Wonder if SP2 will do anything for sync services

[Kerry]

So I see SP2 is being released today at 1 pm. I wonder if it will do
anything to improve the sync services performance. The two articles I
read on this at MacWorld and CNET say nothing about Entourage. The
Macworld article is quite extensive and talks about all the modules
except sync services. If this were fixed or somewhat fixed I'd move
back to Entourage.

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

So I see SP2 is being released today at 1 pm. I wonder if it will do
anything to improve the sync services performance. The two articles I
read on this at MacWorld and CNET say nothing about Entourage. The
Macworld article is quite extensive and talks about all the modules
except sync services. If this were fixed or somewhat fixed I'd move
back to Entourage.

We still don;t know whether the SyncService issue is something MS needs
to address, or Apple. Other companies have vocally complained about
SyncServices as well :-\

Corentin

 

[Kerry]

We still don;t know whether the SyncService issue is something MS needs
to address, or Apple. Other companies have vocally complained about
SyncServices as well :-\

Corentin

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Yes, I know Corentin. I found when I switched to Contactizer Pro from
Entourage they too have had a lot of problems with sync services and
clearly state that Apple's sync services is flaky/unstable. However,
I've had next to no problem with their problem relative to Entourage.
They though are abandoning sync services and will address iCal
directly in their v3.9 and then let iCal talk to sync services. If
there's a problem they'll just refer people to Apple as they're tired
of dealing with the mess.

The only reason I ask if Microsoft might have done something is
Objective-Decisions has decided on a way around sync services why
can't Microsoft. Although I quite like Contactizer Pro I still prefer
Entourage and would like to return to it but never will until the sync
services issue is addressed.

I have submitted feedback to Apple on this and talked to them to
explain the impact this is having on users. They know I spend a lot of
money on Apple products but that things like this are making me
question whether to stick with Apple as it really has not been such a
fun environment for at least the last year and a half. I used to get
frustrated with Windows and all the processing that was required
around virus' etc but I don't recall ever being so frustrated as I
have been with my Mac and I've wasted more hours on the Mac and its
operation than I ever spent in Windows. Primarily, it was Entourage
that really messed things up for me with the Mac. Plus, with the delay
in Quicken till Feb 2010 of native Intel product, I am looking at
alternatives which is the last thing I want to do. However, with Snow
Leopard I don't want to install Rosetta for this one app Quicken
2006.

I'll see. I've resolved my Entourage problem though by using
Contactizer Pro. I've used Quicken for almost 20 years and hate to
change but it looks like that will be the case (maybe). These are
really my two most critical apps as although I use Word Processing
extensively I really don't care if its Pages, Word or whatever as
they're all the same to me.

The one thing I can say about Objective Decisions over Microsoft and
Entourage is they discuss this whole issue with sync services and the
problems extensively (their product manager etc) and have specified a
roadmap out of this and the reasons for this while Microsoft really
doesn't explain anything other than it doesn't work. So I do like
companies that have a clear roadmap and they sure have spent a lot of
energy trying to make Contactizer Pro work well with sync services.
I've told them I really haven't encountered problems and the product
manager just says you're lucky but one day you will even with CP so
they are out of it.

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

They though are abandoning sync services and will address iCal
directly in their v3.9 and then let iCal talk to sync services. If
there's a problem they'll just refer people to Apple as they're tired
of dealing with the mess.

That might be a wise move :->

The only reason I ask if Microsoft might have done something is
Objective-Decisions has decided on a way around sync services why
can't Microsoft.

I suspect that you can access iCal stores directly, but the same is not
true for the contact database. Not sure MS could entirely live without
the sync services anyway.

Corentin

 

[Kerry]

That might be a wise move :->


I suspect that you can access iCal stores directly, but the same is not
true for the contact database. Not sure MS could entirely live without
the sync services anyway.

Corentin
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Contactizer Pro is only going to access iCal directly as that's what's
causing the bulk of the sync services problems. I've read nothing that
their changing the way they work with Contacts. Contacts and calendar
items in CP use Apple's database. They don't have their own unlike
Microsoft's Entourage which has it own, proprietary database. Anyway,
they are intent of not addressing sync services so they can send
people to Apple if there's a problem. Their view is Apple has far more
resources to deal what they and I refer to as a mess.

 

[Diane Ross]

So I see SP2 is being released today at 1 pm. I wonder if it will do
anything to improve the sync services performance.

There was no mention of Sync Services as an improvement. Sorry!

 

[Kerry]

There was no mention of Sync Services as an improvement. Sorry!

You're right Diane. I got a chance to review the release notes and
unfortunately there's no mention of anything regarding sync services.
Too bad. I like Contactizer Pro but prefer Entourage however, I just
won't return until this is fixed - by Apple or Microsoft or... The one
thing that is nice with Contactizer Pro (there's a number of nice
things about this app) is that categories in Contactizer map, if you
so choose, directly to iCal Calendars, colour and all. So even if you
wanted to leave Contactizer and use iCal the calendars are all
categorized so to speak. Categories in Entourage are nice but since
everything from Entourage maps to iCal as Entourage and in reverse
nothing is categorized in Entourage, I spent a lot of time
categorizing my items once they ended up in Entourage. This
expenditure of time isn't necessary in Contactizer. Also, in
Contactizer you can have multiple categories you just need to specify
a prime for the sake of iCal as it only handles one.

Probably with time, my desire to return to Entourage might diminish
the more I use Contactizer Pro. It is a powerful app but so too is
Entourage. With CP though I there are no corrupt database issues to
deal with and I haven't had sync problems although I know others have
and that's why Objective-Decisions is abandoning sync services in iCal
by addressing iCal directly and letting that deal with sync services.

 

[Diane Ross]

I like Contactizer Pro but prefer Entourage

It's a sad comment when users have to resort to workaround like this. Thanks
for sharing. It might help other users find a workaround until this gets
fixed.

What's a bit scary is that Sync Services has been broken for a long time.
I'm beginning to wonder if it can be fixed. Evidently it must be a much
harder problem than anyone imagined or we would have seen a fix issued. Is
everyone going to have to use Exchange to make this work?

 

[Kerry]

It's a sad comment when users have to resort to workaround like this. Thanks
for sharing. It might help other users find a workaround until this gets
fixed.

What's a bit scary is that Sync Services has been broken for a long time.
I'm beginning to wonder if it can be fixed. Evidently it must be a much
harder problem than anyone imagined or we would have seen a fix issued. Is
everyone going to have to use Exchange to make this work?

Yes, this is all very unfortunate. I think you might be right Diane,
you have to wonder if this can ever be fixed.

I've even now run into problems with Contactizer Pro. It just stopped
sync'g iCal. No way of getting it started. I did a full review of
their forum and for some people they cannot get iCal to sync at all
with CP. The company even responds this is why they are abandoning
sync services; just too unreliable.

I bought CP hoping that it would work at sync as it had similar power
to Entourage (not quite). Yet, this is yet another 3rd party app that
is having tons of trouble with sync services. Supposedly from what I
can see many third party developers have found sync services very
problematic.

Its terrible that on the Mac platform its like all we can use for
relatively reliable syncs is the Apple apps. They seem to be the most
reliable and if they do act up its not too difficult to rectify.
Entourage is hard to rectify and I've found no way of getting sync to
restart with CP (no response as to how this is accomplished from their
support or the forums other than other posts from the product manager
just says for some people it just won't work due to something that has
gone wrong in sync services). I don't mind the Apple apps but really I
do prefer the power that can be obtained from a third party product
such as Entourage or CP. They're just not practical.

Over on the MacWorld forum there are others that are frustrated with
their Macs due to problems like this with apps. One fellow suggested
running Parallels etc and Windows and just running the good apps in
Windows while keeping the Mac experience. He also went on to say or
just scrap your Mac and buy a Windows 7 machine when that OS is out.
The problem with the former is I don't want to live in Parallels as it
uses a lot of resources and I didn't switch to a Mac to still live in
Windows for what I see as critical, basic apps such as Information
Management and Financial Management (Quicken is a whole other story).
In terms of scrapping the Mac for a windows machine, this other fellow
put it well; I've just spent $2400 on a Macbook Pro thinking it was
better than a PC but it isn't if it won't run my apps. I've spent the
same on my Macbook Pro plus I have a Cinema Display so my total system
probably with taxes is close to $4000. The one thing is I'd have no
trouble selling it and for a reasonable price but I sure don't want to
switch back to Windows after switching to the Mac in 2003, being a
happy camper till Jan 2008 (office 2008 release) and having to buy all
new software etc. I probably know Windows as well as the Mac but
still....!!!

The Mac is a great machine, good looking and all but boy has it ever
wasted a ton of my time - way more than I ever wasted on Windows. I'm
not sure what to do. I don't like feeling I'm trapped using only the
Apple apps for Information Management when in the past I used these
very powerful information managers in both Windows and the Mac. Since
I lived in Entourage and just wrote my product with a word processor
(I really don't care which one it is as for my needs anything is fine;
Word, Pages etc) if I ran Parallels and used Outlook, which is a good
program, I'd really be living in Windows on my Mac. Just seems
strange.

However, I do agree with you Diane; if this were fixable I would think
it would be fixed by now. A year and a half is plenty of time. So its
hard to be optimistic.

I agr

 

[William Smith [MVP]]

I'm just throwing in my two cents and speculation. I have no inside
information to corroborate this.

I suspect that much of this problem is on Apple's part and they have
decided to re-engineer or re-architect Sync Services in Snow Leopard
rather than trying to change out the plumbing in Leopard.

Snow Leopard, after all, is being billed by Apple as a lot of "under the
hood" improvements and while Apple has decided to release this as a
major upgrade, they're releasing it at a substantially reduced price
compared to prior releases. This sounds to me like a "do over".

We'll have to wait until September to see if I'm right in my guess or not.

I'm always the optimist.

--

bill

Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://nine.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/youtalk>
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/meck>

 

[Kerry]

Kerrywrote:

I'm just throwing in my two cents and speculation. I have no inside
information to corroborate this.

I suspect that much of this problem is on Apple's part and they have
decided to re-engineer or re-architect Sync Services in Snow Leopard
rather than trying to change out the plumbing in Leopard.

Snow Leopard, after all, is being billed by Apple as a lot of "under the
hood" improvements and while Apple has decided to release this as a
major upgrade, they're releasing it at a substantially reduced price
compared to prior releases. This sounds to me like a "do over".

We'll have to wait until September to see if I'm right in my guess or not..

I'm always the optimist.

--

bill

Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://nine.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/youtalk>
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/meck>

Bill, from a conversation I had with a product specialist in Apple's
Sync Services division, you are right. This is part of a post that I
made yesterday on a Macworld thread I've got going so I extracted the
piece that is relevant to sync services and Entourage which he
suggested to me to hang in with till Snow Leopard comes out:

I decided to call Apple and talked to a senior Product Specialist in
the Sync Services division. Actually, this was a really good hour and
a half conversation and Apple, unlike Microsoft, has always been good
at listening and understanding the problem. Anyway, he was fully aware
of the experience most of us who rely on mobility, whether it be using
a BlackBerry, WinMobile, Palm or even iPhone were having with sync
services. He noted that this is the most complicated piece in the Mac
architecture and to get it right has proved a challenge. However, he
had some optimistic words. He said that Snow Leopard is really a build
that deals with under the hood stuff (which I've read and think is
great) and one of the things they've put a lot of effort into fixing
is sync services. They've heard the customers, know this is a critical
issue, know the pain its given us and know it needs to be fixed. He
said that sync services has had a complete overhaul and said lets
cross our fingers and hope it solves this most vexing of issues. We
won't know till its out but the developers have the pre-release builds
and so he said expect updates to third party software. Further, sync
services is only one part of the OS that they have worked on to
improve stability, reliability etc.

Further, he did a needs analysis with me as I mentioned it was an
Apple tech that suggested trying Daylight or Contactizer Pro instead
of Entourage. I didn't like Daylight and said CP mainly met my needs
but not as much as Entourage. He asked how was Entourage for me and I
said it met my needs 100% as did Outlook on Windows. His view was with
Snow Leopard around the corner, stick with Entourage as I've used it
for years, it comes from a large company, does have a lot of power
that the Apple does not provide and will not be providing and might
with the changes to Snow Leopard finally work. He didn't think it wise
to abandon years of work in Entourage or the learning that's gone into
the product to jump to something else because of this sync services
mess so that hanging in there or being a little patient to Snow
Leopard is out might pay off. <<

So let's hope that Snow Leopard does rectify this. It would be so
nice. Its the only thing really on my Mac that is giving me any great
pain.

 

[Diane Ross]

Bill, from a conversation I had with a product specialist in Apple's
Sync Services division, you are right.

That's encouraging news. I would have expected something to have leaked
about this though. In the mean time let Entourage sync then turn it off and
when you sync only sync one item at a time. This should cut down on some of
the issues with dupes and missing data.