Word 2004 crashes using Bullets and Numbering

[lmklassen]

Word 2004 will frequently, althought not always, crash when I try and
use change the Bullets and Numbering format. This has been previously
attributed to a corrupt List Template in Word 98 through Word X.
However, a given document may not crash one day and then crash the
next, making me doubt this as a problem. The normal template
definitely does not appear to be corrupt since a new document won't
crash word when accessing Bullets and Numbering. I never had a problem
with Word 98 through Word X, but in Word 2004 this is a disastrous
problem. Has any come across solutions to this issue?

Martyn Klassen

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Martyn:

It *IS* a corrupt list template, and Word 2004 is a little more sensitive to
the problem than Word VX.

The answer is to delete your Normal Template (Word must be quit or it won't
let you) and empty the trash (this thing needs to be really gone, or Word
will bring it right back...)

Having done that, for each document that is playing up:

1) Select all except the last paragraph mark

2) Copy

3) Create a new document

4) Paste

5) Save under a new name.

This process is known as "Doing a Maggie" and it leaves the corrupted
definition behind in the old document.

It also leaves all of your Document-level settings such as headers, footers,
and margins behind. So fix them in the new document.

There are indeed a few things you can do to list templates (basically,
bullets and numbering) that will cause crashes if you do them often enough.
If you are really interested, ask and I will post the whole explanation: in
a few months -- there's 30 or 40 pages of it.

When it happens, Maggie the document with a clean Normal Template and start
again.

Cheers

Word 2004 will frequently, althought not always, crash when I try and
use change the Bullets and Numbering format. This has been previously
attributed to a corrupt List Template in Word 98 through Word X.
However, a given document may not crash one day and then crash the
next, making me doubt this as a problem. The normal template
definitely does not appear to be corrupt since a new document won't
crash word when accessing Bullets and Numbering. I never had a problem
with Word 98 through Word X, but in Word 2004 this is a disastrous
problem. Has any come across solutions to this issue?

Martyn Klassen

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[matt neuburg]

delete your Normal Template (Word must be quit or it won't
let you) and empty the trash (this thing needs to be really gone, or Word
will bring it right back...)

I've seen this statement many times, but my experience does not bear it
out. I find that it is quite sufficient to move the Normal template
elsewhere. When you start Word up again, it creates a new Normal - it
does not see the old Normal any more. Thus you can keep the old Normal
just in case. m.

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

I've seen this statement many times, but my experience does not bear it
out. I find that it is quite sufficient to move the Normal template
elsewhere. When you start Word up again, it creates a new Normal - it
does not see the old Normal any more. Thus you can keep the old Normal
just in case. m.

Word finds an extant Normal from older versions of Word if it can, and
imports it (copies it) to the default location for Normal, with all the
customizations and any corruption intact. That's how you get all all your
customizations when you upgrade to Word 2004 from X or 2001: Word finds your
former Normal from the previous version and copies it over. In the past,
each new version and copy of Word had its own location for Normal in the
appropriate Templates folder of its own Microsoft Office _ folder. Word 2004
has a new default location: the Microsoft User Data folder - a stable
location - so future upgrades will not need to copy anything anywhere,
unless they change the location again.

It may well be that Word checks only the old default location(s): the
Templates subfolder in Microsoft Office _ folder(s). Your experience seems
to indicate that it does not look elsewhere. It may also be that this is a
new improved feature of Word 2004 that was not true in previous versions.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
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Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
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PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

 

[matt neuburg]

Word finds an extant Normal from older versions of Word if it can, and
imports it (copies it) to the default location for Normal

That happens only on first run.

I have both Office X and Office 2004. When I move Normal to the desktop
and start up 2004, it does not find and copy the Normal from X; it
creates a completely clean Normal.

So I repeat, experimentation (many times!) shows that to
trash-and-delete your Normal in order to generate a clean Normal is not
necessary.

m.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Matt:

Yes, that would be correct. If you move the Normal Template somewhere where
Word cannot find it, that will suffice.

However, as Paul points out, there is a range of six folders you must NOT
put it in, or Word will keep it in service.

And on the Mac, a file that is in the Trash has not "moved". It has simply
been declared to be of no further interest. But if an application is
determined enough, it can still get it.

That's a bug: in the way Word accesses files, and in the way Mac OS handles
the trash. On the PC, the system blocks access to anything in Deleted
Items, so deleting is sufficient and I guess Microsoft is too lazy to change
their file handling code for the Mac.

But rather than type all this out each time, complete with a list of the six
forbidden locations and how to determine what they are, I simply warn users
that Trashing is not sufficient

Cheers

I've seen this statement many times, but my experience does not bear it
out. I find that it is quite sufficient to move the Normal template
elsewhere. When you start Word up again, it creates a new Normal - it
does not see the old Normal any more. Thus you can keep the old Normal
just in case. m.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Renaming it to OldNormal also seems to work very well.