Word 2008 -- equations

[mdh]

I'm having some trouble with equations not displaying/printing
correctly. This is in Word 2008 and the files have always been Word
2008 files saved in the .docx format.

Sometimes (usually after saving and re-opening the file), the
equations get changed -- often they get shifted down and partially
cilpped. It looks like the font size and leading had changed. If I
double-click on the equation (as if editing it), and then close it,
the equation reverts to its proper appearance. It will then print
correctly.

I did change the sizes in the equations -- full size is now 10 points,
rather than the default 12. Is this something that causes problems?

Any other ideas on what might be affecting this?

Matt

 

[mdh]

Okay, I have a picture showing the result:
http://mdhills.googlepages.com/word2008_eqn_moving.png/word2008_eqn_moving-full;init:.png

In that image, the equation somehow ended up shifted down and only the
top of the "R" was visible.
Double-clicking the equation (and then closing the equation editor)
restored the appearance to what is shown at the bottom.

Any ideas on what this is related to?

thanks,
Matthew

 

[John McGhie]

My guess is that the paragraph containing the equation is set to an "Exact"
line height.

Set it to "Single" line height, so Word can expand the line vertically if it
needs to to display the whole equation.

If it's not that, then check the properties of the equation to ensure that
it is not set to Floating and "Behind the Text".

Hope this helps

Okay, I have a picture showing the result:

http://mdhills.googlepages.com/word2008_eqn_moving.png/word2008_eqn_moving-ful
l;init:.png

In that image, the equation somehow ended up shifted down and only the
top of the "R" was visible.
Double-clicking the equation (and then closing the equation editor)
restored the appearance to what is shown at the bottom.

Any ideas on what this is related to?

thanks,
Matthew

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[mdh]

Hi John,
thanks for the advice. The equation is set for "in line with
text" (in the Format Object dialog). The existing paragraph style is
set for (before: 0 pt, after: 3 pt, spacing: "At least 13 pt" -- this
is for 10-point body text).

In the format object dialog for the equation, I see:
Height: absolute: 0.38"
Width: absolute: 2.37"
Scale: 101% x 100%, Lock aspect ratio, relative to original
picture size
no crop

When I click on the equation once to hilight the frame, the frame
appears in the correct spot, but the equation is shifted within the
frame. As you can see in the picture I linked to, the content of the
equation reverts to its proper location after I open the equation
editor.

I've pared down to a short document where I can produce this shift
(mostly) reliably:
It seems to be getting triggered when I select the document and then
update fields (I do this to force regeneration of a field I use for
numbering).

The madness in the method:
- if I (select all/update field/undo/update field) the problem is
undone and does not appear after the second update field
- if I (select all/update field/undo/redo) the problem is undone and
then reappears after the redo.

Any additional suggestions?
(I haven't found a useful way to interact with equations via
applescript -- I would have tried to automate stepping through all
equations and converting each equation in to an equation -- that seems
to clean it up, too)

Thanks,
Matt

 

[John McGhie]

Ah! OK, what style is applied to the equation?

If the style has numbering on it, when you update the fields it may adopt
the indent being applied by the numbering.

Reveal the field codes for the equation and check to see if the extremely
irritation "MERGEFORMAT" keyword is part of the field code. If it is, it
will bring in a fresh copy of the paragraph formatting whenever the field
codes refresh.

It may also be that the equation is inside a drawing frame that has not been
shrunk to the size of the equation.

Sorry: these are all fairly unlikely...

Hi John,
thanks for the advice. The equation is set for "in line with
text" (in the Format Object dialog). The existing paragraph style is
set for (before: 0 pt, after: 3 pt, spacing: "At least 13 pt" -- this
is for 10-point body text).

In the format object dialog for the equation, I see:
Height: absolute: 0.38"
Width: absolute: 2.37"
Scale: 101% x 100%, Lock aspect ratio, relative to original
picture size
no crop

When I click on the equation once to hilight the frame, the frame
appears in the correct spot, but the equation is shifted within the
frame. As you can see in the picture I linked to, the content of the
equation reverts to its proper location after I open the equation
editor.

I've pared down to a short document where I can produce this shift
(mostly) reliably:
It seems to be getting triggered when I select the document and then
update fields (I do this to force regeneration of a field I use for
numbering).

The madness in the method:
- if I (select all/update field/undo/update field) the problem is
undone and does not appear after the second update field
- if I (select all/update field/undo/redo) the problem is undone and
then reappears after the redo.

Any additional suggestions?
(I haven't found a useful way to interact with equations via
applescript -- I would have tried to automate stepping through all
equations and converting each equation in to an equation -- that seems
to clean it up, too)

Thanks,
Matt

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[mdh]

The equation field does not look like it includes any mergeformat
switch. (It just looks like: "{EMBED Equation.3")
The other fields do have a \MERGEFORMAT switch. However, removing
these did not seem to affect the result.

As I indicated above, if I "update fields", then "undo", then "update
fields" again, the problem does not appear after the 2nd update
fields. And things seem to work fine for the remainder of the editing
session. However, if I save the document and then reopen, the ability
to screw up the equation displays returns, and the first

I saw that the notes for Service Pack 1 (12.1.0) included:
# Equations, Organization Charts, and other objects display correctly.
#
# This update fixes an issue that causes some objects, such as
Microsoft
# Equation objects and Microsoft Organization Chart objects, to
display
# incorrectly when a document that contains them is saved in an Open
XML
# format such as .docx, and then the document is reopened in Word
2008.

I'm patched to 12.1.7, but I'm wondering if this isn't the same issue
(?)

Is there some point of contact at Microsoft where it is useful to send
in a sample file?


Matt

 

[mdh]

Okay, I have a new minimal sequence to trigger this problem
(Word 2008, 12.1.7; MacOSX 10.4.11):

Quit and restart Word.
(new document is automatically created)
select "Object..." from the "Insert" menu.
select "Microsoft Equation" from the dialog
in the equation editor type "HOUDINI"
close the equation editor
save the document with format "Word document (.docx)"
close the document
open the document
double-click on the equation to open the equation editor
close the equation editor
scratch head


So it looks like it is related to what Word does when it first updates
the equation displays after opening a DOCX file.
Any suggestions?

thanks,
Matt

 

[krothnbrg]

Matt,

My name is Karl. I'm the Tech Support Manager here at Design Science
(Makers of Equation Editor and MathType). I'm trying to reproduce this
problem and have not been successful. Is it possible that you can send
me a file that is exibiting the problem so I can take a look at it
here?

Email be at (e-mail address removed) and I'll take a look at it. And I'll be
happy to post my findings here so others can see it too.

Karl

 

[John McGhie]

Thank you, Karl!

I was just about to ask Matt for a sample

Cheers

Matt,

My name is Karl. I'm the Tech Support Manager here at Design Science
(Makers of Equation Editor and MathType). I'm trying to reproduce this
problem and have not been successful. Is it possible that you can send
me a file that is exibiting the problem so I can take a look at it
here?

Email be at (e-mail address removed) and I'll take a look at it. And I'll be
happy to post my findings here so others can see it too.

Karl

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[Bob Mathews]

John,

Karl's out of the office today, but he forwarded the files Matt sent
him. Neither of us could reproduce the issue. I'm forwarding these
files to you privately, so be on the look out for them in a bit.

Bob

 

[mdh]

Karl, Bob, and John:
I appreciate your help in looking at this. I had sent Karl two Word
documents -- one as a before and one as an after example.
In not being able to reproduce it, I'm guessing that the "after"
document still had issues, but that you weren't able to generate the
after document by editing the equation in the first document?

I'll try a wipe and reinstall of Office 2008.

Thanks so much,

Matthew

 

[mdh]

I haven't had a chance to reinstall Office yet (need to wait until I'm
back home with my install discs).

Interestingly, the problem is affecting other objects, as well. I
inserted a Microsoft Excel Chart, and its display got messed up after
the document was saved, then re-opened and edited.

Matt

 

[Bob Mathews]

Matt, with it affecting other objects, that does point to another
cause besides Equation Editor. Unfortunately I have no clue what that
"other" cause is.

To answer your question in your previous email -- you're correct. When
the "after" document got to us, it was still messed up, so we could
plainly see there was a problem with it. When we opened the "before"
document, we couldn't reproduce the problem.

--
Bob Mathews
Director of Training
Design Science, Inc.
bobm at dessci.com
http://www.dessci.com/free.asp?free=news
FREE fully-functional 30-day evaluation of MathType
MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor

 

[John McGhie]

Thanks Bob:

I got Matt's bits, and I got a perfect Repro here.

I suspect this is a Word bug that shows up only if the language is English
AUS, but I will wait for your confirmation before I land this on our good
mates at Redmond...

Cheers

John,

Karl's out of the office today, but he forwarded the files Matt sent
him. Neither of us could reproduce the issue. I'm forwarding these
files to you privately, so be on the look out for them in a bit.

Bob

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[mdh]

Checking through the re-install process, didn't get the problem until
the 12.1.0-->12.1.7 patch.

Bob -- were you guys testing with 12.1.7, or some other version of
Word? And which version of MacOSX?

Thanks!
Matthew

 

[Bob Mathews]

Matthew, I don't know about Karl, but I bet his config is the same as
mine.

OS X Version 10.5.6
Word 12.1.7

I'll bet the fact that you didn't hit the problem until the 12.1.7
patch is information John can pass on to the right people in Redmond.

Bob

 

[mdh]

Thanks Bob:

I got Matt's bits, and I got a perfect Repro here.

Based on the collective experiences:
- affects objects in XML-based files after first read in
- introduced in Word 12.1.7
- possible dependence on MacOSX version (present in 10.4.11; one
report of not seeing it in 10.5.6)
- don't believe there is language dependence (I'm using US English)

Matt

 

[mdh]

Oops... had meant to finish by asking:

What is the current compatibility between MacOSX 10.5 and Word 2008?
I'd been holding off on this upgrade, but will pull the trigger if it
resolves this issue without introducing new major headaches.

Thanks!
Matt

 

[Bob Mathews]

What is the current compatibility between MacOSX 10.5 and Word 2008?

Now that's a question for the man with the mustache. (John, I know you
don't have a mustache -- at least not as of the last photo of you I've
seen -- but you ought to have one.)

Bob

 

[mdh]

Now that's a question for the man with the mustache.

now thats a worthy .sig if I ever saw one...

Matt