to be attacked, ridiculed, etc. by some rabid posters
here who adore the new UI and lack the maturity to understand that others may
not share their viewpoint.

BTW, the crashes stopped after reverting to Office 2003. Go figure!

Feel free to let MS know how you feel about the Ribbon UI. In addition,
here's a link to Jensen Harris' blog. He's the one who led the team that
designed the Ribbon UI and decided not to provide a classic UI alternative.
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/

BTW, your description of the Ribbon UI is excellent. I have never seen the
UI described in this manner before!<G>

hth!

-- Gemini

 

[Gordon]

Komonoway, there are many

Many? Numbers? Statistics? Or are you just making an anecdotal statement?

longterm/power users who do not like the Ribbon UI.
I used the trial version for several weeks. I use Excel heavily. It kept
on
crashing intermittently. I found the Ribbon UI to be ridiculous, illogical
and counterproductive. It provided zero advantage to me over the classic
UI.
For these reasons, I decided not to shell out the $$$s MS wanted and
reverted
to Office 2003.

I am an advanced Excel user (AFAIK there is no such term as "power" user)
and have used Office since Office 95, also Lotus 123 and many other Office
suites. I find the opposite to you. The Ribbon is NOT "illogical, ridiculous
and counterproductive". Your application skills are obviously just not very
good. Don't project your lack of application skills onto the software.

 

[Gemini]

Many? Numbers? Statistics? Or are you just making an anecdotal statement?
That's based on the posts I've read here and elsewhere. Read Jensen's blog.
Several posters have questioned the validity of the data that was used in
designing the Ribbon and the data that supposedly indicates the "success" of
the Ribbon. Not surprisingly, JH has maintained a solid silence to those
questions.

I personally know many "captive" users, ie. those who are forced to use it
in the workplace. I've also read of instances where cos. reverted to Office
2003, because their user base did not find much value in Office 2007.

I am an advanced Excel user (AFAIK there is no such term as "power" user)
and have used Office since Office 95, also Lotus 123 and many other Office
suites.

LOL! You claim to be an advanced user and you've never heard of the term
"power user"? Actually, it is a very widely used term. BTW, I've been using
Office apps, including Excel, many more years than you. Currently, I use
Excel as a part of managing multiple investment portfolios.

I find the opposite to you.

You do have a right to your opinion.

The Ribbon is NOT "illogical, ridiculous and counterproductive". Your application >skills are obviously just not very good. Don't project your lack of application >skills onto the software.

Gordon, now you're getting personal here. I do have a very extensive
background in using Office apps, as well as in software/gui design and
architecture. Based on your own posts about your background, I'm way ahead of
you in terms of designing and using software. It is not a very bright idea to
make such comments about someone whose background you do not know.

Here are a couple of links you might want to read before making comments
about others' expertise with Excel (or any other app, for that matter).
http://www.officelabs.com/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=38

The second post is mine. The other two are power users (yes, they use that
term themselves, despite the fact you never heard of it before).

Here's another link that clearly indicates how well Excel users like the
Ribbon.
http://www.exceluser.com/explore/surveys/ribbon/results.htm

hth!

-- Gemini

 

[Gordon]

That's based on the posts I've read here and elsewhere.

<sigh> You never see healthy people at the doctors do you? Just as you never
hear in the newsgroups from those who a) like it or b) just get on with
learning it.

 

[Gemini]

Actually, I DO see healthy people at the doctor's office. They're usually
there to ensure their continued good health. It's called preventive
healthcare and is quite prevalent here in the US.

Actually, I HAVE heard from some here who actually like the new UI.
Unfortunately, some of this group repeatedly indulges in personal attacks
against those who don't share their views. I've also read posts where some
"just got on with it", usually not out of choice, more so because they're
"captive" users.

-- Gemini

 

[Gordon]

Actually, I DO see healthy people at the doctor's office. They're usually
there to ensure their continued good health. It's called preventive
healthcare and is quite prevalent here in the US.

Are you sure they don't work there?

 

[Gemini]

Are you sure they don't work there?
Absolutely! Actually, I find the difference quite easy to tell. However, I
suppose there are some who aren't able to do so.

-- Gemini

 

[Another Brian]

<sigh> You never see healthy people at the doctors do you? Just as
you never hear in the newsgroups from those who a) like it or b)
just get on with learning it.

I would love it if someone would do an unbiased blind survey of the
ribbon and Office 2007. I do not mean a web page asking questions. I
mean having a professional survey company do one that randomly selects
a large enough population. I suspect (hope) that the ribbon would not
win the popularity contest, but don't know what would happen.

Brian

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

And I suspect the opposite.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact.
How to ask a question:
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375


After furious head scratching, Another Brian asked:

| || |||| Many? Numbers? Statistics? Or are you just making an anecdotal
|||| statement?
||| That's based on the posts I've read here and elsewhere.
||
|| <sigh> You never see healthy people at the doctors do you? Just as
|| you never hear in the newsgroups from those who a) like it or b)
|| just get on with learning it.
| I would love it if someone would do an unbiased blind survey of the
| ribbon and Office 2007. I do not mean a web page asking questions. I
| mean having a professional survey company do one that randomly selects
| a large enough population. I suspect (hope) that the ribbon would not
| win the popularity contest, but don't know what would happen.
|
| Brian

 

[Beth Melton]

I would love it if someone would do an unbiased blind survey of the ribbon
and Office 2007. I do not mean a web page asking questions. I mean having
a professional survey company do one that randomly selects a large enough
population. I suspect (hope) that the ribbon would not win the popularity
contest, but don't know what would happen.

I thought that at first too but now the old UI seems well...old. <g>

 

[Gemini]

Brian, Jensen Harris claimed high acceptance of Office 2007 and the Ribbon on
his blog. Several posters asked him for details on the data supporting that
statement and how the data was collected. Eg. counting "captive" users (those
who don't have a choice), wouldn't make for an accurate survey. However, JH
has, so far, maintained a solid silence on that point.

Here's some feedback from Excel users.
http://www.exceluser.com/explore/surveys/ribbon/results.htm

The above survey isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the Ribbon. I am
quite certain MS is not going to conduct the survey you suggest, since the
results will most likely be an embarrassment, if the above survey is any
indication.

Check places like TechRepublic. There are instances where cos. have reverted
to Office 2003, because the user base complained and they didn't find any
advantage with Office 2007. If the ROI in training the staff to use the
Ribbon and/or the new features in 2007 isn't high, there's little sense in
making that investment.

-- Gemini

 

[BCP]

I would suspect the longer and more accoustomed one is to the old menus the
less likely one is to be happy having to learn a new menu system. No matter
which side of the debate you are on you must agree the menus are radically
different. I have been an Access programmer and Excel user for 20 years now
and the new menus are an annoyance to me because I can't find things as
easily. It reminds me of the transition I had from Wordperfect to MS Word.

 

[BCP]

I must just work with an odd group of people. The majority of my coworkers
who have experienced the new menus are not very impressed with them because
the learning curve is an irritant. The concensus at my office is it is
something that must be relearned with little or no value add.

 

[BCP]

What is the value add with the new menus? I have Office 2007 and I am still
not clear how the new menus are better. I am clear on the downside what is
the upside. What functionality have I gained that I am not taking advantage
of to offset the issues they create? For example, the new menus have created
a conversion issue with one of my Access applications that has custom menus I
still need to remediate before I can roll out.

Thank you in advance for your assistance with this question.

 

[Harlan Grove]

. . . For example, the new menus have created
a conversion issue with one of my Access applications that has
custom menus I still need to remediate before I can roll out.

....

This is the wrong newsgroup for technical discussions about specific
applications, ESPECIALLY developing applicatons running under Excel or
Access.

Without doubt and beyond argument, the new UI is a major and massive
PITA for Excel and Access application developers. The CLAIM is that if
we port from VBA to VSTO that will go a long way towards solving the
UI problems. Shame that leads to distribution issues due to .Net
version hell.

You might want to check out the Access-specific newsgroups. As for
Excel 2007, the single most useful macro statement is

Application.ExecuteExcel4Macro "SHOW.TOOLBAR(""Ribbon"",False)"

Maybe there's something similar for Access. If so, there's always the
kludge of modeless dialogs containing command buttons as poor
replacements for classic toolbars.

For Access you do have other options. Maybe the best would be
continuing to use Access 2003 for development and bundling your
applications with the Access 2003 runtime, which I believe is still
freely redistributable. Downside is that users who don't already have
it would need to install it.

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

And yet you made the transition and are now having the same difficulty
making a similar jump to the Office 2007 interface.

The more things change... etc.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact.
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375


After furious head scratching, BCP asked:

| I would suspect the longer and more accoustomed one is to the old
| menus the less likely one is to be happy having to learn a new menu
| system. No matter which side of the debate you are on you must agree
| the menus are radically different. I have been an Access programmer
| and Excel user for 20 years now and the new menus are an annoyance to
| me because I can't find things as easily. It reminds me of the
| transition I had from Wordperfect to MS Word.
|
| "Gemini" wrote:
|
||| Are you sure they don't work there?
|| Absolutely! Actually, I find the difference quite easy to tell.
|| However, I suppose there are some who aren't able to do so.
||
|| -- Gemini
||
|| "Gordon" wrote:
||
||| |||| Actually, I DO see healthy people at the doctor's office. They're
|||| usually there to ensure their continued good health. It's called
|||| preventive healthcare and is quite prevalent here in the US.
|||
||| Are you sure they don't work there?

 

[Harlan Grove]

And yet you made the transition and are now having the same difficulty
making a similar jump to the Office 2007 interface.

....

Just as most of us make the transition from youth to old age. Are you
equating the inevitable with the desired?

 

[Komonoway]

Glad to see this question generated some response. Gemini, thank you for
sharring in my sentiment. I'm still kinda new to these MS forums and they're
really helping with all the trouble I'm comming into. Just a couple side
questions to bring this post back from the dead, who are these "MVP" folks?
Do these guys work for MS...all they're posts are like "Shutup, shutup,
Office 2007 rules, there's no user problems, it's compatable with
everything". Okay...well...so us how the new UI "increases" productivity,
almost everything I try to do, be it in Excel or Word is taking me more
clicks and more time. Mr. Frisch wanted to be a smartallic and post links to
some 07 training videos...okay, if I have to take time out of my day to take
training to learn where the same features are on a software I've been using
for 10 years...that's a fail. That's an epic fail.