Word 2004 templates behaving strangely

A

annamdrummond

I have just switched from PC to Mac. I'm on a MacBook running OS X
version 10.5.5, and using Office 2004.

I want to attach a template to a number of documents, and have the
styles in each document automatically updated when I alter the styles
in the template. I did this quite successfully on my PC, but I can't
make it work on the Mac.

Two things won't work:

- When I alter the original template it won't let me save it, only
create a new document. This is after opening it through the Finder.
- I can't attach this template to existing documents through the Tools/
Templates and Add Ins command, as the templates I have created and
saved in My Templates do not appear in the dialog box. I can make
documents I save in that folder appear, but it won't let me use them
as templates.

I have tried to use the stationery pad function, but changes to the
template made after creating the new document don't appear in the new
document.

Thanks.
 
J

John McGhie

OK, you are getting caught out by the bug in Mac Word handling of
"templates". This bug was fixed in Word 2008.

When you open a template from the Finder, you do not get a "Template", Mac
Word converts the document to a file of type DOCUMENT.

You need to turn on the display of file extensions so that you can easily
see which kind of file you are dealing with. A template must have a ".dot"
extension, a document uses ".doc". Internally, they are different things:
like apples and oranges. Word cannot use a document as an attached
template: the content it needs for a template has been removed from a
document.

The first thing you must do is ensure that you have no other documents open.
If you have a file attached to a t4emplate, you will be unable to save the
changes to it.

Then you must use "File>Open..." from within Word to open a template in
2004. If you use any other way, the result will be a document based on the
template, not a template, and you won't be able to attach documents to it.

After that, it works just the same as PC Word: you can attach documents to
the template and if you check the "Automatically update styles on open"
checkbox, the styles will update each time you open the document.

Be careful not to do this with a document that contains numbering, because
it breaks the paragraph numbering when it updates the styles.

There is another bug in Mac Word 2004: It won't allow you to store templates
anywhere other than the "My Templates" folder. If you try, you will be
unable to select them.

But I think it's the file-type problem that's holding you up so far.

Hope this helps


I have just switched from PC to Mac. I'm on a MacBook running OS X
version 10.5.5, and using Office 2004.

I want to attach a template to a number of documents, and have the
styles in each document automatically updated when I alter the styles
in the template. I did this quite successfully on my PC, but I can't
make it work on the Mac.

Two things won't work:

- When I alter the original template it won't let me save it, only
create a new document. This is after opening it through the Finder.
- I can't attach this template to existing documents through the Tools/
Templates and Add Ins command, as the templates I have created and
saved in My Templates do not appear in the dialog box. I can make
documents I save in that folder appear, but it won't let me use them
as templates.

I have tried to use the stationery pad function, but changes to the
template made after creating the new document don't appear in the new
document.

Thanks.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
A

annamdrummond

That's a great start, John, thanks SO much. I have a PhD thesis due in
seven days and I've just changed from PC to Mac (don't ask), so
seemingly irrational problems like this make me slightly jumpy.

I did everything you suggested. When I saved my template to the My
Templates folder, then successfully attached it to a document.

Next Word crashed and wiped all formatting from the document. This has
happened before when I was doing a similar thing.

Two things which may be relevant:
- Each time I modify the template it asks me if I want to save
"Document 8" or similar.
- When I open the template it asks me if I want to disable Macros. I
don't know how to create Macros myself, so I'm not sure if there were
any in the original tempate.

Thoughts?
 
C

CyberTaz

Guess what John... I almost replied with similar content but with it
half-written decided to give it the old college try one more time.

Since I have both 04/08 installed I launched 04 then navigated to a template
in Finder & dbl-clicked it. The template opened as a template, not as a doc.

The difference in my case is that I was able to make changes & save to the
template without any difficulty... And Yes, I just did it again to prove it
wasn't a fluke :) In fact, I even opened other templates from other folders
just to make sure I wasn't imagining it & in every case the template
actually opened without generating a new doc

Needless to say I was a bit mystified, dazed & confused so I promptly
trashed the reply I had written. Apparently I'm not the only one who hadn't
previously received the memo on this -- any insights???

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
 
J

John McGhie

All:

Yeah, well now I am a bit mystified, dazed, and confused, because when I
tested by double-clicking a template in a folder other than "My Templates"
and with Word 2004 running, I too got it open as a Template, with its macros
remaining intact.

When I made a change and saved, the template saved without any problem.

But the behaviour reported by the Soon to be Overpaid One are exactly what I
would expect, and exactly what Word 2004 used to do. So I suspect there's
something strange happening on a machine that has both versions installed.

Now: to the original poster (What IS your name??):

The most important thing I can tell you is that you urgently need to locate
a PC with a copy of the correct version of Word on it that you can use. It
is possible (almost certain!) that we will not be able to solve all your
problems within the six days you have left!

I suggest that you abandon the "Automatically update styles on open" route
for those documents. It imposes a high level of stress on the application
at a very busy time (opening the document) and it is likely to lead to
crashes.

Instead:

1) Get the styles right in your template.

2) Open each document.

3) Attach the template.

4) Turn ON "Automatically update styles on open"

5) Immediately, turn OFF "Automatically update styles on open"

6) Save and close the document.

Do this to each of the other documents, one by one. When you switch
"Automatically update" on, Word will overwrite all the styles in the
document with the styles in the template. Then switch that setting off
again to reduce the crashes. You will still get lots of crashes in Mac
Word, but the cause won't be 'that' :)

Chances are, most of your crashes are coming from your footnotes. You don't
mention whether you are running EndNote. But it is a major problem, and
corrupt footnotes are so common in Mac Word that it's the first thing we
look for.

Finding corrupt footnotes is a chore: get back to us if you want the
procedure. But my strong advice would be that if you have any more problems
with those documents, you find one of those horrid PC-thingies to complete
your Thesis on. Get the thing submitted, and then we can help you ease
gently into a life of blissful Mac ownership :)

Sadly one of the more important lessons that comes your way on the road to
becoming a PhD-qualified Senior Executive is the need for planning and
testing :)

Changing "Platform" AND "Mission-critical application" seven days out from a
deadline is Medal-of-Honour/Victoria-Cross-level bravery. Always remember
that "There are Old pilots and Bold pilots, but there are no Old, Bold
pilots." The bold ones all crashed...

Having made you feel really bad, I should hasten to add that the reason I
consider this lesson in life so important is because I have done it too...
I would be delighted if this enabled you to ensure that you never do this
again, for your entire career! It would be good if I could learn the lesson
too!

The reason it wants to save "Document 8" is because you still have the blank
document open from the time you started Word. When you save a template,
Word should prompt you to save the document also. That's because while
working on a document, you may make changes to its template (for example,
you may change a style definition). These changes get stacked up as queued
writes to the template, but they need to be completed before the template
saves so they can be merged into the template.

The prompt to "Disable macros" does not necessarily refer to "macros".

This is another example of appalling Microsoft software design: the "Macro
Protection" in Word has never been updated since it was slapped in at the
last minute in the days when the "Word Prank Macro" was annoying everyone
That is: Long before the substantial attack applications, coded by the best
and brightest in large nation-states to steal secrets or money from each
other, appeared on the web.

Word's macro protection is now of so little use you might consider turning
it off, since it offers practically zero protection and a great deal of
annoyance. Run a commercial-grade anti-virus, anti-malware system and you
will be a lot safer. Or run ClamX, the free-ware one. Anything is better
than Word's...

The prompt in Word simply looks for the "Customisation Container". A Word
document or template is a collection of "containers", like the pigeon-holes
you used to see in the mail room. One of those containers can contain
Customisations", and within it can be containers for "Toolbars", "Keyboard
customisations", and "Macro Projects".

The prompt simply warns you if the "Container" exists: it does not look
inside the container to see if any "Macros" actually exist. So half the
time, it's talking out of its bum and you can afford to ignore it!

Sadly, it is also quite possible that by the time you respond to the dialog
box, whatever was in there has retrieved all your passwords and bank account
details and sent them all to Russia...

Install a proper anti-malware application, then turn the thing off :)

Hope this helps

Guess what John... I almost replied with similar content but with it
half-written decided to give it the old college try one more time.

Since I have both 04/08 installed I launched 04 then navigated to a template
in Finder & dbl-clicked it. The template opened as a template, not as a doc.

The difference in my case is that I was able to make changes & save to the
template without any difficulty... And Yes, I just did it again to prove it
wasn't a fluke :) In fact, I even opened other templates from other folders
just to make sure I wasn't imagining it & in every case the template
actually opened without generating a new doc

Needless to say I was a bit mystified, dazed & confused so I promptly
trashed the reply I had written. Apparently I'm not the only one who hadn't
previously received the memo on this -- any insights???

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
A

annamdrummond

Thanks John so much for all that excellent advice. Using the
instructions in you previous post, I pottered along quite happily on
each of my individual chapters until today, the day before everything
is due (I should say- it's a final draft, rather than the final
submission, but near enough that everything needs to be perfect). This
morning, I started to put the whole thing into one document and -
surprise surprise - Word has had a hissy fit.

I have done so much planning and testing on the PC and hadn't quite
realised that all of that would be entirely redundant once I'd changed
platforms. I think I would have moved hell and high water to find
myself another PC in the first place had I known what a big jump it
was to move the whole thing to my Mac.

For now, I think I will follow your advice and go scurrying back to
the old PC for a couple of days, and take advantage of all of my
careful preparations there. I have spent four years preparing this
document, including crafting the most beautiful of templates so it
will look just right. I am indeed using EndNote, and with 900-odd
footnotes, I don't really want to go looking for the rebellious one at
this stage of the game. That being said, I will continue to need this
material so will be following your instructions to salvage my
documents for the future. I'm so grateful for all of that information!

My name's Anna, by the way. Soon to be Dr Anna, I hope!
 
C

Clive Huggan

Hello Anna,

When you come back to Word 2004 (and that's the best version for you in my
view -- I believe it's far more suited to "serious" long documents than
2008), take a look at some of the material on the Mac Word MVPs website
(http://word.mvps.org/FAQs). You might also like to look at some notes on
the way I use Word for such documents, titled "Bend Word to Your Will",
which are available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html).

It won't take you long to get a handle on the modest number of differences.
;-)

Ah, the feeling you'll have when you see those neatly bound copies of your
final magnum opus!

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Anna (ABD...)

The very best of luck to you!

Yes, it will certainly be the footnotes, or the numbering (which is often
the same thing, because footnotes are numbered).

Don't use "Automatically Update" with automatic numbering, it WILL break the
footnotes...

Cheers


Thanks John so much for all that excellent advice. Using the
instructions in you previous post, I pottered along quite happily on
each of my individual chapters until today, the day before everything
is due (I should say- it's a final draft, rather than the final
submission, but near enough that everything needs to be perfect). This
morning, I started to put the whole thing into one document and -
surprise surprise - Word has had a hissy fit.

I have done so much planning and testing on the PC and hadn't quite
realised that all of that would be entirely redundant once I'd changed
platforms. I think I would have moved hell and high water to find
myself another PC in the first place had I known what a big jump it
was to move the whole thing to my Mac.

For now, I think I will follow your advice and go scurrying back to
the old PC for a couple of days, and take advantage of all of my
careful preparations there. I have spent four years preparing thisna
document, including crafting the most beautiful of templates so it
will look just right. I am indeed using EndNote, and with 900-odd
footnotes, I don't really want to go looking for the rebellious one at
this stage of the game. That being said, I will continue to need this
material so will be following your instructions to salvage my
documents for the future. I'm so grateful for all of that information!

My name's Anna, by the way. Soon to be Dr Anna, I hope!

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 

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