Word 2003 - Outline Numbering Issues

[Andre]

I am a legal secretary and part-time Support Representative for Information
Technology. I have many years of experience with the production of complex
legal documents. The problem I have is that for the past few years I have
been getting contradictory instructions on how to Customize Outline Numbering
in Word 2003.

Some trainers and books say it is better to fill out the Font options for
each level in the Customize Outline Numbered List dialog box to have stable
numbering. Others says to leave these options blank to allow changes of
formatting in text to be reflected onto the numbering.

Also many Word specialists say that every level in the Customize Outline
Numbered List dialog box must be linked to a style. If only 6 levels are
linked for example 1-6 out of 9 levels how can this affect the numbering in a
document?

Finally, many Word numbering sites suggest that to ensure stability of
numbering in long complex documents that it is best to reset all numbering
schemes in the this same Customize Outline Numbered List dialog box.

I would greatly appreciate any information you may have on these issues. I
have already gone through hundreds of books and Web sites on the subject.
Including Word 2003 for Law Firms from Payne Consulting.

Thank you for reading me.

Andre

 

[Doug Robbins - Word MVP]

See "How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Microsoft
Word document" on the following page of fellow MVP Shauna Kelly's website:

http://www.ShaunaKelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html


--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

 

[Andre]

Hi Doug,

Thank you very much for taking the time. I have already read through all the
possible articles on numbering including this one...but...unless there's
someting I don't get...the issues I have, have not been addressed.

Thanks again

Andre
--
Andre
Support representative (Law Firm)

See "How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Microsoft
Word document" on the following page of fellow MVP Shauna Kelly's website:

http://www.ShaunaKelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html


--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

 

[Doug Robbins - Word MVP]

If you want to implement numbering in Word 2003, that is the way to do it.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

Hi Doug,

Thank you very much for taking the time. I have already read through all
the
possible articles on numbering including this one...but...unless there's
someting I don't get...the issues I have, have not been addressed.

Thanks again

Andre

 

[VDLee125]

Andre,

--My Background--
My background and research regarding Word is similar to yours. On the
subject of Word numbering, I've read everything available to the public by
Sherry Kappel of Microsystems, Donna Payne of Payne Consulting Group, Woody
Leonhard of Woody's Office Watch, Shauna Kelly, the MVP whose excellent site
is frequently cited by other Word experts and MVPs. After donating a kidney
to my sister, I spent a month digesting John McGhie's treatise on the subject
-- it dulled the pain. When I was done I felt like I had a master's degree in
Word and a head as big as Jimmy Neutron’s. In addition, I have thoroughly
examined the output of Word add-ins such as The Legal MacPac's numbering
toolbar and Softwise Innova, in addition to reading other authors not cited
here.

Since 1988, I have used, taught and supported Word 6 through Word 2007 for
several large law firms.

--Answer--
I have not seen any of your questions directly addressed on point. But,
based on my experience with Word, here's what I'd like to share:

1. Re Fonts - I agree with the people who recommend that one should leave
the font options blank to allow changes of formatting in text to be reflected
onto the numbering.

However -- when I'm writing documentation about numbering and want to
illustrate a point, I might deliberately change the color or font size of the
number to be different from that of the text. But I have never needed to do
such a thing in a legal document.

2. "If only 6 levels are linked for example 1-6 out of 9 levels how can this
affect the numbering in a document?"

In my experience, it will not.

However, I recommend linking all levels for consistency. In a clean install,
or a reset numbering gallery, Word heading styles 1-9 are all linked to
levels 1-9. It just seems like the "right" thing to do. To do otherwise would
be to do what they used to call "half-stepping" a/k/a just being sloppy. I
try to make my documents paragons of excellent formatting. Back in the day,
if a legal word processor came behind a supposed "expert" and found
formatting flaws, they would be verbally castigated by their colleagues --
and possibly written up by the lead operator.

On a related note -- some people like to leave levels 1-3 blank "just in
case" the attorney changes his/her mind -- they want the option to be able to
fill in those numbers with something else, as we used to do with
WordPerfect's paragraph numbering. As you may know, with WP, the standard
outline scheme was I., A., 1., a., (1), (a), i), a). People would start off
with level 3, in case the attorney decided later they wanted to include Roman
and Alpha numerals in levels 1 and 2. With Word however, Sherry Kappel, my
primary source of information, recommends _always_ starting with level 1, so
that's what I teach and is the method I utilize for my own documents. Her
firm has converted literally millions of documents so I tend to believe what
she says. <g>

3. ...[T]o ensure stability of numbering ... is best to []set all numbering
[levels] in the same Customize Outline Numbered List dialog box.

I agree with this statement based on the statements of the majority of
authors I have read.

--Next Steps--
If you would like to discuss this further, either by email or on the phone,
please send me your contact info.

Veronica Lee
Training and Support Specialist

 

[Greg]

I am a lawyer. My practice is 100% procurement (tenders, requests for
proposals, etc.) and commercial transactions. The best way to set up a
contract template in Word 2003 that will be unaffected by pasting it into
another Word document is to establish custom styles for the entire document,
starting with the document title at level 1. Use fully custom styles - that
is, when setting each of them up, choose 'no style' in the 'based on' list
in the style customization dialogue box. If you base your styles on Heading
1 or any other system styles (or for that matter you name them something
common), then when you paste them into another Word document, you run the
risk of inheriting the other documents style attributes. As for you
question about whether you have to set up nine styles for each of the nine
levels, no, you don't - unless you actually intend to use all nine levels.
Then -- set up your customized outline numbering scheme ALL AT ONCE.
Associate each of the styles you created to each of the levels, choose all
of your numbering (current and upper level numbers), set all your tabs,
indents, etc, etc, - do not leave the set up window until you are done. As
I said, you can ignore the upper levels that you do need - just make sure
you do not assign any style to any of the them.

This method works quite well and is stable, as long as you do not try to
import differently formatted styles with the same names into the document.
This will cause attribute inheritance issues.

Then, as long as you always start with the Level 1 style, when you want to
restart the list (i.e. for a Schedule or Appendix to the main contract), you
can create very long, multi-outlined list documents that are stable and,
because you are using auto-numbering, you can then use the cross-reference
feature to make all the internal section references update on print or print
preview.

Obviously this is all caveated (sorry I couldn't help but use some legalese)
by the fact the Word 2003 sucks at outline numbering.

Cheers,

Greg

 

[NumberzGirl]

Hi All,

Greg, your answer was very clear. I have a follow up question for you if
you don't mind.

I support attorneys in a law firm and our attorneys create complex business
documents will multiple levels of numbering. I have been conducting tests
with Outline Numbering in Word 2003 (we will be converting to 2007 or 2010
next year).

When you state, "set up your outline numbering scheme ALL AT ONCE" does this
mean that we may encounter issues if we have modify our scheme later?

For example, you are an attorney so you know in advance what your document
should look like. Often, after the fact, attorneys come to us and say,
please change this margin so it is indented 1/4 inch more. . .

Has it been your experience that a user will encounter numbering issues if
Custom Numbering Styles are modified after they are created?

Thanks in advance.

I am a lawyer. My practice is 100% procurement (tenders, requests for
proposals, etc.) and commercial transactions. The best way to set up a
contract template in Word 2003 that will be unaffected by pasting it into
another Word document is to establish custom styles for the entire document,
starting with the document title at level 1. Use fully custom styles - that
is, when setting each of them up, choose 'no style' in the 'based on' list
in the style customization dialogue box. If you base your styles on Heading
1 or any other system styles (or for that matter you name them something
common), then when you paste them into another Word document, you run the
risk of inheriting the other documents style attributes. As for you
question about whether you have to set up nine styles for each of the nine
levels, no, you don't - unless you actually intend to use all nine levels.
Then -- set up your customized outline numbering scheme ALL AT ONCE.
Associate each of the styles you created to each of the levels, choose all
of your numbering (current and upper level numbers), set all your tabs,
indents, etc, etc, - do not leave the set up window until you are done. As
I said, you can ignore the upper levels that you do need - just make sure
you do not assign any style to any of the them.

This method works quite well and is stable, as long as you do not try to
import differently formatted styles with the same names into the document.
This will cause attribute inheritance issues.

Then, as long as you always start with the Level 1 style, when you want to
restart the list (i.e. for a Schedule or Appendix to the main contract), you
can create very long, multi-outlined list documents that are stable and,
because you are using auto-numbering, you can then use the cross-reference
feature to make all the internal section references update on print or print
preview.

Obviously this is all caveated (sorry I couldn't help but use some legalese)
by the fact the Word 2003 sucks at outline numbering.

Cheers,

Greg

 

[Stefan Blom]

"All at once" in this case only means that you should do all the levels of
your list at once. You can edit the numbering whenever you like; see
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

Hi All,

Greg, your answer was very clear. I have a follow up question for you if
you don't mind.

I support attorneys in a law firm and our attorneys create complex
business
documents will multiple levels of numbering. I have been conducting tests
with Outline Numbering in Word 2003 (we will be converting to 2007 or 2010
next year).

When you state, "set up your outline numbering scheme ALL AT ONCE" does
this
mean that we may encounter issues if we have modify our scheme later?

For example, you are an attorney so you know in advance what your document
should look like. Often, after the fact, attorneys come to us and say,
please change this margin so it is indented 1/4 inch more. . .

Has it been your experience that a user will encounter numbering issues if
Custom Numbering Styles are modified after they are created?

Thanks in advance.