Why can Word 08 Open Password-Protected FilesBut Not PPT or Excel?

P

Pale_Rider

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: Intel

Title sort of says it all. At first, I could not understand what was happening when I could open password-protected Word files, but not PPT or Excel files sent by the same PC author. And then I came to this forum and discovered the answer: "you just can't."

I am curious: what was the thinking of the MacBU--which ordinarily does great work--to set up this second-class capability not just between the Mac and PC sides, but within the Mac product itself?
 
P

Pale_Rider

I stand corrected. It seems that simple password-protection in Excel is no problem. So, it is only PPT. Why?
 
J

Jim Gordon MVP

I stand corrected. It seems that simple password-protection in Excel is no problem. So, it is only PPT. Why?
Click to expand...

There are at least two reasons that I know of that explain why Mac PPT
never implemented file password protection.

The primary reason is that this kind of protection is almost no
protection at all. A search of the internet will result in several
explanations on how to crack this kind of password using VBA. It's very
easy to circumvent, and this fact is widely known. A few years ago there
was a security push and some security experts were pointing out that
reliance on file passwords is fool-hearty. There were suggestions that
the feature be removed from Office completely and replaced by digital
certificates, which are secure but are cumbersome and expensive. In the
end, no changes were made to file passwords and Windows Office got
digital certificates capabilities which hardly anyone ever uses because
they are a PITA.

A secondary reason is that hardly anyone password protects PowerPoint
presentations on Windows. Only recently (past couple years) has the
issue even come up on the Mac. MacBU felt that it would be wasteful to
spend a lot of money to put in a feature that really doesn't do what it
is supposed to do.

-Jim
 
P

Pale_Rider

Jim:

Thanks for taking the time to reply. However, I think you are arguing for the case that password protection shouldn't be in the product to begin with. At an abstract level, I agree.

But it IS in the product. it's in the Windows version, and I am sorry, it IS being used. I see this sort of passwording as a lot like an old-fashioned latch on a screen door: it might not keep the real criminals out, but it does help control the children and the small animals. The folks in my company use it to make it just a little harder to pry into sensitive documents. For most users, who might be tempted to click on a document, the password will discourage them. When we send important stuff out externally, we encrypt it; but for internal communications, where rapid-fire changes occur all day long, passwording is not a bad way to impose a level of inconvenience on eavesdropping.

I have no argument with your assessment of the weakness of passwording, and the PITA of certificates. But that's not really the point, is it? The reality is that passwording is in Word, and it is available on both platforms. it is also in PPT only on the PC platform. And once again, those of us Mac users who are in mixed environments are ghettoized.

"Hardly anyone"? According to whom? Trust me, all it takes is one time to have the chain of communication fail. I am the lone Mac user on my executive team. Every time one of these hiccups occurs, it means I have to go to my office, or fire up WMWare Fusion; it imposes delays and makes it that much harder to justify my usage of my Mac [which I pay for out of my own pocket].
 
C

CyberTaz

No disagreement with any of your points, but unfortunately there is no
solution to your dilemma - Mac PPT simply does not support file level
password protection & never has. If you hope to see any change it would be
worth while to use Help> Send Feedback to argue your case to MacBU. They do
monitor the suggestions/requests submitted through that resource & if the
volume of requests are significant on any given feature it will be
considered for inclusion in the next major release - but that certainly is
no guarantee :)

The unfortunate user assumption is that each of the Office apps are
*identical* on both platforms. The fact is that they are not - the Mac apps
have features not in the PC version & vice-versa. Although it may seem that
the Mac users are "ghettoized" you have to keep things in perspective...

MacBU is just one small self-reliant niche component in a Windows driven
mega-corporation & caters to a market a fraction of the size (and
profitability) of the PC market. If the Mac apps were identical Office:Mac
would carry a price tag roughly 10 times its current price - maybe more.

I'm not saying it's *right*, just that that's how it is :)

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac




Jim:

Thanks for taking the time to reply. However, I think you are arguing for the
case that password protection shouldn't be in the product to begin with. At an
abstract level, I agree.

But it IS in the product. it's in the Windows version, and I am sorry, it IS
being used. I see this sort of passwording as a lot like an old-fashioned
latch on a screen door: it might not keep the real criminals out, but it does
help control the children and the small animals. The folks in my company use
it to make it just a little harder to pry into sensitive documents. For most
users, who might be tempted to click on a document, the password will
discourage them. When we send important stuff out externally, we encrypt it;
but for internal communications, where rapid-fire changes occur all day long,
passwording is not a bad way to impose a level of inconvenience on
eavesdropping.

I have no argument with your assessment of the weakness of passwording, and
the PITA of certificates. But that's not really the point, is it? The reality
is that passwording is in Word, and it is available on both platforms. it is
also in PPT only on the PC platform. And once again, those of us Mac users who
are in mixed environments are ghettoized.

"Hardly anyone"? According to whom? Trust me, all it takes is one time to have
the chain of communication fail. I am the lone Mac user on my executive team.
Every time one of these hiccups occurs, it means I have to go to my office, or
fire up WMWare Fusion; it imposes delays and makes it that much harder to
justify my usage of my Mac [which I pay for out of my own pocket].
Click to expand...
 
P

Pale_Rider

I've been an Office user for over 15 years on both platforms, and I have never made any assumptions about the platform equivalencies across the product. I watch the product development carefully, have been on the Office user lists and Entourage-Talk lists for years, and was even a usability tester for an early version of Office 06. I am all too aware of the differences between the platforms, and I greatly admire MacBU's efforts to bring a good product to our platform.

This one seems like a unfortunate omission. But as security-consciousness grows, and PPT use keeps growing for even routine 2-3 page documents, the gap in usability caused by this little omission will get wider. So, Bob, I appreciate your suggestion; I followed your advice and submitted feedback to the MacBU.
 
J

Jim Gordon MVP

Jim:

Thanks for taking the time to reply. However, I think you are arguing for the case that password protection shouldn't be in the product to begin with. At an abstract level, I agree.

But it IS in the product. it's in the Windows version, and I am sorry, it IS being used. I see this sort of passwording as a lot like an old-fashioned latch on a screen door: it might not keep the real criminals out, but it does help control the children and the small animals. The folks in my company use it to make it just a little harder to pry into sensitive documents. For most users, who might be tempted to click on a document, the password will discourage them. When we send important stuff out externally, we encrypt it; but for internal communications, where rapid-fire changes occur all day long, passwording is not a bad way to impose a level of inconvenience on eavesdropping.

I have no argument with your assessment of the weakness of passwording, and the PITA of certificates. But that's not really the point, is it? The reality is that passwording is in Word, and it is available on both platforms. it is also in PPT only on the PC platform. And once again, those of us Mac users who are in mixed environments are ghettoized.

"Hardly anyone"? According to whom? Trust me, all it takes is one time to have the chain of communication fail. I am the lone Mac user on my executive team. Every time one of these hiccups occurs, it means I have to go to my office, or fire up WMWare Fusion; it imposes delays and makes it that much harder to justify my usage of my Mac [which I pay for out of my own pocket].
Click to expand...

Hi Pale Rider

If it's any consolation to you, there have been a number of similar
complaints concerning password protection parity between PPT Mac and
Windows. Those people, too, responded by sending feedback to Microsoft.

You'll be able to tell when the next full version of Office comes out,
whether or not there was sufficient demand to cause MacBU to add that
parity to Windows office. On the other hand, in the next round of
Office, Windows office might ditch the password protection scheme and
bring Windows PowerPoint in line with Mac PowerPoint. Either way, parity
is achieved.

Incompatibility is a two-sided street. It's just as bad for the Windows
team to be out of step with the Mac product as it is for the Mac side to
be out of step with Windows. Given that you agree that file password
protection is lame, it might be a better idea to complain about this to
the Windows PowerPoint team and ask them to get rid this lame scheme
altogether, noting both the lack of true security and the cross-platform
problems that it has caused you for when the Windows side decided
unilaterally to put file password capability into their product. As I
said, newer "cloud computing" technologies such as office.live.com
workspace sharing make that old password scheme look downright obsolete.

I wish I had the Windows Office feedback link handy for you, but
unfortunately I don't.

-Jim
 
S

Steve Rindsberg

Yet another reason why password protection at the file level is unnecessary:

New today from Microsoft - 25 gig of free storage for Macs - and you can
password protect shared files:
http://skydrive.live.com/
Click to expand...

Well ...

IF per-file password protection worked and IF it didn't lock out a segment of
the population entirely, I'd still prefer it, I think.

Protecting a shared folder is certainly useful for some things, but suppose I
have access to your shared folder, download a PPT that contains proprietary
information that you don't want to go any further.

What's to prevent me from handing copies out to all and sundry? If I did
that, would there be any protection at all?

[Steve, ya dunce, go LOOK at skydrive.live and find out]

Um. Yeah. While you're thinking up a good answer, I'll do that. <g>

[Goes there. Does that.]

Nope ...unless I'm missing something, this doesn't get me much further than,
say, a password protected web directory.
 
C

CyberTaz

Hi Steve;

<snip>
What's to prevent me from handing copies out to all and sundry? If I did
that, would there be any protection at all?
Click to expand...
<snip>

And if you give them a pw protected file - along with the pw, of course -
what's to keep that same unscrupulous individual from (a) removing the pw,
(b) saving a copy without the pw, or (c) just plain printing or showing the
file around once they open it?

The bottom line is irrefutable: If you allow the file into the hands of
*anyone* it's then theirs to do with as they see fit :)

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
 
S

Steve Rindsberg

Hi Steve;

<snip>

<snip>

And if you give them a pw protected file - along with the pw, of course -
what's to keep that same unscrupulous individual from (a) removing the pw,
(b) saving a copy without the pw, or (c) just plain printing or showing the
file around once they open it?

The bottom line is irrefutable: If you allow the file into the hands of
*anyone* it's then theirs to do with as they see fit :)
Click to expand...

Pretty much so, yeah. That's what we usually preach over on t'other side of
Platform Gulch.
 
S

Steve Rindsberg

Hi Steve;

<snip>

<snip>

And if you give them a pw protected file - along with the pw, of course -
what's to keep that same unscrupulous individual from (a) removing the pw,
(b) saving a copy without the pw, or (c) just plain printing or showing the
file around once they open it?

The bottom line is irrefutable: If you allow the file into the hands of
*anyone* it's then theirs to do with as they see fit :)
Click to expand...

Not to beat the horse any deader than it already is, poor old thing, but
there's one bit I forgot about, and it's really more the key:

PPT/Windows 2001 and up lets you set a modify password as well as an open
password. If the file's modify-protected, when others open the file, they'll
be asked if they know the pwd. If not, the file opens read-only. They can't
edit it, copy bits from it or save it.

Unless they know how. ;-)

But for many folks, this is sufficient. Some industries, for example, need
to distribute PPTs and don't care who else sees them, but they don't want
anyone seeing a version that's been meddled with.

OK Dobbin. Take your well-earned rest.
 

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