Why isn't OL2007 e-mail more like Google Mail?

[CJSnet]

I had a look at a friend's Google Mail Inbox the other day, and it's really
impressive.

E-mails are automatically grouped by conversation. Better still, when you
read one message, the others in the thread appear as popup tabs above and
below it, which you can enlarge or reduce with one click. It's truly cool.

(Outlook can't do this unless you create a special search folder, and then
that doesn't work very well.)

Then Google Mail automatically removes the rest of the thread which you
don't want cluttering the window and replaces it with 'Show quoted text',
just like Google Groups. Again truly cool.

(Outlook does nothing like this, and you have sometimes 100s of lines of
text below getting in the way. It doesn't even let you specify a maximum
number of lines to truncate the attached thread to when replying. Even
Windows Mobile lets you do that.)

I'm just surprised Outlook 2007 beta 2 doesn't offer more improvements by
way of e-mail. Surely we won't have to wait for Outlook 2011 before we seek
this? By then it'll be old news and everyone will be using Google Mail
instead! Not good for MS so hopefully they read this or someone can post
this in the beta group.

--
Thanks,
CJSnet

Try Google Quik-e-search™ at www.Superhighstreet.com/home
....Finds anything or they buy it for you!

[remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]

 

[Milly Staples - MVP Outlook]

Because Google mail is web based and for anyone. Outlook is the client for
Exchange and will always have different behaviors. If you like Google mail,
fine, just don't expect anyone else, especially Microsoft to build a clone.
Why would they?

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, CJSnet asked:

| I had a look at a friend's Google Mail Inbox the other day, and it's
| really impressive.
|
| E-mails are automatically grouped by conversation. Better still,
| when you read one message, the others in the thread appear as popup
| tabs above and below it, which you can enlarge or reduce with one
| click. It's truly cool.
|
| (Outlook can't do this unless you create a special search folder, and
| then that doesn't work very well.)
|
| Then Google Mail automatically removes the rest of the thread which
| you don't want cluttering the window and replaces it with 'Show
| quoted text', just like Google Groups. Again truly cool.
|
| (Outlook does nothing like this, and you have sometimes 100s of lines
| of text below getting in the way. It doesn't even let you specify a
| maximum number of lines to truncate the attached thread to when
| replying. Even Windows Mobile lets you do that.)
|
| I'm just surprised Outlook 2007 beta 2 doesn't offer more
| improvements by way of e-mail. Surely we won't have to wait for
| Outlook 2011 before we seek this? By then it'll be old news and
| everyone will be using Google Mail instead! Not good for MS so
| hopefully they read this or someone can post this in the beta group.

 

[William Lefkovics [MVP]]

You are kidding, right?

You do make a couple of good feature suggestions, but to compare the two is
not totally conclusive. They each have their own good qualities, and often
represent different markets.

But then, most of the people I know read their Google Mail with Outlook
because gmail's interface is intolerable, online only, and laced with
advertizing.

Now if you want to talk about Zimbra or Scalix, I'm all ears.

 

[CJSnet]

You are kidding, right?

No, because the two feature suggestions I made are very good ones.

You do make a couple of good feature suggestions

Thanks, that's all I was trying to do. Next step is to get MS to recognise
them.

but to compare the two is
not totally conclusive. They each have their own good qualities, and
often
represent different markets.

No reason for MS not to include good features from one in the other though.

But then, most of the people I know read their Google Mail with Outlook
because gmail's interface is intolerable, online only, and laced with
advertizing.

Yes, I'm not suggesting MS change the entire interface to copy Google and
add adverts.

Now if you want to talk about Zimbra or Scalix, I'm all ears.

Well if they have the 2 features I suggest, then so am I!
--
Thanks,
CJSnet

Try Google Quik-e-searchT at www.Superhighstreet.com/home
....Finds anything or they buy it for you!

[remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]

 

[CJSnet]

Thanks Milly, but these aren't really "different behaviours", they are
enhancements to the way Outlook does things.

Outlook already has the Conversations view which is good, but doesn't work
very well. Use it in Inbox and you only see the incoming parts of the
conversation! That's not really a conversation is it.

The best feature of all would be for MS to simply add a detector to replace
all the quoted text below the latest e-mail, with a little drop-down button
like Google's "- Show quoted text -" option. This is a Godsend. Outlook
will look the same, still be a client for Exchange, but it's just what I
think is a really cool feature suggestion that will lead to a much cleaner,
clearer, less cluttered user experience.

That after all was one of the reasons they introduced the ribbon. Do you
have any influence is passing along this small feature request to make it to
Beta 3 of OL2007? If not I'm going to start a 'Show MS we want Show Quoted
Text' petition!
--
Thanks,
CJSnet

Try Google Quik-e-search™ at www.Superhighstreet.com/home
....Finds anything or they buy it for you!

[remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]

Because Google mail is web based and for anyone. Outlook is the client
for
Exchange and will always have different behaviors. If you like Google
mail,
fine, just don't expect anyone else, especially Microsoft to build a
clone.
Why would they?

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, CJSnet asked:

| I had a look at a friend's Google Mail Inbox the other day, and it's
| really impressive.
|
| E-mails are automatically grouped by conversation. Better still,
| when you read one message, the others in the thread appear as popup
| tabs above and below it, which you can enlarge or reduce with one
| click. It's truly cool.
|
| (Outlook can't do this unless you create a special search folder, and
| then that doesn't work very well.)
|
| Then Google Mail automatically removes the rest of the thread which
| you don't want cluttering the window and replaces it with 'Show
| quoted text', just like Google Groups. Again truly cool.
|
| (Outlook does nothing like this, and you have sometimes 100s of lines
| of text below getting in the way. It doesn't even let you specify a
| maximum number of lines to truncate the attached thread to when
| replying. Even Windows Mobile lets you do that.)
|
| I'm just surprised Outlook 2007 beta 2 doesn't offer more
| improvements by way of e-mail. Surely we won't have to wait for
| Outlook 2011 before we seek this? By then it'll be old news and
| everyone will be using Google Mail instead! Not good for MS so
| hopefully they read this or someone can post this in the beta group.

 

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi CJSNet,

Be sure to send your Office 2007 suggestions, comments and feedback on what you do like or what you find difficult to use directly
to the MS Office Product team by using the 2007 feedback tool from the link below.

The tool allows you to send screenshots and descriptions. Be sure to include information on what having a changed feature would
enable you to do better, faster, easier and if it's something you'd use daily, once in awhile, etc.

==============

You are kidding, right?

No, because the two feature suggestions I made are very good ones.

You do make a couple of good feature suggestions

Thanks, that's all I was trying to do. Next step is to get MS to recognise
them. >>

--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office system products MVP

LINKS for the 2007 Office System

1. Read about it, try it, or watch the movie
the 2007 Microsoft Office system iinfo is at
http://microsoft.com/office/preview

2. Already have 2007 Office System Beta 2?
Send Microsoft your feedback (with pictures)
http://sas.office.microsoft.com/

3. Use the 2007 OfficeOnline website without Office2007

a. Install the ActiveX access control
http://office.microsoft.com/search/redir.aspx?AssetID=XT101650581033
b. then visit http://officebeta.iponet.net

 

[Patrick Schmid]

Outlook already has the Conversations view which is good, but doesn't
work

very well. Use it in Inbox and you only see the incoming parts of the
conversation! That's not really a conversation is it.

Quite frankly, Google's conversation view drives me crazy every time. It
always manages to show me an older part of the conversation instead of
the email I just got. It's rather useless in my opinion.

That after all was one of the reasons they introduced the ribbon. Do you
have any influence is passing along this small feature request to make it to
Beta 3 of OL2007? If not I'm going to start a 'Show MS we want Show Quoted
Text' petition!

Won't happen. Outlook 2007 is too far along already for MS to implement
any new features. All MS is going to do for the next beta release is
fixing bugs. New features will have to wait for the next version of
Outlook (#14, Office 13 is being skipped).

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

--
Thanks,
CJSnet

Try Google Quik-e-search™ at www.Superhighstreet.com/home
...Finds anything or they buy it for you!

[remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]

Because Google mail is web based and for anyone. Outlook is the client
for
Exchange and will always have different behaviors. If you like Google
mail,
fine, just don't expect anyone else, especially Microsoft to build a
clone.
Why would they?

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, CJSnet asked:

| I had a look at a friend's Google Mail Inbox the other day, and it's
| really impressive.
|
| E-mails are automatically grouped by conversation. Better still,
| when you read one message, the others in the thread appear as popup
| tabs above and below it, which you can enlarge or reduce with one
| click. It's truly cool.
|
| (Outlook can't do this unless you create a special search folder, and
| then that doesn't work very well.)
|
| Then Google Mail automatically removes the rest of the thread which
| you don't want cluttering the window and replaces it with 'Show
| quoted text', just like Google Groups. Again truly cool.
|
| (Outlook does nothing like this, and you have sometimes 100s of lines
| of text below getting in the way. It doesn't even let you specify a
| maximum number of lines to truncate the attached thread to when
| replying. Even Windows Mobile lets you do that.)
|
| I'm just surprised Outlook 2007 beta 2 doesn't offer more
| improvements by way of e-mail. Surely we won't have to wait for
| Outlook 2011 before we seek this? By then it'll be old news and
| everyone will be using Google Mail instead! Not good for MS so
| hopefully they read this or someone can post this in the beta group.

 

[Milly Staples - MVP Outlook]

Use the Send a Smile options as Bob suggested. You can include screenshots
of what you are talking about but remember, some of these GUI items are
proprietary to third parties and may involve Microsoft having to license
them. That can be a huge stumbling block.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, CJSnet asked:

| Thanks Milly, but these aren't really "different behaviours", they are
| enhancements to the way Outlook does things.
|
| Outlook already has the Conversations view which is good, but doesn't
| work very well. Use it in Inbox and you only see the incoming parts
| of the conversation! That's not really a conversation is it.
|
| The best feature of all would be for MS to simply add a detector to
| replace all the quoted text below the latest e-mail, with a little
| drop-down button like Google's "- Show quoted text -" option. This
| is a Godsend. Outlook will look the same, still be a client for
| Exchange, but it's just what I think is a really cool feature
| suggestion that will lead to a much cleaner, clearer, less cluttered
| user experience.
|
| That after all was one of the reasons they introduced the ribbon. Do
| you have any influence is passing along this small feature request to
| make it to Beta 3 of OL2007? If not I'm going to start a 'Show MS we
| want Show Quoted Text' petition!
|
| "Milly Staples - MVP Outlook"
| || Because Google mail is web based and for anyone. Outlook is the
|| client for
|| Exchange and will always have different behaviors. If you like
|| Google mail,
|| fine, just don't expect anyone else, especially Microsoft to build a
|| clone.
|| Why would they?
||
|| --
|| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||
|| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
|| unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
|| reading.
||
|| After furious head scratching, CJSnet asked:
||
||| I had a look at a friend's Google Mail Inbox the other day, and it's
||| really impressive.
|||
||| E-mails are automatically grouped by conversation. Better still,
||| when you read one message, the others in the thread appear as popup
||| tabs above and below it, which you can enlarge or reduce with one
||| click. It's truly cool.
|||
||| (Outlook can't do this unless you create a special search folder,
||| and then that doesn't work very well.)
|||
||| Then Google Mail automatically removes the rest of the thread which
||| you don't want cluttering the window and replaces it with 'Show
||| quoted text', just like Google Groups. Again truly cool.
|||
||| (Outlook does nothing like this, and you have sometimes 100s of
||| lines of text below getting in the way. It doesn't even let you
||| specify a maximum number of lines to truncate the attached thread
||| to when replying. Even Windows Mobile lets you do that.)
|||
||| I'm just surprised Outlook 2007 beta 2 doesn't offer more
||| improvements by way of e-mail. Surely we won't have to wait for
||| Outlook 2011 before we seek this? By then it'll be old news and
||| everyone will be using Google Mail instead! Not good for MS so
||| hopefully they read this or someone can post this in the beta group.

 

[Brian Vallelunga]

Use the Send a Smile options as Bob suggested. You can include screenshots
of what you are talking about but remember, some of these GUI items are
proprietary to third parties and may involve Microsoft having to license
them. That can be a huge stumbling block.

I too would love to see a more Google-esque conversation view and I have
sent it in as a smiley suggestion. It's not that Google has it perfect,
but that their conversation threading is better than Microsoft's. Having
sent items appear in the thread is a wonderful behavior and many others
have requested such a feature. While it can be made to sort of work,
having this be an out-of-the-box behavior would be great.

Brian

 

[CJSnet]

I too would love to see a more Google-esque conversation view and I have
sent it in as a smiley suggestion. It's not that Google has it perfect,
but that their conversation threading is better than Microsoft's. Having
sent items appear in the thread is a wonderful behavior and many others
have requested such a feature. While it can be made to sort of work,
having this be an out-of-the-box behavior would be great.

Brian

Yes this is exactly what I meant Brian. I am sending a smile from Google
Mail too.
--
Thanks,
CJSnet

Try Google Quik-e-searchT at www.Superhighstreet.com/home
....Finds anything or they buy it for you!

[remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]

 

[deebs]

I can't quite shake the feeling that OL2007 is a minimalist rehash of
what has gone before.

To me I'd expect these as absolute minimums in a 2007 email program:
- can handle multiple email addresses easily-peasily (eg without crashing)
- can handle these with dedicated folders in order to keep mail separate
and distinct rather than relying on a bundle if not quite so effective
Rules to do so
- can handle chat rooms, forums and news groups equally easily-peasily

- Calendar handling should make it easy to identify duplication should
any arise (especially given that phome, PDA, laptop, workstation, server
may have the same (mostly) appointments. Identifying dupes easily
whould be a non-demanding operation

- orchestrating input/output, import/export from a variety of media
should also have a pleasant and unambiguous workflow

 

[Patrick Schmid]

To me I'd expect these as absolute minimums in a 2007 email program:

- can handle multiple email addresses easily-peasily (eg without crashing)

Sure it can. It's a beta version though so crashes are to be expected.

- can handle these with dedicated folders in order to keep mail separate
and distinct rather than relying on a bundle if not quite so effective
Rules to do so

Rules generally work

- can handle chat rooms, forums and news groups equally easily-peasily

Outlook is targeted at business customers with Exchange server. No need
for chat rooms, forums and news groups for those, especially because you
can get a lot of that functionality with other MS products that
integrate into Outlook, but with strict corporate control.

- Calendar handling should make it easy to identify duplication should
any arise (especially given that phome, PDA, laptop, workstation, server
may have the same (mostly) appointments. Identifying dupes easily
whould be a non-demanding operation

Use the send a smile tool to submit this as suggestion.

- orchestrating input/output, import/export from a variety of media
should also have a pleasant and unambiguous workflow

Like what media?


Patrick Schmid

 

[CJSnet]

I can't quite shake the feeling that OL2007 is a minimalist rehash of what
has gone before.

Sorry to say I agree.

To me I'd expect these as absolute minimums in a 2007 email program: ....
- can handle these with dedicated folders in order to keep mail separate
and distinct rather than relying on a bundle if not quite so effective
Rules to do so

Hear hear!

 

[CMM]

Because Google mail is web based and for anyone. Outlook is the client
for
Exchange and will always have different behaviors. If you like Google
mail,
fine, just don't expect anyone else, especially Microsoft to build a
clone.
Why would they?

Because young minds and fresh ideas shouldn't be dismissed. Outlook has an
interface that has been (functionally) unchanged since 1995. Wading through
large sets of incoming e-mail is a chore. Keeping track of long conversation
"threads" is downright impossible. Outlook.... for all its ubiquity.... is
quite possibly the most UNDERUSED piece of software in Office. Nobody uses
to its potential.... and that's largely due to its dinosaur outdated user
interface IMHO.

 

[Patrick Schmid]

It's main window will be updated with Office 14 (#13 is being skipped).

Patrick Schmid

 

[Brian Tillman]

Outlook already has the Conversations view which is good, but doesn't
work very well. Use it in Inbox and you only see the incoming parts
of the conversation! That's not really a conversation is it.

You can have that in Outlook if you want it. Just have your outgoing mail
stored in Inbox instead of Sent Items.

 

[Brian Tillman]

The best feature of all would be for MS to simply add a detector to
replace all the quoted text below the latest e-mail, with a little
drop-down button like Google's "- Show quoted text -" option. This
is a Godsend.

That feature is for lazy people who don't understand the value of
cut-and-paste, like to top-post and never trim the previous messages from
their reply. It's a cosmetic coat of paint hiding a structural behavior
problem.

 

[CJSnet]

That feature is for lazy people who don't understand the value of
cut-and-paste, like to top-post and never trim the previous messages from
their reply. It's a cosmetic coat of paint hiding a structural behavior
problem.

Doesn't mean it isn't extremely useful and that MS shouldn't include it.
Especially seeing as top-posting is a largely Microsoft-supported habit
(that's why my cursor appears in 2 blank lines ABOVE every e-mail and
newsgroup message I reply to in OL/OE).
--
Thanks,
CJSnet

Try Google Quik-e-search™ at www.Superhighstreet.com/home
....Finds anything or they buy it for you!

[remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]

 

[Brian Tillman]

To me I'd expect these as absolute minimums in a 2007 email program:
- can handle multiple email addresses easily-peasily (eg without
crashing)

Once OL 2007 is in production release it will be at least as reliable as
priot Outlooks. My Outlook installations handle four or five separate
accounts with never a crash.

- can handle these with dedicated folders in order to keep mail
separate and distinct rather than relying on a bundle if not quite so
effective Rules to do so

Rules are quite effective.

- can handle chat rooms, forums and news groups equally easily-peasily

Not in a business environment. This is a bad idea. Outlook is already a
large program. Let's not introduce additional areas where things can go
wrong.

- Calendar handling should make it easy to identify duplication should
any arise (especially given that phome, PDA, laptop, workstation,
server may have the same (mostly) appointments. Identifying dupes
easily whould be a non-demanding operation

I get a duplicate in my calendar maybe once or twice a year, despite syncing
with multiple devices. When I do, it's nearly trivial to correct the
problem.

- orchestrating input/output, import/export from a variety of media
should also have a pleasant and unambiguous workflow

Unless absolutely necessary, import and export should be avoided.

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

And which is why I seldom respond to bottom posted messages - it is a waste
of my time so I don't bother.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, CJSnet asked:

| ||
||| The best feature of all would be for MS to simply add a detector to
||| replace all the quoted text below the latest e-mail, with a little
||| drop-down button like Google's "- Show quoted text -" option. This
||| is a Godsend.
||
|| That feature is for lazy people who don't understand the value of
|| cut-and-paste, like to top-post and never trim the previous messages
|| from their reply. It's a cosmetic coat of paint hiding a structural
|| behavior problem.
|
| Doesn't mean it isn't extremely useful and that MS shouldn't include
| it. Especially seeing as top-posting is a largely Microsoft-supported
| habit (that's why my cursor appears in 2 blank lines ABOVE every
| e-mail and newsgroup message I reply to in OL/OE).