Why did Microsoft abandon Frontpage users?

[Curt]

I was just looking at what has been done to Frontpage and basically have
come away completely confused. I have used the product for years because it
didn't require years of study to get decent results. Now it's broken into
four different packages and they don't even bother putting up a comparison
chart?

I tried the beta and frankly it lacked even the rudimentary feel of
Frontpage not to mention a lot of other missing things.

Now after watching a video clip I learn that it's being integrated into the
visual programming app suite. Sorry I don't use that and don't have a degree
in programming.

I've just gone and downloaded Dreamweaver and GoLive! does anyone have any
other suggestions for programs that match Frontpages ease of use? Microsoft
no longer offers a package for me basically. Everything is prices similarly
to Adobe as far as I could tell and the application array is so confusing I
have no idea what's going on.

Add that to the fact that Vista Ultimate doesn't support hardware on either
my laptop or my desktop computer both of which are under 6 months old and I
gotta say I have to wonder what in the world they were thinking when
designing this stuff. It's impossible to install or to use.

To think I bought my first version of office on floppies so many years ago
and now I really so see no alternative but to look elsewhere. I have a
business to run and don't have time to be figuring all this crap out.
Somewhere along the line continuity was basically destroyed.

 

[Joe Rohn]

Hi Curt,

Expression isn't for everyone..and you aren't in a situation where you are
forced to change/upgrade to it. If you are happy with FrontPage..why not
just continue using it?

 

[Regina]

I've been using FP for years and when 2003 came out I figured it wouldn't be
long before they would do something convoluted. I strted a searh over a year
ago and found a great little HTML web builder I enjoy using. It's called Web
Page Maker found at http://www.webpage-maker.com/. It's a very simple program
with a small learning curve. If you know FP 2002 and 2003 you'll have no
issues with it. There are a few diferences in inserting content but nothing
you can't overcome.

 

[+Bob+]

Everything is prices similarly
to Adobe as far as I could tell and the application array is so confusing I
have no idea what's going on.

Me either - and I have tons more experience than you. It's very
confusing. Makes you wonder sometimes if they have any clue at all -
then you see what goes on inside MS and you realize that they are so
MS absorbed and divorced from reality... and it all begins to make
sense.

Add that to the fact that Vista Ultimate doesn't support hardware on either
my laptop or my desktop computer both of which are under 6 months old

They don't care about the 10-20% of people that they piss off since
they make plenty of money selling forced upgrades to the other 80%.

To think I bought my first version of office on floppies so many years ago
and now I really so see no alternative but to look elsewhere. I have a
business to run and don't have time to be figuring all this crap out.
Somewhere along the line continuity was basically destroyed.

I've work inside and outside with MS - the bottom line is that they
don't really care about you or your business needs.

 

[Murray]

Trust me, you will be no happier with either DW or GL than you were with EW.

Just stick with FP.

Both DW and GL will require that you learn something about how to build
websites (as does EW)....

 

[Rob Giordano \(Crash\)]

You can stick with FP for quite a while you know. And, if you decide to
upgrade to EW it's under 90$ USD...a LOT cheaper than DW...not to mention
the learning curve.



|
|
| I was just looking at what has been done to Frontpage and basically have
| come away completely confused. I have used the product for years because
it
| didn't require years of study to get decent results. Now it's broken into
| four different packages and they don't even bother putting up a comparison
| chart?
|
| I tried the beta and frankly it lacked even the rudimentary feel of
| Frontpage not to mention a lot of other missing things.
|
| Now after watching a video clip I learn that it's being integrated into
the
| visual programming app suite. Sorry I don't use that and don't have a
degree
| in programming.
|
| I've just gone and downloaded Dreamweaver and GoLive! does anyone have any
| other suggestions for programs that match Frontpages ease of use?
Microsoft
| no longer offers a package for me basically. Everything is prices
similarly
| to Adobe as far as I could tell and the application array is so confusing
I
| have no idea what's going on.
|
| Add that to the fact that Vista Ultimate doesn't support hardware on
either
| my laptop or my desktop computer both of which are under 6 months old and
I
| gotta say I have to wonder what in the world they were thinking when
| designing this stuff. It's impossible to install or to use.
|
| To think I bought my first version of office on floppies so many years ago
| and now I really so see no alternative but to look elsewhere. I have a
| business to run and don't have time to be figuring all this crap out.
| Somewhere along the line continuity was basically destroyed.

 

[Bob Lehmann]

I feel the same way.

My new printer doesn't work with windows 3.1, when my 20 year old printer
worked fine until it broke.

It also p*sses me off that I can't find a replacement buttonhook for my
shoes.

Next thing you know, they'll be moving my favorite radio shows to that dad
gum tellyvisionary thing.

BTW - can anybody tell me where I can buy an 8-track tape with that new
group, The Cars, on it?

Bob Lehmann

 

[Bob Lehmann]

they make plenty of money selling forced upgrades

How, exactly, have you been forced to upgrade?

Are you aware that you can actually make a web page with - brace yourself -
a text editor of your choice?

Or even - again, hold on - the software you have won't suddenly stop working
when new things arrive?

Bob Lehmann

 

[Steve Easton]

How, exactly, have you been forced to upgrade?

Are you aware that you can actually make a web page with - brace yourself -
a text editor of your choice?

You can even make one with Outlook Express set to compose in html mode.
Knowing how to save / publish it is a different issue though.

;-)

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
FP Cleaner
http://www.95isalive.com/fixes/fpclean.htm
Hit Me FP
http://www.95isalive.com/fixes/HitMeFP.htm
Coming Soon: Function5 Auto Refresh

 

[+Bob+]

How, exactly, have you been forced to upgrade?

You cut out the part where I said "80% of users". The large Corporate
Market is in a forced upgrade situation - upgrade, or no support. The
20% of home users can do what they want, in perpetuity, until some
other MS OS or product "upgrade" causes FP to stop working.

Are you aware that you can actually make a web page with - brace yourself -
a text editor of your choice?
Or even - again, hold on - the software you have won't suddenly stop working
when new things arrive?

Please reread my post. I don't remember suggesting anything regarding
the inability of the software to continue operating in the short term
or whether or not you can choose other product. I commented on MS's
lack of regard for their customers. If you are suggesting that their
customers can just "go away" as a solution then I guess you are
agreeing with my post.

FYI - FP is already in trouble. ISP's/Web Hosts/Hosting Control Panel
firms have stated that they will drop support for FP extensions as
soon as the first hole is discovered in them and/or when MS stops
issuing security upgrades. I don't know when they will stop doing
that but I suspect it's not far away based on past experience. In
addition, firms writing FP extensions/updates for Unix are sure to cut
those products soon now that FP is a dead end.

 

[Bob Lehmann]

You cut out the part where I said "80% of users".

Actually, I *was* addressing the part where you said
"they make plenty of money selling forced upgrades to the other 80%."

The large Corporate Market doesn't use FP for their websites, nor would they
use any proprietary features of *any* vendors to build their websites.

I'm not upgrading, downgrading or sidegrading, nor do I feel forced to do
so.
software to continue operating

Then why are you oushing the notion of a "forced upgrade"?

Bob Lehmann

 

[+Bob+]

The large Corporate Market doesn't use FP for their websites, nor would they
use any proprietary features of *any* vendors to build their websites.

We must consult with different large corporations then. While I rarely
see use of FP for the external sites, I find lots of corps using it
internally with company supplied templates/branding designed
specifically to work with FP. Those folks are very intimidated by DW
or other, more advanced applications.

I'm not upgrading, downgrading or sidegrading, nor do I feel forced to do
so.

Neither do I - at least as long as FP continues to work. But, I use it
in a far different way that most of the people posting here. I'm
guessing you do too.

software to continue operating

Then why are you oushing the notion of a "forced upgrade"?

I believe I answered that in the last post.

 

[KDalton]

I'm going to have to agree with Bob on this one. I just bought a new
computer because my 11 year old daughter spilled a "little bit" of milk on
the laptop keyboard. In case you're wondering, I wasn't too mad and she's
just fine Anway, this "new thing" has Vista on it and I've had to go and
buy another printer because there is no driver for the one I have/had that
will work with Vista. Mind you, the old one has brand new ink to the tune of
$60. I'm not happy.

Now I'm transferring the files from one computer to the other and alas! what
doesn't seem to be working....my FP program. I "thought" I had installed
it.....hmmm NOPE! Some part of it went through, but not the part I need. By
the way, its (get this) FrontPage 98. Yup, 98. I like it just fine. The very
sad thing about all of this is I NEED this program to work because guess what
I have, you guessed it, an internet business and guess what I used to create
my website. Oh yeah, FP98 and now I can't use it???

Somebody PLEASE tell me I'm wrong and I just messed up something along the
way. If not, I know of 1 computer and 1 printer and 1 Easy Transfer Cable
that's being returned and I'll see if I can find an "old" new-to-me computer
so I can work.

Thanks!

 

[Tom Willett]

I don't believe FP98 is supported on Vista.
It's a very old program.
--
===
Tom Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
FrontPage Support:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
===

|
| I'm going to have to agree with Bob on this one. I just bought a new
| computer because my 11 year old daughter spilled a "little bit" of milk on
| the laptop keyboard. In case you're wondering, I wasn't too mad and she's
| just fine Anway, this "new thing" has Vista on it and I've had to go
and
| buy another printer because there is no driver for the one I have/had that
| will work with Vista. Mind you, the old one has brand new ink to the tune
of
| $60. I'm not happy.
|
| Now I'm transferring the files from one computer to the other and alas!
what
| doesn't seem to be working....my FP program. I "thought" I had installed
| it.....hmmm NOPE! Some part of it went through, but not the part I need.
By
| the way, its (get this) FrontPage 98. Yup, 98. I like it just fine. The
very
| sad thing about all of this is I NEED this program to work because guess
what
| I have, you guessed it, an internet business and guess what I used to
create
| my website. Oh yeah, FP98 and now I can't use it???
|
| Somebody PLEASE tell me I'm wrong and I just messed up something along the
| way. If not, I know of 1 computer and 1 printer and 1 Easy Transfer Cable
| that's being returned and I'll see if I can find an "old" new-to-me
computer
| so I can work.
|
| Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
| "Bob Lehmann" wrote:
|
| > I feel the same way.
| >
| > My new printer doesn't work with windows 3.1, when my 20 year old
printer
| > worked fine until it broke.
| >
| > It also p*sses me off that I can't find a replacement buttonhook for my
| > shoes.
| >
| > Next thing you know, they'll be moving my favorite radio shows to that
dad
| > gum tellyvisionary thing.
| >
| > BTW - can anybody tell me where I can buy an 8-track tape with that new
| > group, The Cars, on it?
|

 

[KDalton]

Thanks Tom. Is there anyway to go from Vista back to XP? The only other
option for me is to return everything I just bought.

Thanks

 

[Joe Rohn]

Depending upon the hardware/software configurations you have on the new
computer....you might be able to partition and install XP as a second
operating system.

Another less expensive way might be to see if you can find a newer copy of
FrontPage than 98 (2002 or 2003) on eBay..and buy that. (a fully licensed
version..either an upgrade or a full version) One of those should install on
the Vista machine..and I think...if you get the upgrade version that will
allow you to install on the new Vista machine.(assuming your FrontPage 98
version is the full version) I am not 100% certain about that though.

 

[Will]

What takes the place of frontpage for the low end person would be the
Office suite. Office 2003 and especially 2007 have plenty of features
to create basic web pages with text and pictures

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Expression Web

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================

 

[Tom Miller]

I'm going to have to agree with Bob on this one. I just bought a new
computer because my 11 year old daughter spilled a "little bit" of milk on
the laptop keyboard. In case you're wondering, I wasn't too mad and she's
just fine Anway, this "new thing" has Vista on it and I've had to go
and
buy another printer because there is no driver for the one I have/had that
will work with Vista. Mind you, the old one has brand new ink to the tune
of
$60. I'm not happy.

Now I'm transferring the files from one computer to the other and alas!
what
doesn't seem to be working....my FP program. I "thought" I had installed
it.....hmmm NOPE! Some part of it went through, but not the part I need.
By
the way, its (get this) FrontPage 98. Yup, 98. I like it just fine. The
very
sad thing about all of this is I NEED this program to work because guess
what
I have, you guessed it, an internet business and guess what I used to
create
my website. Oh yeah, FP98 and now I can't use it???

Somebody PLEASE tell me I'm wrong and I just messed up something along the
way. If not, I know of 1 computer and 1 printer and 1 Easy Transfer Cable
that's being returned and I'll see if I can find an "old" new-to-me
computer
so I can work.

Thanks!

You may want to backgrade your OS down to XP.....

 

[Tom Miller]

What takes the place of frontpage for the low end person would be the
Office suite. Office 2003 and especially 2007 have plenty of features
to create basic web pages with text and pictures

I haven't looked at 2003 etc but any Office product that will allow you to
"save as a webpage" will get you some kind of webpage. May not be a very
good one but it will work somewhat depending on exactly Microsoft set it up
to do. My understanding is sometimes the html code is unique enough it will
not work well on a public website without cleanup (TidyupGUI for instance).

Tom