Word 2004 Thesaurus display issue under Leopard

E

etcstgo

Cc: MacBU

Given the lack of VBA support and other similarly crucial and not so
crucial but equally aggravating issues in Office 2008, for a lot of
users Office 2004 will continue to be the de facto standard for a long
time to come.

That being the case, I'm sure those users -myself included- would
appreciate a fix for the Word 2004 Thesaurus display issue under
Leopard.

As it is, I can't use Word 2008 for the bu -er, issues, the slowness
and the missing macro support, and I can't upgrade to Leopard lest I
lose use of the Thesaurus in Word 2004.

Not a comfortable position to be in.
 
C

CyberTaz

Hello _______-

Although 2004's Thesaurus doesn't work as it should in Leopard you don't
"lose" it. The workaround is a very minor inconvenience.

Either collapse then expand the Thesaurus section of the palette after
looking up a new word or collapse it before entering the next word into the
Word or Phrase field.

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
 
C

Clive Huggan

No use complaining here, by the way -- we are just fellow users of Word:Mac,
and we all have our own problems. In fact, it isn't much of a reward to the
volunteers who give advice here to have to read moans and groans about the
Microsoft product -- they may well be valid but oh! so help us, we've heard
it all *so* many times before.

If you want your opinion to be read by MacBU, send it via the Help menu.
There is a person (at the moment) who reads and actions them. "Cc: MacBU" is
a waste of keyboard effort... :)

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================
 
E

etcstgo

Hello _______-

Although 2004's Thesaurus doesn't work as it should in Leopard you don't
"lose" it. The workaround is a very minor inconvenience.

Either collapse then expand the Thesaurus section of the palette after
looking up a new word or collapse it before entering the next word into the
Word or Phrase field.

This may do for light or occasional users, but it's a royal PITA for
actual production use.

Since 2008 is not quite ready for prime time yet, I suspect the howls
on the usual sites around the web will only grow with time.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile
 
E

etcstgo

If you want your opinion to be read by MacBU, send it via the Help menu.
There is a person (at the moment) who reads and actions them. "Cc: MacBU" is
a waste of keyboard effort...  :)

Clive,

"Cc: MacBU" means I sent it to them as well.

Verbum sat sapienti.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile
 
C

Clive Huggan

Clive,

"Cc: MacBU" means I sent it to them as well.

Verbum sat sapienti.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile


Non est tanti. ;-)

Vive valeque,

Clive
(Animis opibusque parati)
=========
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Patricio:

Yeah, I figured. In which case, if you were in a kind and obliging mood,
you would save some wear and tear on these old eyeballs by NOT sending it in
here :)

We can't do anything about "opinions" (and we have lots and lots and lots of
our OWN!). So they just add to the noise and clutter in here.

Unless, of course, they are spectacularly pejorative, inflammatory, or
libellous :)

Cheers

Clive,

"Cc: MacBU" means I sent it to them as well.

Verbum sat sapienti.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
C

Clive Huggan

Well, I'm disappointed that *you* didn't say something pejorative about my
Latin scholarship, John!

Clive
(all that and good-looking too)
===============================

On 4/6/08 7:27 PM, in article C46C9614.15B16%[email protected], "John McGhie"

Unless, of course, they are spectacularly pejorative, inflammatory, or
libellous :)
<snip>
 
E

etcstgo

Hi Patricio:

Yeah, I figured.  In which case, if you were in a kind and obliging mood,
you would save some wear and tear on these old eyeballs by NOT sending it in
here :)

John,

This is not John McGhie's personal site. You're under no obligation to
read, remark on or reply to anything at all unless you want to. This
is a public forum, and as such, users are entitled to post material
that is fully germane to the very purpose of it.

This site also acts as a public record, a repository of information,
if you will. What I'm posting here may well help someone else looking
for information on this issue.

I will continue to contact Microsoft directly, but I do not see the
need to keep that confidential. In addition, as a simple search of
this site will show, MSFT staffers do read and post in this forum.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile
 
C

Clive Huggan

On 5/6/08 2:06 AM, in article
(e-mail address removed),

In addition, as a simple search of
this site will show, MSFT staffers do read and post in this forum.

<snip>

They certainly do, Patricio, but they are not the people who compile the
enormous amount of feedback that gets fed in via the Help menu. So while
some MacBU staff may engage in dialogue through this newsgroup in depth --
currently mainly (exclusively??) about some intractable problems with Word
2008 -- they will only be focusing on the particular problem that's engaging
them. That's why the regulars here keep encouraging people to use the Send
Feedback link.

To clarify my earlier comment after you put "CC MacBU" in one post, it was
not only that I wasn't aware that it really meant "I sent feedback to MacBU
via the Help menu", which you kindly explained subsequently; it was to let
other people know that MacBU does not record anything if one puts "CC MacBU"
on a post to this newsgroup.

Cheers,

Clive
======
 
J

John McGhie

Patricio:

This is not John McGhie's personal site.

Thank god for that. I already maintain two sites, I do not need any more...
This is a public forum, and as such, users are entitled to post material
that is fully germane to the very purpose of it.

And YOU were off-topic. I tried to say it nicely, because I know exactly
what you are trying to do -- I have been guilty of it myself :)

But no, the topic for this forum, and the newsgroup where the work gets
done, is to provide help to users of Microsoft Word. That's it. That's its
only purpose.

Turgid political campaigns because "one" user does not like the way the
Thesaurus works are not what this is for. Waving red flags around in the
hope of attracting a deluge of "Me Too" posts is very counter-productive --
if you ever succeeded, they simply kill the thread... I know, it happened to
me :) Sending "messages to Microsoft" in here is a complete waste of time
-- as Clive said, if a Microsoft staffer does wander in here, they will not
change anything as a result of what they may read in here. That's not their
job.

So when the Product Managers come to design the next version, nothing in
here will be considered (or even, remembered). That's what Help>Send
Feedback is for. Anything sent in that way WILL be entered into the
database, and it WILL be considered for the next version.

The product decisions for the next version will be made only by considering
the market research and the entries in the feedback database, and those
decisions will be made by people who, in some cases, do not yet work for
Microsoft.
This site also acts as a public record, a repository of information,
if you will.

That's a bug. They will fix that eventually. It's only supposed to keep
the most recent "n" number of months of posts. I think they will trim it
back to three months: it may be six. Still under discussion.
What I'm posting here may well help someone else looking
for information on this issue.

Your opinion? No. Telling them how to use the feature would help. Telling
them how to work around the bugs would help. That is very valuable.

But opinion is not useful -- this is a help forum, not a blog. Opinion is
off-topic in here. We're a pretty tolerant bunch: we will enjoy a lot of
wasted bandwidth if it's interesting or funny. But constant wafflings-on
about the way things "should" work just get in the way of the folks who are
in here trying to get help, and the volunteers trying to provide it.

I was hoping that we would start to see you putting "Helpful" posts in here,
to help other users.

Which is what this forum is actually for.

I think you actually know a bit more about Word and word-processing than
your posting to date has so far revealed. I was hoping we would get the
benefit of it.
In addition, as a simple search of
this site will show, MSFT staffers do read and post in this forum.

They do, indeed. But they do not write anything down, or change the product
as a result of what they may see -- that's not their job. Most of the
'Softies you see in here were doing this in their own time, trying to help
users (and us!) out. Now that the level of user requests has dropped off
dramatically, you are unlikely to see them in here again for two or three
years (until the next version).

Kurt and Curt may appear from time to time, because being in here IS part of
their paid work.

To make ANY change to the way the product works, there MUST be a ticket
raised in the project management database. Without a ticket, the issue will
not even be investigated. Curt is the person mainly responsible for raising
defect tickets against Word.

Your Thesaurus issue is not a 'defect', it's a 'suggestion'. It is often
extremely difficult to know the difference, without having read the
functional specification. A 'defect' is where the product is not doing what
the functional specification said it should. A 'suggestion' is where the
product is working exactly as designed but you don't like it. Or, as in this
case, the problem is due to the altered behaviour of another vendor's
product (Apple OS X, in this case). Microsoft could "suggest" that Apple
should fix this one, but I suspect they won't.

There is a staffer (currently, Courtney) who reads the feedback sent every
day. Courtney is responsible for raising suggestion tickets, and chances
are she will raise one for any comment that makes sense. It will get
investigated and added to the list if practical.

I hope you will continue to send feedback. I certainly do that too. But if
you put a notice in here to say that you have reported a problem, you are
working against yourself. It invites other users to think "Oh, that has
already been reported, I won't bother."

But on the other side, Courtney will say "Only one report of this issue, WE
won't bother..." Courtney is a manager, she has the authority to decide not
to raise a ticket on an issue, and if there is only one report, it's likely
that's what her decision would be.

She needs thousands of reports of a critical problem to justify expending
resources to go back and fix Word 2004. The Thesaurus is never going to be
seen as 'critical'! A software vendor will only ever change the "previous
version" of a product to fix a security problem.

In the Thesaurus case, one of the MVPs logged this suggestion during the
Office 2008 beta, so we know the ticket has been raised :)

So there you are: you were off-topic, and I asked you, nicely, not to do
that.

Cheers

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
E

etcstgo

Patricio:

Your Thesaurus issue is not a 'defect', it's a 'suggestion'.  

John,

It takes two to tango and I have to work for a living.

My point boils down to this:

1) Word 2008 is full of bugs. Until they get fixed, I cannot in good
conscience recommend it to anyone for professional use. Where you have
a roomful of people working under a deadline, you can't use software
that requires advanced troubleshooting skills or bending over
backwards to accomodate its shortcomings.
2) As a result, many users around the world are staying with Word
2004, which will remain the de facto standard for quite some time to
come. I know that that will be the case in my bailiwick.
3) For all intents and purposes (and most especially professional
work), the Thesaurus function in Word 2004 has been rendered unusable.
Reason? Solution? Heaven knows. Vague hints blaming Apple are all I've
seen.
4) As a mere mortal, there's next to nothing I can do to prod
Microsoft to produce a fix except send feedback and register the issue
in forums such as this. If this doesn't meet your standards of
relevance, I suggest you take a deep breath and remember that not
everyone is perfect.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile
 
E

etcstgo

Cc: MacBU

Given the lack of VBA support and other similarly crucial and not so
crucial but equally aggravating issues in Office 2008, for a lot of
users Office 2004 will continue to be the de facto standard for a long
time to come.

That being the case, I'm sure those users -myself included- would
appreciate a fix for the Word 2004 Thesaurus display issue under
Leopard.

As it is, I can't use Word 2008 for the bu -er, issues, the slowness
and the missing macro support, and I can't upgrade to Leopard lest I
lose use of the Thesaurus in Word 2004.

Not a comfortable position to be in.

I'm elated to report that the Word 2004 Thesaurus display issue under
Leopard has been fixed in yesterday's update. (It *was* fixable after
all -who would have thought, judging from some replies on this forum).

Now I can update to Leopard, which thus far resided on a secondary
internal drive I only use for testing purposes.

Thanks, MacBU.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile
 

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