Why no Microsoft solution to the problems with getting Office SP1 to install???

[Golem]

It looks like Microsoft has released a very flawed Office
2003 SP1 installer to the public. The problems with it
being unsuccessful in updating Office 2003 are costing a
lot of time/money and causing a lot of aggravation. Is
that really any different to the effects of a Virus? I
don't think it is any different. If someone were to do
the same thing as Microsoft has done with SP1, and other
bug-ridden software and updates, they would now be in the
slammer serving big time. Is it any wonder people and
businesses are abandoning Microsoft products for Linux
(oops, I swore) and Microsoft Office alternatives? So,
how about it Microsoft, give us some real solutions to the
problems your hack(er) programmers have made for us.

Anyone else think/feel the same?????

 

[Mercury]

No. Actually, we have absolutely no problem with the install, which I
understand is true for the vast majority of installations.

 

[Golem]

Well, the postings regarding Office update problems here
and elsewhere on the Internet appear not to be anomolous
for Microsoft's software. There are more than enough
postings of the same problem to warrant a better response
from Microsoft than what has been offered which hasn't
resulted in remedying the problem. There are a lot of
improvements Microsoft could and should make to their
updating mechanism, problem reporting (less cryptic to the
layperson/user), better tech support to the public, etc.;
isn't that what paying the big bugs for? Oops, I meant
bucks, not bugs, or was that a feature, not a bug. If it
was a bug, I will fix that in my next administrative
update, or service pack, or make you pay for it as
an "upgrade". My sarcasm is free.

 

[Howard Kaikow]

Reporting of software problems is biased because, in most cases, there is a
silent majority that had no problems.

In my case, I'm planning on doing a full system backup just before summoning
the courage to install SP 1.

 

[Golem]

"The silent majority", I've heard/seen that somewhere
before from a politician. The silent majority statement
is a fallacy used to convince superficial thinkers that
the expressor's opinion is correct and has basis in fact,
which it doesn't. I could use the same silent majority
argument to support my contention too, that the silent
majority, who don't have an alternative to Microsoft's
software (try to buy a new Dell computer without a
Microsoft operating system), have had problems but they
know there is no point in complaining because Microsoft
won't/can't fix the problems. As well, if a computer is
purchased with Microsoft software, Microsoft declaims any
responibility and assigns it to the computer's
manufacturer who can't give adequate Microsoft product
support.

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

Okay - try thinking logically. How many people are going to seek out a news
group to post that their installation was flawless? Out of 300 million
REGISTERED Office users, how many have you seen complain and no solution
offered?

Real numbers please, not conjecture or opinion.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my personal
account will be deleted without reading.

After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:

| "The silent majority", I've heard/seen that somewhere
| before from a politician. The silent majority statement
| is a fallacy used to convince superficial thinkers that
| the expressor's opinion is correct and has basis in fact,
| which it doesn't. I could use the same silent majority
| argument to support my contention too, that the silent
| majority, who don't have an alternative to Microsoft's
| software (try to buy a new Dell computer without a
| Microsoft operating system), have had problems but they
| know there is no point in complaining because Microsoft
| won't/can't fix the problems. As well, if a computer is
| purchased with Microsoft software, Microsoft declaims any
| responibility and assigns it to the computer's
| manufacturer who can't give adequate Microsoft product
| support.
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
|| Reporting of software problems is biased because, in most cases,
|| there is a silent majority that had no problems.
||
|| In my case, I'm planning on doing a full system backup just before
|| summoning the courage to install SP 1.
|| --
|| http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
|| ||| Well, the postings regarding Office update problems here
||| and elsewhere on the Internet appear not to be anomolous
||| for Microsoft's software. There are more than enough
||| postings of the same problem to warrant a better response
||| from Microsoft than what has been offered which hasn't
||| resulted in remedying the problem. There are a lot of
||| improvements Microsoft could and should make to their
||| updating mechanism, problem reporting (less cryptic to the
||| layperson/user), better tech support to the public, etc.;
||| isn't that what paying the big bugs for? Oops, I meant
||| bucks, not bugs, or was that a feature, not a bug. If it
||| was a bug, I will fix that in my next administrative
||| update, or service pack, or make you pay for it as
||| an "upgrade". My sarcasm is free.
|||
|||
|||| -----Original Message-----
|||| No. Actually, we have absolutely no problem with the install,
|||| which I understand is true for the vast majority of installations.
||||
|||| ||||| It looks like Microsoft has released a very flawed Office
||||| 2003 SP1 installer to the public. The problems with it
||||| being unsuccessful in updating Office 2003 are costing a
||||| lot of time/money and causing a lot of aggravation. Is
||||| that really any different to the effects of a
| Virus? I
||||| don't think it is any different. If someone were to do
||||| the same thing as Microsoft has done with SP1, and other
||||| bug-ridden software and updates, they would now be in the
||||| slammer serving big time. Is it any wonder people and
||||| businesses are abandoning Microsoft products for Linux
||||| (oops, I swore) and Microsoft Office alternatives? So,
||||| how about it Microsoft, give us some real solutions to the
||||| problems your hack(er) programmers have made for us.
|||||
||||| Anyone else think/feel the same?????
||||
||||
|||| .
||||
||
||
|| .

 

[Golem]

I am thinking logically. Accusing someone of not thinking
logically is the fallacy of personal attack.

Read another person's statement about the Office 2003 SP1
problem at:

http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/previewFrame.as
p?
ICP=Prod_Office&sLCID=US&sgroupURL=microsoft.public.officeu
pdate&sMessageID=%
(e-mail address removed)%253E

There are lot's of posts about people experiencing Office
SP1 installation problems, they are just the tip of
the "iceberg". That's my rebuttal to your "silent
majority" statement.

-----Original Message-----
Okay - try thinking logically. How many people are going to seek out a news
group to post that their installation was flawless? Out of 300 million
REGISTERED Office users, how many have you seen complain and no solution
offered?

Real numbers please, not conjecture or opinion.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my personal
account will be deleted without reading.

After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:

| "The silent majority", I've heard/seen that somewhere
| before from a politician. The silent majority statement
| is a fallacy used to convince superficial thinkers that
| the expressor's opinion is correct and has basis in fact,
| which it doesn't. I could use the same silent majority
| argument to support my contention too, that the silent
| majority, who don't have an alternative to Microsoft's
| software (try to buy a new Dell computer without a
| Microsoft operating system), have had problems but they
| know there is no point in complaining because Microsoft
| won't/can't fix the problems. As well, if a computer is
| purchased with Microsoft software, Microsoft declaims any
| responibility and assigns it to the computer's
| manufacturer who can't give adequate Microsoft product
| support.
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
|| Reporting of software problems is biased because, in most cases,
|| there is a silent majority that had no problems.
||
|| In my case, I'm planning on doing a full system backup just before
|| summoning the courage to install SP 1.
|| --
|| http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
|| ||| Well, the postings regarding Office update problems here
||| and elsewhere on the Internet appear not to be anomolous
||| for Microsoft's software. There are more than enough
||| postings of the same problem to warrant a better response
||| from Microsoft than what has been offered which hasn't
||| resulted in remedying the problem. There are a lot of
||| improvements Microsoft could and should make to their
||| updating mechanism, problem reporting (less cryptic to the
||| layperson/user), better tech support to the public, etc.;
||| isn't that what paying the big bugs for? Oops, I meant
||| bucks, not bugs, or was that a feature, not a bug. If it
||| was a bug, I will fix that in my next administrative
||| update, or service pack, or make you pay for it as
||| an "upgrade". My sarcasm is free.
|||
|||
|||| -----Original Message-----
|||| No. Actually, we have absolutely no problem with the install,
|||| which I understand is true for the vast majority of installations.
||||
|||| ||||| It looks like Microsoft has released a very flawed Office
||||| 2003 SP1 installer to the public. The problems with it
||||| being unsuccessful in updating Office 2003 are costing a
||||| lot of time/money and causing a lot of aggravation. Is
||||| that really any different to the effects of a
| Virus? I
||||| don't think it is any different. If someone were to do
||||| the same thing as Microsoft has done with SP1, and other
||||| bug-ridden software and updates, they would now be in the
||||| slammer serving big time. Is it any wonder people and
||||| businesses are abandoning Microsoft products for Linux
||||| (oops, I swore) and Microsoft Office alternatives? So,
||||| how about it Microsoft, give us some real solutions to the
||||| problems your hack(er) programmers have made for us.
|||||
||||| Anyone else think/feel the same?????
||||
||||
|||| .
||||
||
||
|| .


.

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

Lots = how many of the REGISTERED 300 million users?

Tell you what, you post the number of actual complaints from individual
users (not repeat posters) in these and other forums and then we will
compare numbers.

The actual story is that only the folks who are having problems (real
problems, I am not downplaying their pain) are an infinistesimal number
compared to the number of users who experience no problems.

The fact that you are reading a news group specifically designed to help
folks who are having problems ignores the *vast majority* of users who are
not having problems and have no reason to post.

Again, provide actual numbers of posters who have problems posted in these
groups. Then compare them against the LEGALLY installed base.

Then we can talk seriously - I do not conduct fact based conversations with
folks who insist on giving anecdotal information passed off as factual.

I am done unless you can post the ratio of problems to installed users. AND
the number of the folks who have had problems that have NOT been addressed
by Microsoft in these and other forums.

Hope to hear some factual information from you soon - otherwise, it has been
an interesting experience.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my personal
account will be deleted without reading.

After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:

| I am thinking logically. Accusing someone of not thinking
| logically is the fallacy of personal attack.
|
| Read another person's statement about the Office 2003 SP1
| problem at:
|
| http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/previewFrame.as
| p?
| ICP=Prod_Office&sLCID=US&sgroupURL=microsoft.public.officeu
| pdate&sMessageID=%
| (e-mail address removed)%253E
|
| There are lot's of posts about people experiencing Office
| SP1 installation problems, they are just the tip of
| the "iceberg". That's my rebuttal to your "silent
| majority" statement.
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
|| Okay - try thinking logically. How many people are going to seek
|| out a news group to post that their installation was flawless? Out
|| of 300 million REGISTERED Office users, how many have you seen
|| complain and no solution offered?
||
|| Real numbers please, not conjecture or opinion.
||
|| --
|| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||
|| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
|| the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my
|| personal account will be deleted without reading.
||
|| After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:
||
||| "The silent majority", I've heard/seen that somewhere
||| before from a politician. The silent majority statement
||| is a fallacy used to convince superficial thinkers that
||| the expressor's opinion is correct and has basis in fact,
||| which it doesn't. I could use the same silent majority
||| argument to support my contention too, that the silent
||| majority, who don't have an alternative to Microsoft's
||| software (try to buy a new Dell computer without a
||| Microsoft operating system), have had problems but they
||| know there is no point in complaining because Microsoft
||| won't/can't fix the problems. As well, if a computer is
||| purchased with Microsoft software, Microsoft declaims any
||| responibility and assigns it to the computer's
||| manufacturer who can't give adequate Microsoft product
||| support.
|||
|||
|||| -----Original Message-----
|||| Reporting of software problems is biased because, in most cases,
|||| there is a silent majority that had no problems.
||||
|||| In my case, I'm planning on doing a full system backup just before
|||| summoning the courage to install SP 1.
|||| --
|||| http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
|||| ||||| Well, the postings regarding Office update problems here
||||| and elsewhere on the Internet appear not to be anomolous
||||| for Microsoft's software. There are more than enough
||||| postings of the same problem to warrant a better response
||||| from Microsoft than what has been offered which hasn't
||||| resulted in remedying the problem. There are a lot of
||||| improvements Microsoft could and should make to their
||||| updating mechanism, problem reporting (less cryptic to the
||||| layperson/user), better tech support to the public, etc.;
||||| isn't that what paying the big bugs for? Oops, I meant
||||| bucks, not bugs, or was that a feature, not a bug.
| If it
||||| was a bug, I will fix that in my next administrative
||||| update, or service pack, or make you pay for it as
||||| an "upgrade". My sarcasm is free.
|||||
|||||
|||||| -----Original Message-----
|||||| No. Actually, we have absolutely no problem with the install,
|||||| which I understand is true for the vast majority of
|||||| installations.
||||||
|||||| ||||||| It looks like Microsoft has released a very flawed Office
||||||| 2003 SP1 installer to the public. The problems with it
||||||| being unsuccessful in updating Office 2003 are costing a
||||||| lot of time/money and causing a lot of aggravation. Is
||||||| that really any different to the effects of a Virus? I
||||||| don't think it is any different. If someone were to do
||||||| the same thing as Microsoft has done with SP1, and other
||||||| bug-ridden software and updates, they would now be in the
||||||| slammer serving big time. Is it any wonder people and
||||||| businesses are abandoning Microsoft products for Linux
||||||| (oops, I swore) and Microsoft Office alternatives? So,
||||||| how about it Microsoft, give us some real solutions to the
||||||| problems your hack(er) programmers have made for us.
|||||||
||||||| Anyone else think/feel the same?????
||||||
||||||
|||||| .
||||||
||||
||||
|||| .
||
||
|| .

 

[Yani]

Hey I'm having a similar issue and it's Office 2002/XP...

Makes me wonder if it's a problems that is coming from
Windows XP service packs.

There must be something that is common going on here.

My issue was the result of putting in a new HD and moving
files.

But all these treads point to this C:\windows\installer.

What the common thing to all of us?

Yani

 

[Yani]

Infact I bet the issue here is that the installer has
been updated when I installed Corel12 or something like
that.

I've even reinstalled Office 2000. But that totally
sucked. And it didn't like being upgraded either.

And to say no one is have much of a problem doesn't take
into account the 18 pages of posts in here since late May.

This is a place of despiration! It's the last place I
come to for help after the KB and ring a friend.

Yani.

 

[Golem]

If so many people are satisfied, why is Microsoft hated so
much???? No specific numbers are necessary, it is
generally known that Microsoft's software is very buggy.
Buggy service packs add insult to injury.

-----Original Message-----
Lots = how many of the REGISTERED 300 million users?

Tell you what, you post the number of actual complaints from individual
users (not repeat posters) in these and other forums and then we will
compare numbers.

The actual story is that only the folks who are having problems (real
problems, I am not downplaying their pain) are an infinistesimal number
compared to the number of users who experience no problems.

The fact that you are reading a news group specifically designed to help
folks who are having problems ignores the *vast majority* of users who are
not having problems and have no reason to post.

Again, provide actual numbers of posters who have problems posted in these
groups. Then compare them against the LEGALLY installed base.

Then we can talk seriously - I do not conduct fact based conversations with
folks who insist on giving anecdotal information passed off as factual.

I am done unless you can post the ratio of problems to installed users. AND
the number of the folks who have had problems that have NOT been addressed
by Microsoft in these and other forums.

Hope to hear some factual information from you soon - otherwise, it has been
an interesting experience.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my personal
account will be deleted without reading.

After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:

| I am thinking logically. Accusing someone of not thinking
| logically is the fallacy of personal attack.
|
| Read another person's statement about the Office 2003 SP1
| problem at:
|
| http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/previewFrame.as
| p?
| ICP=Prod_Office&sLCID=US&sgroupURL=microsoft.public.officeu
| pdate&sMessageID=%
| (e-mail address removed)%253E
|
| There are lot's of posts about people experiencing Office
| SP1 installation problems, they are just the tip of
| the "iceberg". That's my rebuttal to your "silent
| majority" statement.
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
|| Okay - try thinking logically. How many people are going to seek
|| out a news group to post that their installation was flawless? Out
|| of 300 million REGISTERED Office users, how many have you seen
|| complain and no solution offered?
||
|| Real numbers please, not conjecture or opinion.
||
|| --
|| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||
|| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
|| the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my
|| personal account will be deleted without reading.
||
|| After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:
||
||| "The silent majority", I've heard/seen that somewhere
||| before from a politician. The silent majority statement
||| is a fallacy used to convince superficial thinkers that
||| the expressor's opinion is correct and has basis in fact,
||| which it doesn't. I could use the same silent majority
||| argument to support my contention too, that the silent
||| majority, who don't have an alternative to Microsoft's
||| software (try to buy a new Dell computer without a
||| Microsoft operating system), have had problems but they
||| know there is no point in complaining because Microsoft
||| won't/can't fix the problems. As well, if a computer is
||| purchased with Microsoft software, Microsoft declaims any
||| responibility and assigns it to the computer's
||| manufacturer who can't give adequate Microsoft product
||| support.
|||
|||
|||| -----Original Message-----
|||| Reporting of software problems is biased because, in most cases,
|||| there is a silent majority that had no problems.
||||
|||| In my case, I'm planning on doing a full system backup just before
|||| summoning the courage to install SP 1.
|||| --
|||| http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
|||| ||||| Well, the postings regarding Office update problems here
||||| and elsewhere on the Internet appear not to be anomolous
||||| for Microsoft's software. There are more than enough
||||| postings of the same problem to warrant a better response
||||| from Microsoft than what has been offered which hasn't
||||| resulted in remedying the problem. There are a lot of
||||| improvements Microsoft could and should make to their
||||| updating mechanism, problem reporting (less cryptic to the
||||| layperson/user), better tech support to the public, etc.;
||||| isn't that what paying the big bugs for? Oops, I meant
||||| bucks, not bugs, or was that a feature, not a bug.
| If it
||||| was a bug, I will fix that in my next administrative
||||| update, or service pack, or make you pay for it as
||||| an "upgrade". My sarcasm is free.
|||||
|||||
|||||| -----Original Message-----
|||||| No. Actually, we have absolutely no problem with the install,
|||||| which I understand is true for the vast majority of
|||||| installations.
||||||
|||||| ||||||| It looks like Microsoft has released a very flawed Office
||||||| 2003 SP1 installer to the public. The problems with it
||||||| being unsuccessful in updating Office 2003 are costing a
||||||| lot of time/money and causing a lot of aggravation. Is
||||||| that really any different to the effects of a Virus? I
||||||| don't think it is any different. If someone were to do
||||||| the same thing as Microsoft has done with SP1, and other
||||||| bug-ridden software and updates, they would now be in the
||||||| slammer serving big time. Is it any wonder people and
||||||| businesses are abandoning Microsoft products for Linux
||||||| (oops, I swore) and Microsoft Office alternatives? So,
||||||| how about it Microsoft, give us some real solutions to the
||||||| problems your hack(er) programmers have made for us.
|||||||
||||||| Anyone else think/feel the same?????
||||||
||||||
|||||| .
||||||
||||
||||
|||| .
||
||
|| .


.

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

Microsoft is hated very much by a few people just because they hate
Microsoft. If you asked the majority of the computer owners, you will find
that attitudes towards Microsoft range from excellent to don't know who they
are, with an infinitesimal number of people who actually HATE Microsoft.

Try stepping outside of your world and put on the glasses of a disinterested
third person and then take another stab at it.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my personal
account will be deleted without reading.

After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:

| If so many people are satisfied, why is Microsoft hated so
| much???? No specific numbers are necessary, it is
| generally known that Microsoft's software is very buggy.
| Buggy service packs add insult to injury.
|
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
|| Lots = how many of the REGISTERED 300 million users?
||
|| Tell you what, you post the number of actual complaints from
|| individual users (not repeat posters) in these and other forums and
|| then we will compare numbers.
||
|| The actual story is that only the folks who are having problems (real
|| problems, I am not downplaying their pain) are an infinistesimal
|| number compared to the number of users who experience no problems.
||
|| The fact that you are reading a news group specifically designed to
|| help folks who are having problems ignores the *vast majority* of
|| users who are not having problems and have no reason to post.
||
|| Again, provide actual numbers of posters who have problems posted in
|| these groups. Then compare them against the LEGALLY installed base.
||
|| Then we can talk seriously - I do not conduct fact based
|| conversations with folks who insist on giving anecdotal information
|| passed off as factual.
||
|| I am done unless you can post the ratio of problems to installed
|| users. AND the number of the folks who have had problems that have
|| NOT been addressed by Microsoft in these and other forums.
||
|| Hope to hear some factual information from you soon - otherwise, it
|| has been an interesting experience.
||
||
|| --
|| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||
|| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
|| the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my
|| personal account will be deleted without reading.
||
|| After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:
||
||| I am thinking logically. Accusing someone of not thinking
||| logically is the fallacy of personal attack.
|||
||| Read another person's statement about the Office 2003 SP1
||| problem at:
|||
|||
| http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/previewFrame.as
||| p?
|||
| ICP=Prod_Office&sLCID=US&sgroupURL=microsoft.public.officeu
||| pdate&sMessageID=%
||| (e-mail address removed)%253E
|||
||| There are lot's of posts about people experiencing Office
||| SP1 installation problems, they are just the tip of
||| the "iceberg". That's my rebuttal to your "silent
||| majority" statement.
|||
|||
|||| -----Original Message-----
|||| Okay - try thinking logically. How many people are going to seek
|||| out a news group to post that their installation was flawless? Out
|||| of 300 million REGISTERED Office users, how many have you seen
|||| complain and no solution offered?
||||
|||| Real numbers please, not conjecture or opinion.
||||
|||| --
|||| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||||
|||| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due
|||| to the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my
|||| personal account will be deleted without reading.
||||
|||| After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem
|||| asked:
||||
||||| "The silent majority", I've heard/seen that somewhere
||||| before from a politician. The silent majority statement
||||| is a fallacy used to convince superficial thinkers that
||||| the expressor's opinion is correct and has basis in fact,
||||| which it doesn't. I could use the same silent majority
||||| argument to support my contention too, that the silent
||||| majority, who don't have an alternative to Microsoft's
||||| software (try to buy a new Dell computer without a
||||| Microsoft operating system), have had problems but they
||||| know there is no point in complaining because Microsoft
||||| won't/can't fix the problems. As well, if a computer is
||||| purchased with Microsoft software, Microsoft declaims any
||||| responibility and assigns it to the computer's
||||| manufacturer who can't give adequate Microsoft product
||||| support.
|||||
|||||
|||||| -----Original Message-----
|||||| Reporting of software problems is biased because, in most cases,
|||||| there is a silent majority that had no problems.
||||||
|||||| In my case, I'm planning on doing a full system backup just
|||||| before summoning the courage to install SP 1.
|||||| --
|||||| http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
|||||| ||||||| Well, the postings regarding Office update problems here
||||||| and elsewhere on the Internet appear not to be anomolous
||||||| for Microsoft's software. There are more than enough
||||||| postings of the same problem to warrant a better response
||||||| from Microsoft than what has been offered which hasn't
||||||| resulted in remedying the problem. There are a lot of
||||||| improvements Microsoft could and should make to their
||||||| updating mechanism, problem reporting (less cryptic to the
||||||| layperson/user), better tech support to the public, etc.;
||||||| isn't that what paying the big bugs for? Oops, I meant
||||||| bucks, not bugs, or was that a feature, not a bug. If it
||||||| was a bug, I will fix that in my next administrative
||||||| update, or service pack, or make you pay for it as
||||||| an "upgrade". My sarcasm is free.
|||||||
|||||||
|||||||| -----Original Message-----
|||||||| No. Actually, we have absolutely no problem with the install,
|||||||| which I understand is true for the vast majority of
|||||||| installations.
||||||||
|||||||| ||||||||| It looks like Microsoft has released a very flawed Office
||||||||| 2003 SP1 installer to the public. The problems with it
||||||||| being unsuccessful in updating Office 2003 are costing a
||||||||| lot of time/money and causing a lot of aggravation. Is
||||||||| that really any different to the effects of a Virus? I
||||||||| don't think it is any different. If someone were to do
||||||||| the same thing as Microsoft has done with SP1, and other
||||||||| bug-ridden software and updates, they would now be in the
||||||||| slammer serving big time. Is it any wonder people and
||||||||| businesses are abandoning Microsoft products for Linux
||||||||| (oops, I swore) and Microsoft Office alternatives? So,
||||||||| how about it Microsoft, give us some real solutions to the
||||||||| problems your hack(er) programmers have made for us.
|||||||||
||||||||| Anyone else think/feel the same?????
||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| .
||||||||
||||||
||||||
|||||| .
||||
||||
|||| .
||
||
|| .

 

[garfield-n-odie]

Hi, Golem. Microsoft is not forcing you to use its products. If you
think there other software suites or operating systems that work better
than Microsoft's, please buy them and use them. WordPerfect,
OpenOffice, Linux, and Macintosh are widely available alternatives.

If so many people are satisfied, why is Microsoft hated so
much???? No specific numbers are necessary, it is
generally known that Microsoft's software is very buggy.
Buggy service packs add insult to injury.

-----Original Message-----
Lots = how many of the REGISTERED 300 million users?

Tell you what, you post the number of actual complaints

from individual

users (not repeat posters) in these and other forums and

then we will

compare numbers.

The actual story is that only the folks who are having

problems (real

problems, I am not downplaying their pain) are an

infinistesimal number

compared to the number of users who experience no
problems.

The fact that you are reading a news group specifically

designed to help

folks who are having problems ignores the *vast majority*

of users who are

not having problems and have no reason to post.

Again, provide actual numbers of posters who have

problems posted in these

groups. Then compare them against the LEGALLY installed
base.

Then we can talk seriously - I do not conduct fact based

conversations with

folks who insist on giving anecdotal information passed

off as factual.

I am done unless you can post the ratio of problems to

installed users. AND

the number of the folks who have had problems that have

NOT been addressed

by Microsoft in these and other forums.

Hope to hear some factual information from you soon -

otherwise, it has been

an interesting experience.

intact. Due to

the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent

to my personal

account will be deleted without reading.

After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer,

Golem asked:

| I am thinking logically. Accusing someone of not
thinking

| logically is the fallacy of personal attack.
|
| Read another person's statement about the Office 2003
SP1

| problem at:
|
|
http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/previewFrame.as

| p?
|
ICP=Prod_Office&sLCID=US&sgroupURL=microsoft.public.officeu

| pdate&sMessageID=%
| (e-mail address removed)%253E
|
| There are lot's of posts about people experiencing
Office

| SP1 installation problems, they are just the tip of
| the "iceberg". That's my rebuttal to your "silent
| majority" statement.
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
|| Okay - try thinking logically. How many people are

going to seek

|| out a news group to post that their installation was

flawless? Out

|| of 300 million REGISTERED Office users, how many have

you seen

|| complain and no solution offered?
||
|| Real numbers please, not conjecture or opinion.
||
|| --
|| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||
|| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion

intact. Due to

|| the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail

sent to my

|| personal account will be deleted without reading.
||
|| After searching google.groups.com and finding no

answer, Golem asked:

||
||| "The silent majority", I've heard/seen that somewhere
||| before from a politician. The silent majority
statement

||| is a fallacy used to convince superficial thinkers
that

||| the expressor's opinion is correct and has basis in
fact,

||| which it doesn't. I could use the same silent
majority

||| argument to support my contention too, that the silent
||| majority, who don't have an alternative to Microsoft's
||| software (try to buy a new Dell computer without a
||| Microsoft operating system), have had problems but
they

||| know there is no point in complaining because
Microsoft

||| won't/can't fix the problems. As well, if a computer
is

||| purchased with Microsoft software, Microsoft declaims
any

||| responibility and assigns it to the computer's
||| manufacturer who can't give adequate Microsoft product
||| support.
|||
|||
|||| -----Original Message-----
|||| Reporting of software problems is biased because, in

most cases,

|||| there is a silent majority that had no problems.
||||
|||| In my case, I'm planning on doing a full system

backup just before

|||| summoning the courage to install SP 1.
|||| --
|||| http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web
site.

|||| "Golem" <[email protected]> wrote

in message

|||| ||||| Well, the postings regarding Office update problems
here

||||| and elsewhere on the Internet appear not to be
anomolous

||||| for Microsoft's software. There are more than
enough

||||| postings of the same problem to warrant a better
response

||||| from Microsoft than what has been offered which
hasn't

||||| resulted in remedying the problem. There are a lot
of

||||| improvements Microsoft could and should make to
their

||||| updating mechanism, problem reporting (less cryptic

to the

||||| layperson/user), better tech support to the public,
etc.;

||||| isn't that what paying the big bugs for? Oops, I
meant

||||| bucks, not bugs, or was that a feature, not a bug.
| If it
||||| was a bug, I will fix that in my next administrative
||||| update, or service pack, or make you pay for it as
||||| an "upgrade". My sarcasm is free.
|||||
|||||
|||||| -----Original Message-----
|||||| No. Actually, we have absolutely no problem with

the install,

|||||| which I understand is true for the vast majority of
|||||| installations.
||||||
|||||| "Golem" <[email protected]>

wrote in message

|||||| ||||||| It looks like Microsoft has released a very

flawed Office

||||||| 2003 SP1 installer to the public. The problems

with it

||||||| being unsuccessful in updating Office 2003 are

costing a

||||||| lot of time/money and causing a lot of

aggravation. Is

||||||| that really any different to the effects of a

Virus? I

||||||| don't think it is any different. If someone were

to do

||||||| the same thing as Microsoft has done with SP1,

and other

||||||| bug-ridden software and updates, they would now

be in the

||||||| slammer serving big time. Is it any wonder

people and

||||||| businesses are abandoning Microsoft products for
Linux

||||||| (oops, I swore) and Microsoft Office

alternatives? So,

||||||| how about it Microsoft, give us some real

solutions to the

||||||| problems your hack(er) programmers have made for
us.

|||||||
||||||| Anyone else think/feel the same?????
||||||
||||||
|||||| .
||||||
||||
||||
|||| .
||
||
|| .


.

 

[cvictoria]

I think there's some truth to what you say. Microsoft is
the biggest target in the computer industry, so it gets
the most complaints. And there are likely lots of
content computer users out there.

However, Microsoft is just one of the most egregious
examples of a serious problem with the
technology/software/hardware industry. Specific to
Microsoft operating systems and Office suites, what other
consumer product is released with dozens, if not
hundreds, of known defects? Again, MS is not the only
offender on this front, but they command 95%+ of the
market, so even if serious problems are reported in only
a small fraction of users, that's a lot of unhappy
customers!

And computer hardware is notoriously unreliable, too.
For example, according to Consumer Reports (Sept 2004),
serious defects in desktop computers were reported in 15
to almost 35% of units among a sample of 48,000 computers
purchased between 1999 and 2003 (age was taken into
account). Again scaling up these numbers means that
there are lots of broken machines out there.

When automobiles, washing machines, child seats, or other
consumer products have such failure rates, they are
usually subject to recalls! And yet, consumers just put
up with it! They generally don't complain, as you
stated. However, I don't think it's necessarily because
they don't have problems. I think that most people blame
themselves for there problems, rather than defective
products. Only people who have some tech savvy even know
to question the products!

Again, I partially agree with you, Milly. Many folks are
likely content with there computer situations. But I
suspect that your "silent majority" has more unhappy
people in it that you might think!

Regards,

C. Victoria

-----Original Message-----
Microsoft is hated very much by a few people just because they hate
Microsoft. If you asked the majority of the computer owners, you will find
that attitudes towards Microsoft range from excellent to don't know who they
are, with an infinitesimal number of people who actually HATE Microsoft.

Try stepping outside of your world and put on the glasses of a disinterested
third person and then take another stab at it.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my personal
account will be deleted without reading.

After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:

| If so many people are satisfied, why is Microsoft hated so
| much???? No specific numbers are necessary, it is
| generally known that Microsoft's software is very buggy.
| Buggy service packs add insult to injury.
|
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
|| Lots = how many of the REGISTERED 300 million users?
||
|| Tell you what, you post the number of actual complaints from
|| individual users (not repeat posters) in these and other forums and
|| then we will compare numbers.
||
|| The actual story is that only the folks who are having problems (real
|| problems, I am not downplaying their pain) are an infinistesimal
|| number compared to the number of users who experience no problems.
||
|| The fact that you are reading a news group specifically designed to
|| help folks who are having problems ignores the *vast majority* of
|| users who are not having problems and have no reason to post.
||
|| Again, provide actual numbers of posters who have problems posted in
|| these groups. Then compare them against the LEGALLY installed base.
||
|| Then we can talk seriously - I do not conduct fact based
|| conversations with folks who insist on giving anecdotal information
|| passed off as factual.
||
|| I am done unless you can post the ratio of problems to installed
|| users. AND the number of the folks who have had problems that have
|| NOT been addressed by Microsoft in these and other forums.
||
|| Hope to hear some factual information from you soon - otherwise, it
|| has been an interesting experience.
||
||
|| --
|| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||
|| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
|| the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my
|| personal account will be deleted without reading.
||
|| After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:
||
||| I am thinking logically. Accusing someone of not thinking
||| logically is the fallacy of personal attack.
|||
||| Read another person's statement about the Office 2003 SP1
||| problem at:
|||
|||
| http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/previewFrame.a
s
||| p?
|||
| ICP=Prod_Office&sLCID=US&sgroupURL=microsoft.public.office
u
||| pdate&sMessageID=%
||| (e-mail address removed)%253E
|||
||| There are lot's of posts about people experiencing Office
||| SP1 installation problems, they are just the tip of
||| the "iceberg". That's my rebuttal to your "silent
||| majority" statement.
|||
|||
|||| -----Original Message-----
|||| Okay - try thinking logically. How many people are going to seek
|||| out a news group to post that their installation was flawless? Out
|||| of 300 million REGISTERED Office users, how many have you seen
|||| complain and no solution offered?
||||
|||| Real numbers please, not conjecture or opinion.
||||
|||| --
|||| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||||
|||| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due
|||| to the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my
|||| personal account will be deleted without reading.
||||
|||| After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem
|||| asked:
||||
||||| "The silent majority", I've heard/seen that somewhere
||||| before from a politician. The silent majority statement
||||| is a fallacy used to convince superficial thinkers that
||||| the expressor's opinion is correct and has basis in fact,
||||| which it doesn't. I could use the same silent majority
||||| argument to support my contention too, that the silent
||||| majority, who don't have an alternative to Microsoft's
||||| software (try to buy a new Dell computer without a
||||| Microsoft operating system), have had problems but they
||||| know there is no point in complaining because Microsoft
||||| won't/can't fix the problems. As well, if a computer is
||||| purchased with Microsoft software, Microsoft declaims any
||||| responibility and assigns it to the computer's
||||| manufacturer who can't give adequate Microsoft product
||||| support.
|||||
|||||
|||||| -----Original Message-----
|||||| Reporting of software problems is biased because, in most cases,
|||||| there is a silent majority that had no problems.
||||||
|||||| In my case, I'm planning on doing a full system backup just
|||||| before summoning the courage to install SP 1.
|||||| --
|||||| http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
|||||| ||||||| Well, the postings regarding Office update problems here
||||||| and elsewhere on the Internet appear not to be anomolous
||||||| for Microsoft's software. There are more than enough
||||||| postings of the same problem to warrant a better response
||||||| from Microsoft than what has been offered which hasn't
||||||| resulted in remedying the problem. There are a lot of
||||||| improvements Microsoft could and should make to their
||||||| updating mechanism, problem reporting (less cryptic to the
||||||| layperson/user), better tech support to the public, etc.;
||||||| isn't that what paying the big bugs for? Oops, I meant
||||||| bucks, not bugs, or was that a feature, not a bug. If it
||||||| was a bug, I will fix that in my next administrative
||||||| update, or service pack, or make you pay for it as
||||||| an "upgrade". My sarcasm is free.
|||||||
|||||||
|||||||| -----Original Message-----
|||||||| No. Actually, we have absolutely no problem with the install,
|||||||| which I understand is true for the vast majority of
|||||||| installations.
||||||||
|||||||| ||||||||| It looks like Microsoft has released a very flawed Office
||||||||| 2003 SP1 installer to the public. The problems with it
||||||||| being unsuccessful in updating Office 2003 are costing a
||||||||| lot of time/money and causing a lot of aggravation. Is
||||||||| that really any different to the effects of a Virus? I
||||||||| don't think it is any different. If someone were to do
||||||||| the same thing as Microsoft has done with SP1, and other
||||||||| bug-ridden software and updates, they would now be in the
||||||||| slammer serving big time. Is it any wonder people and
||||||||| businesses are abandoning Microsoft products for Linux
||||||||| (oops, I swore) and Microsoft Office alternatives? So,
||||||||| how about it Microsoft, give us some real solutions to the
||||||||| problems your hack(er) programmers have made for us.
|||||||||
||||||||| Anyone else think/feel the same?????
||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| .
||||||||
||||||
||||||
|||||| .
||||
||||
|||| .
||
||
|| .


.

 

[Golem]

I am willing to try using another vendor's Office-like
software suite except that my employer, a large post-
secondary educational institution, has standardized its
faculty computers to run Microsoft operating systems and
application software such as Windows XP and Office. We
are not "allowed" to use anythng else and nothing else
will be supported if used. They have also standardized on
Dell brand computers which only come with Windows XP. As
well, I have been told that unauthorized software
installation may result in the computer being reclaimed
and the offending software removed by IT Services. There
are a few reasons for these policies: 1) Microsoft
products are a defacto standard; 2) Dell products are not
available without a Windows operating system; 3) For
obvious reasons, Microsoft products usually run better on
Microsoft's operating systems; 4) The IT department wants
to streamline its services and reduce its costs by
limiting what they will support.

I do not think that Microsoft is the Evil Empire or that
Bill Gates is the world's greatest megalomaniac, I do
think that Microsoft can provide much better products and
customer service. Microsoft doesn't have any valid
reasons not to provide better products and services, it
definitely has the financial resources to devote to them.
Many people are upset with Microsoft because it could and
should do better but it doesn't/won't which, consequently,
people perceive as corporate arrogance.

-----Original Message-----
Hi, Golem. Microsoft is not forcing you to use its products. If you
think there other software suites or operating systems that work better
than Microsoft's, please buy them and use them. WordPerfect,
OpenOffice, Linux, and Macintosh are widely available alternatives.

If so many people are satisfied, why is Microsoft hated so
much???? No specific numbers are necessary, it is
generally known that Microsoft's software is very buggy.
Buggy service packs add insult to injury.

-----Original Message-----
Lots = how many of the REGISTERED 300 million users?

Tell you what, you post the number of actual complaints

from individual

users (not repeat posters) in these and other forums

and

then we will

compare numbers.

The actual story is that only the folks who are having

problems (real

problems, I am not downplaying their pain) are an

infinistesimal number

compared to the number of users who experience no
problems.

The fact that you are reading a news group specifically

designed to help

folks who are having problems ignores the *vast

majority*

of users who are

not having problems and have no reason to post.

Again, provide actual numbers of posters who have

problems posted in these

groups. Then compare them against the LEGALLY

installed

base.

Then we can talk seriously - I do not conduct fact

based

conversations with

folks who insist on giving anecdotal information passed

off as factual.

I am done unless you can post the ratio of problems to

installed users. AND

the number of the folks who have had problems that have

NOT been addressed

by Microsoft in these and other forums.

Hope to hear some factual information from you soon -

otherwise, it has been

an interesting experience.

intact. Due to

the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail

sent

to my personal

account will be deleted without reading.

After searching google.groups.com and finding no

answer,

Golem asked:

| I am thinking logically. Accusing someone of not
thinking

| logically is the fallacy of personal attack.
|
| Read another person's statement about the Office 2003
SP1

| problem at:
|
|

http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/previewFrame.as

| p?
|

ICP=Prod_Office&sLCID=US&sgroupURL=microsoft.public.officeu

| pdate&sMessageID=%
| (e-mail address removed)%253E
|
| There are lot's of posts about people experiencing
Office

| SP1 installation problems, they are just the tip of
| the "iceberg". That's my rebuttal to your "silent
| majority" statement.
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
|| Okay - try thinking logically. How many people are

going to seek

|| out a news group to post that their installation was

flawless? Out

|| of 300 million REGISTERED Office users, how many

have

you seen

|| complain and no solution offered?
||
|| Real numbers please, not conjecture or opinion.
||
|| --
|| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||
|| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion

intact. Due to

|| the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail

sent to my

|| personal account will be deleted without reading.
||
|| After searching google.groups.com and finding no

answer, Golem asked:

||
||| "The silent majority", I've heard/seen that somewhere
||| before from a politician. The silent majority
statement

||| is a fallacy used to convince superficial thinkers
that

||| the expressor's opinion is correct and has basis in
fact,

||| which it doesn't. I could use the same silent
majority

||| argument to support my contention too, that the silent
||| majority, who don't have an alternative to Microsoft's
||| software (try to buy a new Dell computer without a
||| Microsoft operating system), have had problems but
they

||| know there is no point in complaining because
Microsoft

||| won't/can't fix the problems. As well, if a

computer

is

||| purchased with Microsoft software, Microsoft

declaims

any

||| responibility and assigns it to the computer's
||| manufacturer who can't give adequate Microsoft product
||| support.
|||
|||
|||| -----Original Message-----
|||| Reporting of software problems is biased because,

in

most cases,

|||| there is a silent majority that had no problems.
||||
|||| In my case, I'm planning on doing a full system

backup just before

|||| summoning the courage to install SP 1.
|||| --
|||| http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web
site.

|||| "Golem" <[email protected]>

wrote

in message

|||| ||||| Well, the postings regarding Office update

problems

here

||||| and elsewhere on the Internet appear not to be
anomolous

||||| for Microsoft's software. There are more than
enough

||||| postings of the same problem to warrant a better
response

||||| from Microsoft than what has been offered which
hasn't

||||| resulted in remedying the problem. There are a

lot

of

||||| improvements Microsoft could and should make to
their

||||| updating mechanism, problem reporting (less

cryptic

to the

||||| layperson/user), better tech support to the

public,

etc.;

||||| isn't that what paying the big bugs for? Oops, I
meant

||||| bucks, not bugs, or was that a feature, not a bug.
| If it
||||| was a bug, I will fix that in my next administrative
||||| update, or service pack, or make you pay for it as
||||| an "upgrade". My sarcasm is free.
|||||
|||||
|||||| -----Original Message-----
|||||| No. Actually, we have absolutely no problem with

the install,

|||||| which I understand is true for the vast majority of
|||||| installations.
||||||
|||||| "Golem" <[email protected]>

wrote in message

|||||| ||||||| It looks like Microsoft has released a very

flawed Office

||||||| 2003 SP1 installer to the public. The problems

with it

||||||| being unsuccessful in updating Office 2003 are

costing a

||||||| lot of time/money and causing a lot of

aggravation. Is

||||||| that really any different to the effects of a

Virus? I

||||||| don't think it is any different. If someone

were

to do

||||||| the same thing as Microsoft has done with SP1,

and other

||||||| bug-ridden software and updates, they would now

be in the

||||||| slammer serving big time. Is it any wonder

people and

||||||| businesses are abandoning Microsoft products

for

Linux

||||||| (oops, I swore) and Microsoft Office

alternatives? So,

||||||| how about it Microsoft, give us some real

solutions to the

||||||| problems your hack(er) programmers have made

for

us.

|||||||
||||||| Anyone else think/feel the same?????
||||||
||||||
|||||| .
||||||
||||
||||
|||| .
||
||
|| .


.

.

 

[Guest]

There are relatively few complaints about Office 2003 and
its updates because most Office XP users
haven't "upgraded" to Office 2003. Of those who are using
Office 2003, there are many who don't even know that they
have an Office 2003 update problem because they haven't
tried to update their Office 2003 installation. That's
why there aren't more complaints from Office 2003 users.

Regardless of the above, or anything else, the question
is: Why doesn't the Office 3003 SP1 update installation
work? I still haven't received a solution from Microsoft,
just a lot of excuses and criticism mainly from one
Microsoft advocate. When it comes down to it, I don't
care about the rhetoric, I want a solution. Where is
it????

-----Original Message-----
I think there's some truth to what you say. Microsoft is
the biggest target in the computer industry, so it gets
the most complaints. And there are likely lots of
content computer users out there.

However, Microsoft is just one of the most egregious
examples of a serious problem with the
technology/software/hardware industry. Specific to
Microsoft operating systems and Office suites, what other
consumer product is released with dozens, if not
hundreds, of known defects? Again, MS is not the only
offender on this front, but they command 95%+ of the
market, so even if serious problems are reported in only
a small fraction of users, that's a lot of unhappy
customers!

And computer hardware is notoriously unreliable, too.
For example, according to Consumer Reports (Sept 2004),
serious defects in desktop computers were reported in 15
to almost 35% of units among a sample of 48,000 computers
purchased between 1999 and 2003 (age was taken into
account). Again scaling up these numbers means that
there are lots of broken machines out there.

When automobiles, washing machines, child seats, or other
consumer products have such failure rates, they are
usually subject to recalls! And yet, consumers just put
up with it! They generally don't complain, as you
stated. However, I don't think it's necessarily because
they don't have problems. I think that most people blame
themselves for there problems, rather than defective
products. Only people who have some tech savvy even know
to question the products!

Again, I partially agree with you, Milly. Many folks are
likely content with there computer situations. But I
suspect that your "silent majority" has more unhappy
people in it that you might think!

Regards,

C. Victoria

-----Original Message-----
Microsoft is hated very much by a few people just because they hate
Microsoft. If you asked the majority of the computer owners, you will find
that attitudes towards Microsoft range from excellent to don't know who they
are, with an infinitesimal number of people who actually HATE Microsoft.

Try stepping outside of your world and put on the glasses of a disinterested
third person and then take another stab at it.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my personal
account will be deleted without reading.

After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:

| If so many people are satisfied, why is Microsoft hated so
| much???? No specific numbers are necessary, it is
| generally known that Microsoft's software is very buggy.
| Buggy service packs add insult to injury.
|
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
|| Lots = how many of the REGISTERED 300 million users?
||
|| Tell you what, you post the number of actual complaints from
|| individual users (not repeat posters) in these and other forums and
|| then we will compare numbers.
||
|| The actual story is that only the folks who are having problems (real
|| problems, I am not downplaying their pain) are an infinistesimal
|| number compared to the number of users who experience no problems.
||
|| The fact that you are reading a news group specifically designed to
|| help folks who are having problems ignores the *vast majority* of
|| users who are not having problems and have no reason to post.
||
|| Again, provide actual numbers of posters who have problems posted in
|| these groups. Then compare them against the LEGALLY installed base.
||
|| Then we can talk seriously - I do not conduct fact based
|| conversations with folks who insist on giving anecdotal information
|| passed off as factual.
||
|| I am done unless you can post the ratio of problems to installed
|| users. AND the number of the folks who have had problems that have
|| NOT been addressed by Microsoft in these and other forums.
||
|| Hope to hear some factual information from you soon - otherwise, it
|| has been an interesting experience.
||
||
|| --
|| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||
|| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
|| the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my
|| personal account will be deleted without reading.
||
|| After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem asked:
||
||| I am thinking logically. Accusing someone of not thinking
||| logically is the fallacy of personal attack.
|||
||| Read another person's statement about the Office 2003 SP1
||| problem at:
|||
|||
| http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/previewFrame.a
s
||| p?
|||
| ICP=Prod_Office&sLCID=US&sgroupURL=microsoft.public.office
u
||| pdate&sMessageID=%
||| (e-mail address removed)%253E
|||
||| There are lot's of posts about people experiencing Office
||| SP1 installation problems, they are just the tip of
||| the "iceberg". That's my rebuttal to your "silent
||| majority" statement.
|||
|||
|||| -----Original Message-----
|||| Okay - try thinking logically. How many people are going to seek
|||| out a news group to post that their installation was flawless? Out
|||| of 300 million REGISTERED Office users, how many have you seen
|||| complain and no solution offered?
||||
|||| Real numbers please, not conjecture or opinion.
||||
|||| --
|||| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||||
|||| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due
|||| to the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my
|||| personal account will be deleted without reading.
||||
|||| After searching google.groups.com and finding no answer, Golem
|||| asked:
||||
||||| "The silent majority", I've heard/seen that somewhere
||||| before from a politician. The silent majority statement
||||| is a fallacy used to convince superficial thinkers that
||||| the expressor's opinion is correct and has basis in fact,
||||| which it doesn't. I could use the same silent majority
||||| argument to support my contention too, that the silent
||||| majority, who don't have an alternative to Microsoft's
||||| software (try to buy a new Dell computer without a
||||| Microsoft operating system), have had problems but they
||||| know there is no point in complaining because Microsoft
||||| won't/can't fix the problems. As well, if a computer is
||||| purchased with Microsoft software, Microsoft declaims any
||||| responibility and assigns it to the computer's
||||| manufacturer who can't give adequate Microsoft product
||||| support.
|||||
|||||
|||||| -----Original Message-----
|||||| Reporting of software problems is biased because, in most cases,
|||||| there is a silent majority that had no problems.
||||||
|||||| In my case, I'm planning on doing a full system backup just
|||||| before summoning the courage to install SP 1.
|||||| --
|||||| http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
|||||| ||||||| Well, the postings regarding Office update problems here
||||||| and elsewhere on the Internet appear not to be anomolous
||||||| for Microsoft's software. There are more than enough
||||||| postings of the same problem to warrant a better response
||||||| from Microsoft than what has been offered which hasn't
||||||| resulted in remedying the problem. There are a lot of
||||||| improvements Microsoft could and should make to their
||||||| updating mechanism, problem reporting (less cryptic to the
||||||| layperson/user), better tech support to the public, etc.;
||||||| isn't that what paying the big bugs for? Oops, I meant
||||||| bucks, not bugs, or was that a feature, not a bug. If it
||||||| was a bug, I will fix that in my next administrative
||||||| update, or service pack, or make you pay for it as
||||||| an "upgrade". My sarcasm is free.
|||||||
|||||||
|||||||| -----Original Message-----
|||||||| No. Actually, we have absolutely no problem with the install,
|||||||| which I understand is true for the vast majority of
|||||||| installations.
||||||||
|||||||| ||||||||| It looks like Microsoft has released a very flawed Office
||||||||| 2003 SP1 installer to the public. The problems with it
||||||||| being unsuccessful in updating Office 2003 are costing a
||||||||| lot of time/money and causing a lot of aggravation. Is
||||||||| that really any different to the effects of a Virus? I
||||||||| don't think it is any different. If someone were to do
||||||||| the same thing as Microsoft has done with SP1, and other
||||||||| bug-ridden software and updates, they would now be in the
||||||||| slammer serving big time. Is it any wonder people and
||||||||| businesses are abandoning Microsoft products for Linux
||||||||| (oops, I swore) and Microsoft Office alternatives? So,
||||||||| how about it Microsoft, give us some real solutions to the
||||||||| problems your hack(er) programmers have made for us.
|||||||||
||||||||| Anyone else think/feel the same?????
||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| .
||||||||
||||||
||||||
|||||| .
||||
||||
|||| .
||
||
|| .


.

.

 

[Guest]

In 1961, virtually no one had a "personal" computer,
computers were large mainframes owned by government,
publicly funded organizations, and business. When the
first "personal" computers became available, they were
very primitive and anyone who had one was grateful if it
actually worked at all such as the Altair's panel lights
blinking (Pong did more). Then, the press was full of
wonderment and praise for the computer
industry "geniuses". After the initial euphoria, when the
computer "geniuses" began marketing their very expensive
primitive "personal" computers to the public, people began
asking the obvious questions about what useful purposes
the "personal" computer could perform. Because of the
promises made by the "personal" computer marketers, that
the "personal" computer would make work more efficient and
easier, consequently improving productivity, and
potentially eliminate the need for paper (the paperless
office), the increasing numbers of ownersof "personal"
computers, especially businesses, had practical
expectations of the hardware and software.
Initially, "personal" computer owners were patient with
hardware and software problems because they thought of
themselves as participants at the leading edge of a new
technology. Now, the "personal" computer is virtually
ubiquitous and people are no longer willing to accept the
technological flaws of the past. Microsoft needs to
acknowledge that its dominant position is not gauranteed
and that if it continues to distribute seriously flawed
products, including faulty bugfixes and service packs and
installers, its customers will abandon it in favour of
other operating systems and application software which
cost far less and may have fewer problems. As well,
courts are increasingly ruling in favor of litigants
against manufacturers of faulty products, including
software manufacturers, in spite of EULAs which state that
the product is only licensed and isn't gauranteed to be
able to do anything ( A major reason for this occurring is
because of Microsoft's business methods.). Unfortunately,
so far, Microsoft isn't paying serious attention to
customers' complaints but, if the people who are
experiencing problems with Microsoft products were willing
to sue in small claims court for damages, the large/huge
cumulative financial award costs might cause Microsoft to
improve its products and services to at least an
acceptable level.

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

I love it when people make broad statements like "faulty products" "service
packs and bug fixes that don't work", etc.

The products work fine on my various machines, and service packs and bug
fixes all work as well. I would be more careful in the future to not assume
that everyone is having your level of problems. Most (yes, the vast
majority) are not having a problem but you will never see it or believe it
since you only see people with problems posting to these forums.

This discussion will never resolve the basic differences between you and at
least me - you see Microsoft as out to intentionally harm the consumer with
bringing out faulty software products and bug fixes. I see them as a
company trying to make it easy for everyone with a computer to use it to its
fullest potential which includes having people install it on unsupported
platforms, install drivers that have not been signed, etc. When something
doesn't work on their computer, it is mighty easy to blame Microsoft. I, on
the other hand, try to help people who do have problems and come here
without a huge chip on their shoulder to solve what problems have arisen.

Thank you, please drive through.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to
the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to my personal
account will be deleted without reading.


After scratching one's head,
(e-mail address removed) <[email protected]>
asked this group:
| In 1961, virtually no one had a "personal" computer,
| computers were large mainframes owned by government,
| publicly funded organizations, and business. When the
| first "personal" computers became available, they were
| very primitive and anyone who had one was grateful if it
| actually worked at all such as the Altair's panel lights
| blinking (Pong did more). Then, the press was full of
| wonderment and praise for the computer
| industry "geniuses". After the initial euphoria, when the
| computer "geniuses" began marketing their very expensive
| primitive "personal" computers to the public, people began
| asking the obvious questions about what useful purposes
| the "personal" computer could perform. Because of the
| promises made by the "personal" computer marketers, that
| the "personal" computer would make work more efficient and
| easier, consequently improving productivity, and
| potentially eliminate the need for paper (the paperless
| office), the increasing numbers of ownersof "personal"
| computers, especially businesses, had practical
| expectations of the hardware and software.
| Initially, "personal" computer owners were patient with
| hardware and software problems because they thought of
| themselves as participants at the leading edge of a new
| technology. Now, the "personal" computer is virtually
| ubiquitous and people are no longer willing to accept the
| technological flaws of the past. Microsoft needs to
| acknowledge that its dominant position is not gauranteed
| and that if it continues to distribute seriously flawed
| products, including faulty bugfixes and service packs and
| installers, its customers will abandon it in favour of
| other operating systems and application software which
| cost far less and may have fewer problems. As well,
| courts are increasingly ruling in favor of litigants
| against manufacturers of faulty products, including
| software manufacturers, in spite of EULAs which state that
| the product is only licensed and isn't gauranteed to be
| able to do anything ( A major reason for this occurring is
| because of Microsoft's business methods.). Unfortunately,
| so far, Microsoft isn't paying serious attention to
| customers' complaints but, if the people who are
| experiencing problems with Microsoft products were willing
| to sue in small claims court for damages, the large/huge
| cumulative financial award costs might cause Microsoft to
| improve its products and services to at least an
| acceptable level.
|
|
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
|| (e-mail address removed) wrote:
|| <snip>
||| Regardless of the above, or anything else, the question
||| is: Why doesn't the Office 3003 SP1 update installation
||| work?
|| <snip>
||
|| Are you saying that it does not work or that it does not work for
|| you? All upgrades I've ever seen cause problems for some people and
|| I've been playing with computers since 1961.
|| There is nothing that can be done about this unless you are willing
|| to buy a standard controlled machine with all the same parts and all
|| the same programs installed at the same time. Apple tried this and
|| they had problems.
||
|| What *has* happened over the years since DOS 2.0 upgraded DOS 1.0 is
|| that the percentage of problems has decreased. Upgrades in the early
|| days gave the industry press weeks of articles about problems,
|| then it was days and now a new release rarely causes a stir.
||
||
|| .

 

[Mike Painter]

I
As for the rest, it is a long ignorant rant which does not answer my
question.
Microsoft spends billions on developing and maintaining software that works
for the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time.
Do you have anything but your own personal opinion and anechdotal evidence
to support your alligations?

*My* anechdotal evidence is that the press reports fewer problems each
upgrade and that people who can't write assembly language can install
software now.

In 1961, virtually no one had a "personal" computer,
computers were large mainframes owned by government,
publicly funded organizations, and business.

had an IBM 1620 that I could use by and for myself on a regular basis in
1961.
It is true that few people had or would have wanted such an option.

courts are increasingly ruling in favor of litigants
against manufacturers of faulty products, including
software manufacturers, in spite of EULAs which state that
the product is only licensed and isn't gauranteed to be
able to do anything ( A major reason for this occurring is
because of Microsoft's business methods.). Unfortunately,
so far, Microsoft isn't paying serious attention to
customers' complaints but, if the people who are
experiencing problems with Microsoft products were willing
to sue in small claims court for damages, the large/huge
cumulative financial award costs might cause Microsoft to
improve its products and services to at least an
acceptable level.

If there was a significent problem the guys who have the big Lear Jets would
be lining people up to testify and to make some real money. Since you seem
to think that small claims courts would have a big impact on MSFT's bottom
line I'll point out that class actions are *big* business now and the firms
that specialize in them do indeed have big jets.