Word 2004 Scrolling problem possibly linked to endnote.

[jonpnash]

I have a intel macbook and word 2004 with all the latest updates. When
I scroll with my mouse the scrolling gets randomly stuck and them jumps
after a while to anywhere in the document. It is independent of the
mouse type (intellimouse or plug in usb) and seems to only happen when
I have a document where I have endnote 9 references inserted. I have
hunter the internet high and low.. and not found any solution. The
problem does appear and it says to switch off the auto cwyw... thing in
Endnote but doesn't fix the problem. Nothing of any use anywhere in
microsoft neither. I think it is something to do with endnote cwyw...
thing.. or at least endnote...
Please help me... before I go silently mad!





P.s. I have turned over to macs after years of battling away with
windows and found the whole thing a total revelation and have fallen in
love with my mac. Funnily enough the only things that don't work or are
slow and frustrating are anything to do with microsoft. So mac has
gained another person to evangelize their products...

 

[jonpnash]

Hi,
Thanks. The link you kind gave me does not work. Does this mean that I
have to put up with a products sold for a mac that simply won't work on
a mac. Durrr! I am writing to endnote and will post their reply.
Cheers
Jon

 

[jonpnash]

Also would like to add that this problem still occurs when you have the
CWYW function turned off.
cheers

 

[jonpnash]

Hi John,
Thanks a lot for the more detailed explanation. They are not huge
documents, just scientific papers with couple of figures and
references. The same thing happens in all views. I have a macbook pro
and 2 gb memory, not a slow G5.. Are you telling me that it can't
handle anything more than simple documents on a piece of kit you can
happily edit video on. Feels like being being told that I need a Porshe
for a trip to the local shop. It worked fine with a much much slower
PC, the cwyw. thing. I write articles and this the the most useful
feature to insert references as you write. Why are you so defensive of
word... do you have an vested interest? Other products for macs are
lightingly fast, everything microsoft is slow... Word is slowest at the
best of times.. Is alway the last package that refuses to quit... and
slow to load. If I had an alternative, believe me I would change. The
reason I use it is simply that is what all my existing documents were
written in word.
I will see what Endnote have to say. In the mean time I am trying the
latest version of endnote to see if it works.
I don't mean to sound too grumpy and thanks for your helpful advice...
Jon

 

[jonpnash]

A quick question to John,
Why is the scrolling function within word so sensitive to other tasks
the computer is doing?This is not true for other packages I use that
are very processor intensive. Surely scrolling is one of the most
fundamental functions of handling any document and should be completely
robust. It has to be a design fault, surely.
Could you perhaps give me a reference to the 'very complex'
explanation. My scientific mind in curious.
And wishing I was in a warmer place...
Cheers
Jon

 

[jonpnash]

Seems like this is a common problem with word 2004, see earlier
discussions. Obviously a fundamental design fault and nice to see I am
not alone in that opinion. Can anyone suggest alternative word
processing packages that actually works on a Mac?
Thanks
Jon


http://groups.google.com/group/micr...d?lnk=gst&q=scrolling&rnum=1#bb9dcbfaa3810b5d


http://groups.google.com/group/micr...5?lnk=gst&q=scrolling&rnum=5#f3f4a0cb355cec55



http://groups.google.com/group/micr...b?lnk=gst&q=scrolling&rnum=4#ec5a04a30fb7941b

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Jon:

I was intrigued by your reference to a scientific mind. Lemme guess:
"software" is not the science you are most familiar with?

Word is not your problem, and I don't know how many ways I can tell you
that. I also have MVP-level expertise in FrameMaker, WordPerfect and
Interleaf (as well as a couple of mainframe packages...). If I thought any
of those would do a better job for you than Word, I would say so. Word is
the best there is.

You want more complex information, read everything here: the article I had
in mind is the one that describes the idle-loop processing architecture:
http://blogs.msdn.com/rick_schaut/archive/tags/default.aspx

You say that this issue must be a design problem. It is. Had you
considered that it might not be in *Word*?

Do I have a vested interest? Yes, lots of them: I've been in the publishing
industry for 30 years. Regrettably, Microsoft Word is not one of them
You, on the other hand, show some signs of having swallowed Steve Jobs'
fabled Reality Distortion Field whole. You may wish to review that: if true
it may not enhance your scientific reputation

Video editing is not a huge challenge to a computer: it consists of a lot of
flipping bits, and it's easy enough to tune software to do it well even on
fairly modest computers. Word processing is an order of magnitude more
complex.

Scrolling is a basic requirement: it's the thing software does "last", which
is why you start to see jerks and pauses when the rest of the process is
under stress. You can't scroll until you know where you are scrolling to.
You can't know that until you have paginated the text. You can't paginate
until you have rendered. You can't render until you have resolved the
edits...

Word is by no means perfect. If you find a better word processor, please
tell me too.

Cheers

Hi John,
Thanks a lot for the more detailed explanation. They are not huge
documents, just scientific papers with couple of figures and
references. The same thing happens in all views. I have a macbook pro
and 2 gb memory, not a slow G5.. Are you telling me that it can't
handle anything more than simple documents on a piece of kit you can
happily edit video on. Feels like being being told that I need a Porshe
for a trip to the local shop. It worked fine with a much much slower
PC, the cwyw. thing. I write articles and this the the most useful
feature to insert references as you write. Why are you so defensive of
word... do you have an vested interest? Other products for macs are
lightingly fast, everything microsoft is slow... Word is slowest at the
best of times.. Is alway the last package that refuses to quit... and
slow to load. If I had an alternative, believe me I would change. The
reason I use it is simply that is what all my existing documents were
written in word.
I will see what Endnote have to say. In the mean time I am trying the
latest version of endnote to see if it works.
I don't mean to sound too grumpy and thanks for your helpful advice...
Jon

Hi John:

That *was* lay terms The real explanation is very complex.

In simplistic terms, the pauses occur because the computer is too busy doing
"other things" to respond to Word's demands for processing.

To fix this, either make the computer faster or use Word in a way that puts
less load on the computer.

Word has five different Views, each designed for a different purpose. The
one designed for editing long documents is named Normal View. If you use
Normal View, you won't be troubled so much by the pauses.

Removing illustrations from the text and linking to them as external files
produces a dramatic speed-up on larger manuscripts. Particularly if they're
Equations...

Performing all formatting with styles, completely removing direct
formatting, has a large benefit. Removing tracked changes produces a large
benefit.

EndNote is always going to be a problem: it's poorly designed and slows the
system down badly. Get your text completed first, THEN put your EndNotes
in. Don't install or use CWYW...

Fitting more memory helps a lot: 1 GB is a minimum for serious work in Word.
2 GB gives a better result. A FAST hard disk helps: trying to edit to a USB
external drive is not a good idea.

Sorry: If you want to do serious editing on a Mac, you need a Mac Pro.
That's what they're designed for I make my living from long and complex
documents: I run a dual Zeon system with 4 GB of memory and a 250 GB RAID-5
SCSI hard drive array. I paid for it with my own money, because like any
other tradesman I am expected to arrive on the job with the tools to get the
work done.

Half the time, I don't bother to use the big system: if you use the tips I
gave you above, you would be surprised at how well you can manage with quite
a modest machine... I'm writing to you from an iBook G4. Nobody ever set
any land speed records with one of those, but I did write one of my books on
it...

Cheers

I have the same problem as Jonpnash. My 293 page document erratically
scrolls when I try to edit. Is there a solution, or will I have to
return the product as defective? I just bought it. I am a writer and on
the second edit of a book. I can not be patient when this behavior is
many times per page. I was not able to understand your technical
answer. What did you say in lay terms? thea
John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh] wrote:
Writing software that behaves nicely on a multi-tasking operating system is
not as easy as it appears.

Both Microsoft and EndNote are discovering this

You're stuck with the pauses if you want to use EndNote CWYW. It is built
to a multi-tasking model that suits Windows.

See

thread/69767a39e6c06632/6d7038a11aa8df5c?lnk=st&q=Annoying+uneven+scrolling>>>>
+

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[jonpnash]

So you do this forum thing for just for fun?

Hi Jon:

I was intrigued by your reference to a scientific mind. Lemme guess:
"software" is not the science you are most familiar with?

Word is not your problem, and I don't know how many ways I can tell you
that. I also have MVP-level expertise in FrameMaker, WordPerfect and
Interleaf (as well as a couple of mainframe packages...). If I thought any
of those would do a better job for you than Word, I would say so. Word is
the best there is.

You want more complex information, read everything here: the article I had
in mind is the one that describes the idle-loop processing architecture:
http://blogs.msdn.com/rick_schaut/archive/tags/default.aspx

You say that this issue must be a design problem. It is. Had you
considered that it might not be in *Word*?

Do I have a vested interest? Yes, lots of them: I've been in the publishing
industry for 30 years. Regrettably, Microsoft Word is not one of them
You, on the other hand, show some signs of having swallowed Steve Jobs'
fabled Reality Distortion Field whole. You may wish to review that: if true
it may not enhance your scientific reputation

Video editing is not a huge challenge to a computer: it consists of a lot of
flipping bits, and it's easy enough to tune software to do it well even on
fairly modest computers. Word processing is an order of magnitude more
complex.

Scrolling is a basic requirement: it's the thing software does "last", which
is why you start to see jerks and pauses when the rest of the process is
under stress. You can't scroll until you know where you are scrolling to.
You can't know that until you have paginated the text. You can't paginate
until you have rendered. You can't render until you have resolved the
edits...

Word is by no means perfect. If you find a better word processor, please
tell me too.

Cheers

Hi John,
Thanks a lot for the more detailed explanation. They are not huge
documents, just scientific papers with couple of figures and
references. The same thing happens in all views. I have a macbook pro
and 2 gb memory, not a slow G5.. Are you telling me that it can't
handle anything more than simple documents on a piece of kit you can
happily edit video on. Feels like being being told that I need a Porshe
for a trip to the local shop. It worked fine with a much much slower
PC, the cwyw. thing. I write articles and this the the most useful
feature to insert references as you write. Why are you so defensive of
word... do you have an vested interest? Other products for macs are
lightingly fast, everything microsoft is slow... Word is slowest at the
best of times.. Is alway the last package that refuses to quit... and
slow to load. If I had an alternative, believe me I would change. The
reason I use it is simply that is what all my existing documents were
written in word.
I will see what Endnote have to say. In the mean time I am trying the
latest version of endnote to see if it works.
I don't mean to sound too grumpy and thanks for your helpful advice...
Jon

Hi John:

That *was* lay terms The real explanation is very complex.

In simplistic terms, the pauses occur because the computer is too busy doing
"other things" to respond to Word's demands for processing.

To fix this, either make the computer faster or use Word in a way that puts
less load on the computer.

Word has five different Views, each designed for a different purpose. The
one designed for editing long documents is named Normal View. If you use
Normal View, you won't be troubled so much by the pauses.

Removing illustrations from the text and linking to them as external files
produces a dramatic speed-up on larger manuscripts. Particularly if they're
Equations...

Performing all formatting with styles, completely removing direct
formatting, has a large benefit. Removing tracked changes produces a large
benefit.

EndNote is always going to be a problem: it's poorly designed and slows the
system down badly. Get your text completed first, THEN put your EndNotes
in. Don't install or use CWYW...

Fitting more memory helps a lot: 1 GB is a minimum for serious work in Word.
2 GB gives a better result. A FAST hard disk helps: trying to edit to a USB
external drive is not a good idea.

Sorry: If you want to do serious editing on a Mac, you need a Mac Pro.
That's what they're designed for I make my living from long and complex
documents: I run a dual Zeon system with 4 GB of memory and a 250 GB RAID-5
SCSI hard drive array. I paid for it with my own money, because like any
other tradesman I am expected to arrive on the job with the tools to get the
work done.

Half the time, I don't bother to use the big system: if you use the tips I
gave you above, you would be surprised at how well you can manage with quite
a modest machine... I'm writing to you from an iBook G4. Nobody ever set
any land speed records with one of those, but I did write one of my books on
it...

Cheers

On 3/12/06 3:05 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "(e-mail address removed)"

I have the same problem as Jonpnash. My 293 page document erratically
scrolls when I try to edit. Is there a solution, or will I have to
return the product as defective? I just bought it. I am a writer and on
the second edit of a book. I can not be patient when this behavior is
many times per page. I was not able to understand your technical
answer. What did you say in lay terms? thea
John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh] wrote:
Writing software that behaves nicely on a multi-tasking operating system is
not as easy as it appears.

Both Microsoft and EndNote are discovering this

You're stuck with the pauses if you want to use EndNote CWYW. It is built
to a multi-tasking model that suits Windows.

See

thread/69767a39e6c06632/6d7038a11aa8df5c?lnk=st&q=Annoying+uneven+scrolling>>>>
+

in+Word+2004%2FEndnote&rnum=1#6d7038a11aa8df5c>

Cheers


On 3/12/06 6:35 AM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "(e-mail address removed)"

I have a intel macbook and word 2004 with all the latest updates. When
I scroll with my mouse the scrolling gets randomly stuck and them jumps
after a while to anywhere in the document. It is independent of the
mouse type (intellimouse or plug in usb) and seems to only happen when
I have a document where I have endnote 9 references inserted. I have
hunter the internet high and low.. and not found any solution. The
problem does appear and it says to switch off the auto cwyw... thing in
Endnote but doesn't fix the problem. Nothing of any use anywhere in
microsoft neither. I think it is something to do with endnote cwyw...
thing.. or at least endnote...
Please help me... before I go silently mad!





P.s. I have turned over to macs after years of battling away with
windows and found the whole thing a total revelation and have fallen in
love with my mac. Funnily enough the only things that don't work or are
slow and frustrating are anything to do with microsoft. So mac has
gained another person to evangelize their products...


--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410


--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Yes! John and all the rest of the MVPs too. If we didn't find it fun, we'd
just go away .

Here's how MSFT explains the MVP program:
<http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpexecsum>

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hello Jon,

Apart from the Cite While You Write problem, your description of Word on
your MacBook Pro:

Other products for macs are
lightingly fast, everything microsoft is slow... Word is slowest at the
best of times.. Is alway the last package that refuses to quit... and
slow to load.

is at odds with what I experience on a 1.5 GHz G4 PowerBook on OS 10.4.3
with 1 GB of RAM -- namely Word opens up in six seconds and quits in 1
second. Never has refused to quit since I moved to OS X a couple of years
ago. Sometimes I have to move the pointer slightly to get the scroll-up or
scroll-down button to operate, but after that it's OK -- and typically with
500-page documents.

I suspect you have an additional problem or two.

Problem is, I don't think I can help you with it -- from anecdotal evidence
I suspect that people on Intel chip machines may all be experiencing slower
times, but it's only a hunch, and I think your experience is much worse than
that.

Anyway, maybe you'll have better luck with Open Office, Mellel or whatever.
I wouldn't recommend Pages, though -- it needs a lot more development...

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
============

Hi Jon:

I was intrigued by your reference to a scientific mind. Lemme guess:
"software" is not the science you are most familiar with?

Word is not your problem, and I don't know how many ways I can tell you
that. I also have MVP-level expertise in FrameMaker, WordPerfect and
Interleaf (as well as a couple of mainframe packages...). If I thought any
of those would do a better job for you than Word, I would say so. Word is
the best there is.

You want more complex information, read everything here: the article I had
in mind is the one that describes the idle-loop processing architecture:
http://blogs.msdn.com/rick_schaut/archive/tags/default.aspx

You say that this issue must be a design problem. It is. Had you
considered that it might not be in *Word*?

Do I have a vested interest? Yes, lots of them: I've been in the publishing
industry for 30 years. Regrettably, Microsoft Word is not one of them
You, on the other hand, show some signs of having swallowed Steve Jobs'
fabled Reality Distortion Field whole. You may wish to review that: if true
it may not enhance your scientific reputation

Video editing is not a huge challenge to a computer: it consists of a lot of
flipping bits, and it's easy enough to tune software to do it well even on
fairly modest computers. Word processing is an order of magnitude more
complex.

Scrolling is a basic requirement: it's the thing software does "last", which
is why you start to see jerks and pauses when the rest of the process is
under stress. You can't scroll until you know where you are scrolling to.
You can't know that until you have paginated the text. You can't paginate
until you have rendered. You can't render until you have resolved the
edits...

Word is by no means perfect. If you find a better word processor, please
tell me too.

Cheers

Hi John,
Thanks a lot for the more detailed explanation. They are not huge
documents, just scientific papers with couple of figures and
references. The same thing happens in all views. I have a macbook pro
and 2 gb memory, not a slow G5.. Are you telling me that it can't
handle anything more than simple documents on a piece of kit you can
happily edit video on. Feels like being being told that I need a Porshe
for a trip to the local shop. It worked fine with a much much slower
PC, the cwyw. thing. I write articles and this the the most useful
feature to insert references as you write. Why are you so defensive of
word... do you have an vested interest? Other products for macs are
lightingly fast, everything microsoft is slow... Word is slowest at the
best of times.. Is alway the last package that refuses to quit... and
slow to load. If I had an alternative, believe me I would change. The
reason I use it is simply that is what all my existing documents were
written in word.
I will see what Endnote have to say. In the mean time I am trying the
latest version of endnote to see if it works.
I don't mean to sound too grumpy and thanks for your helpful advice...
Jon

Hi John:

That *was* lay terms The real explanation is very complex.

In simplistic terms, the pauses occur because the computer is too busy doing
"other things" to respond to Word's demands for processing.

To fix this, either make the computer faster or use Word in a way that puts
less load on the computer.

Word has five different Views, each designed for a different purpose. The
one designed for editing long documents is named Normal View. If you use
Normal View, you won't be troubled so much by the pauses.

Removing illustrations from the text and linking to them as external files
produces a dramatic speed-up on larger manuscripts. Particularly if they're
Equations...

Performing all formatting with styles, completely removing direct
formatting, has a large benefit. Removing tracked changes produces a large
benefit.

EndNote is always going to be a problem: it's poorly designed and slows the
system down badly. Get your text completed first, THEN put your EndNotes
in. Don't install or use CWYW...

Fitting more memory helps a lot: 1 GB is a minimum for serious work in Word.
2 GB gives a better result. A FAST hard disk helps: trying to edit to a USB
external drive is not a good idea.

Sorry: If you want to do serious editing on a Mac, you need a Mac Pro.
That's what they're designed for I make my living from long and complex
documents: I run a dual Zeon system with 4 GB of memory and a 250 GB RAID-5
SCSI hard drive array. I paid for it with my own money, because like any
other tradesman I am expected to arrive on the job with the tools to get the
work done.

Half the time, I don't bother to use the big system: if you use the tips I
gave you above, you would be surprised at how well you can manage with quite
a modest machine... I'm writing to you from an iBook G4. Nobody ever set
any land speed records with one of those, but I did write one of my books on
it...

Cheers

On 3/12/06 3:05 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "(e-mail address removed)"

I have the same problem as Jonpnash. My 293 page document erratically
scrolls when I try to edit. Is there a solution, or will I have to
return the product as defective? I just bought it. I am a writer and on
the second edit of a book. I can not be patient when this behavior is
many times per page. I was not able to understand your technical
answer. What did you say in lay terms? thea
John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh] wrote:
Writing software that behaves nicely on a multi-tasking operating system
is
not as easy as it appears.

Both Microsoft and EndNote are discovering this

You're stuck with the pauses if you want to use EndNote CWYW. It is built
to a multi-tasking model that suits Windows.

See

/

thread/69767a39e6c06632/6d7038a11aa8df5c?lnk=st&q=Annoying+uneven+scrolling>>>>

+

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Jon -

FWIW, I agree whole-heartedly with Clive. I've not jumped in previously
because I don't use Endnote & you've been in the best of hands without me
fouling the waters

I don't work with docs of that length, but I do a fair amount of "pokin' &
proddin'" with shorter docs.

Word, itself launches in 3 seconds from a cold start & I've never had a
problem with shutting it down. Have been running it since the initial
release on a PPC G5 Dual 2 MHz, 1.5 GB RAM... Before that on a G4 450/800
MB. Any performance problem I've encountered has been attributable to
interference from other sources with the exception of 1 update that didn't
"take" the first time.

When you say "slow to load" are you referring to the program itself, when
launched directly? Or do you mean when dbl-clicking a doc icon to launch?
Any particular file that takes along time to open, or slow with *any* file?
Have you checked the possibility of font issues?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[jonpnash]

Hi Guys,
I have been sent this solution from the endnote people. Saying it's to
do with hidden field codes.

http://www.endnote.com/support/faqs/CWYW/faq15.asp

Will try it ASAP and let you know if it sorts out the strange behaviour
of my documents.

Good luck....
Jon

 

[Clive Huggan]

Thanks, Jon -- we look forward to hearing some good news!

Could you please continue the previous thread (i.e., do a "Reply") rather
than start a new thread? Most of us use newsreader software or Entourage
and it's much easier to delve back into previous remarks if a new thread
isn't created --especially in future researches. Thanks! ;-)

Cheers,
Clive Huggan
==============