Word and Entourage Interoperability

D

dunnk90

When I perform a Merge in Word using the Entourage Address Book as the
data source, I am automatically limited to the Entourage "categories"
for sorting and querying.

This means I cannot do what I need to do. Is there a hack or
workaround so that I can use the Entourage Address Book yet still have
access to the full-featured query and sort functions in Word? If not,
how do I go about gently (or not so gently) suggesting that this
unhelpful "feature" be removed from Word's interoperations with
Entourage?

TIA
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

When I perform a Merge in Word using the Entourage Address Book as the
data source, I am automatically limited to the Entourage "categories"
for sorting and querying.

This means I cannot do what I need to do. Is there a hack or
workaround so that I can use the Entourage Address Book yet still have
access to the full-featured query and sort functions in Word? If not,
how do I go about gently (or not so gently) suggesting that this
unhelpful "feature" be removed from Word's interoperations with
Entourage?

The best workaround is to make many, and useful categories in Entourage. You
can, of course, give contacts multiple categories. So you can even have
"sub-categories", where all, or most, or some contacts of a particular
category also have a second (or more) category. (Also you can sort
Entourage's Address Book by category, select all members of 3 different
categories, and give them all a super-category.) In Entourage, only the
primary category displays the color but that doesn't matter here. It gives
you much greater flexibility. Most people would give everyone on a
particular mailing list a category, and select that category in Word's Data
Merge Query.

But there's much greater versatility than this in Word: you can flip that
"Categories" popup in the Query dialog to "Complete Record" and now you get
a list of every contact in your Address Book. If you click the Clear All
button, you start from an empty set and can check off each individual you
want to include. If you click Select All, you start with everyone selected
and can now _de-select_ individuals. But you can also start by clearing and
selecting just one or two categories before you flip the popup to Complete
Record, and _then_ start selecting extras ore de-selecting any you want.
That gives complete versatility - you choose whoever you want in the
quickest way to get there.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP Entourage
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Entourage you are using - **2004**, X
or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions otherwise.
 
K

Kensington United Methodist Church

When I perform a Merge in Word using the Entourage Address Book as the
data source, I am automatically limited to the Entourage "categories"
for sorting and querying.
[...]

The best workaround is to make many, and useful categories in Entourage.

[snip lots of excellent info]
That gives complete versatility - you choose whoever you want in the
quickest way to get there.

Wow! Thank you for all of your help!

But Word still won't let me *sort* when I use the Entourage data base.
Assuming that Word will give me the records in whichever order they
currently are in Entourage, I'm guessing that I can sort in Entourage and
then head over to Word to do my stuff.

Except that Entourage won't let me sort by zip code, unless I create a zip
code category and re-type in every one of the zip codes in my membership
directory.

Or am I wrong?
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

When I perform a Merge in Word using the Entourage Address Book as the
data source, I am automatically limited to the Entourage "categories"
for sorting and querying.
[...]

The best workaround is to make many, and useful categories in Entourage.

[snip lots of excellent info]
That gives complete versatility - you choose whoever you want in the
quickest way to get there.

Wow! Thank you for all of your help!

But Word still won't let me *sort* when I use the Entourage data base.
Assuming that Word will give me the records in whichever order they
currently are in Entourage, I'm guessing that I can sort in Entourage and
then head over to Word to do my stuff.

Except that Entourage won't let me sort by zip code, unless I create a zip
code category and re-type in every one of the zip codes in my membership
directory.

Or am I wrong?


There are two ways you can do this.

1) In Word

€ Assuming you want a "Catalog" merge for the moment, when you assemble the
fields in Data Merge Manager, don't drag "«Address»", instead do the fields
separately, and separate them by tabs. Type the tab key. Depending on
whether you want to sort by last name within the same zip code, also
separate first and last name by tabs. If you eventually want commas in the
address, include them too. like this:

«First Name» «Last Name» «Street» «City», «State» «Zip Code»


What that actually is is:

«First Name»<tab>«Last Name»<tab>«Street»<tab>«City, «State»»<tab>«Zip
Code»<return>
|

€ Then do the Merge after Query

€ Select all

€ Table/Convert--> Text to Table
In the window that comes up choose to make 5 columns, separated by Tabs
(not Paragraphs).
Press Options button and remove the checks for header and First column.
Click OK.

€ Now you've got a 5-column table. Still with all selected, choose
Table/Sort.
In the window that comes up choose to sort by Column 5, then Column 2
Click OK

€ Still all selected, choose Table/Convert-->Table to Text
In the window that comes up, choose to Separate Text with Tabs
Click OK

And there you are. But it has each record all on one line. You could
Separate by Paragraphs (it even puts an extra blank line between records -
nice) but you'll have First and Last Names on separate lines. (If you don't
need to sort secondarily by last name, don't put a <tab> between First Name
and Last Name to begin with - just a space, and they'll end up on the same
line.)



Now this won't really work for Labels, Envelopes, etc. Maybe you don't like
the layout even for Catalog. So don't forget:


2) Office is a Suite

€ In Entourage, go to File/Export/Contacts to a text file. Unfortunately you
have to export your whole address book this way, and the fields do not
include Categories. This may be OK for you - you can do your selecting in
the next step - or you might prefer to get my scripts Export-Import
Entourage X which will let you export by category (up to 4 categories) or by
selection.

€ In Excel, go to to Data/Get External Data/From a Text File. Confirm
Delimited/Tabs in the import wizard.
Now you have the whole thing in an Excel spreadsheet.

€ Delete rows (contacts) you don't want. (You could sort by Last Name - see
next step - to make that easier. If you exported the full address book, it
won't appear to be in any order.) Don't bother deleting columns, you don't
need to. There's all sorts of really sophisticated stuff you can do in Excel
if you want to and know how.

€ Data/Sort--> by Work Zip (or Home Zip) , then by Last Name.

Now you have it sorted as you want. (The difference here is that you get all
fields, not "Default" street address and zip, so you should have all
addresses in the same Work or Home fields in Entourage before you export.
You're going to have to choose either Work or Home, not default.)

€ Save the spreadsheet as an Excel Workbook (.xls file).

€ In Word, do any sort of Merge - Labels, Envelope, Form Letter, etc. Do NOT
choose Office Address Book as you Data Source, instead choose Open Data
Source... and navigate to the Workbook.xls file you made.

€ You get the usual choices of fields, and this time format it exactly as
you want it to appear :

«First_Name» «Last_Name»
«Work_Street_Address»
«Work_City», «Work_State» «Work_Zip»

This time you do have a header row.

€ Click OK. If you selected the rows you wanted in Excel, there's nothing to
Query, but you might find you can do your Query here instead. If you used my
script there will be a field for Categories which could help.

€ Merge.



So, using Entourage, Excel and Word you can do just about any sort of merge
you want.


--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP Entourage
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Entourage you are using - **2004**, X
or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions otherwise.
 
D

dunnk90

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:03:57 -0700, Paul Berkowitz

[snip some suggestions for various work-arounds]
So, using Entourage, Excel and Word you can do just about any sort of merge
you want.

<grin> I suppose that's true if "you" (a) are a power user; and
(b) have more time than you know what to do with.

But it's pretty obvious that if you need to use Excel as an
intermediary to do something as simple as creating mailing labels
sorted by zip code, then there's a serious problem with Word/Entourage
interoperability.

Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions for how to hack this, or how
to get the attention of someone who is doing the Mac Word/Entourage
programming so that this problem can be fixed by a patch ASAP?
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:03:57 -0700, Paul Berkowitz

[snip some suggestions for various work-arounds]
So, using Entourage, Excel and Word you can do just about any sort of merge
you want.

<grin> I suppose that's true if "you" (a) are a power user; and
(b) have more time than you know what to do with.

But it's pretty obvious that if you need to use Excel as an
intermediary to do something as simple as creating mailing labels
sorted by zip code, then there's a serious problem with Word/Entourage
interoperability.

Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions for how to hack this, or how
to get the attention of someone who is doing the Mac Word/Entourage
programming so that this problem can be fixed by a patch ASAP?


I already explained how to do it. You don't need to spend more than about 1
minute in Excel. That's what Excel is good at. I find it a lot simpler than
the method I gave using just Word tables for Catalog - that's more
complicated. If you fiddle with the spacing you might be able to get it to
work with labels too. it could take you hours and still not be tight. Open
Excel and do it in 30 seconds or so.

There's no point annoying me. I'm the most likely person to provide a script
one of these days if I really thought that people didn't want to spend in
minute in Excel. There might be a way to provide Default address too. In the
past I've found that some people are resistant to using scripts (don't know
why) and prefer to use the apps as given. And it already works that way now,
with Excel to open and save the data source. You don't have to sort if you
don't want to - but if you do it takes about 1 second in Excel. to do a
perfect sort on any column. I don't see what the big problem here might be.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP Entourage
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.
 
D

dunnk90

Paul Berkowitz said:
There's no point annoying me. I'm the most likely person to provide a script
one of these days if I really thought that people didn't want to spend in
minute in Excel. There might be a way to provide Default address too. In the
past I've found that some people are resistant to using scripts (don't know
why) and prefer to use the apps as given. And it already works that way now,
with Excel to open and save the data source. You don't have to sort if you
don't want to - but if you do it takes about 1 second in Excel. to do a
perfect sort on any column. I don't see what the big problem here might be.

I really am not trying to annoy you! Sorry if it sounded so. I do
appreciate your time and efforts to help.

The big problem here is that it's definitely not one minute in Excel.
It's exporting the database from Entourage into text/delimited, and
then importing the text/delimited file into Excel -- every time.
That's a tedious process, especially on the Excel end. If I don't go
through and tell Excel what type of data is in each of the (couple of
dozen) columns, then my sorts won't work right. Especially for zip
codes, which need to be treated as text in order to sort properly.

Ok, and then we go into Word, tell Word now to look for the
newly-created Excel file rather than the Entourage file. Even though
it's the Entourage data we're after.

This is in fact the workaround I had used a couple of times before
asking my question on this newsgroup. I am someone who could probably
do that and get accustomed to it enough that the intermediary Excel
step would cease to be frustrating by about the 20th time I did it.

But the bigger problem than time is skill level required. I have a
competence in these programs that is far above that of the average
user. And I am definitely not the person in my office who should be
doing this task. The person who should be doing this has a very basic
understanding of the programs.

I read somewhere on this newsgroup (or maybe in a document about
Word's bulleting and numbering system) that Microsoft seeks to hide
complexity from users. Well, I'd say that this is a circumstance where
users are being asked to tackle a complex set of tasks to accomplish
something that appears to be relatively straightforward. If a user is
able to select the Entourage database from Word's merge function, then
it shouldn't be this hard/complex to make full use of that database.

I really was excited to find Entourage in the Office suite for the
Mac. I was hoping that we could use it as the central location for
storing and maintaining all of our member data. But we just can't do
that if printing mailing labels sorted by zip code is going to be this
complex and difficult.

Is there some way to have the Entourage data automatically be exported
into a temp file when Word calls it up for a merge, rather than have
it be accessed directly? Then we could sort and query within the Word
merge module to our hearts' content and it wouldn't affect the
Entourage data.
 
D

dunnk90

Following up to myself.

I really am not trying to annoy you! Sorry if it sounded so. I do
appreciate your time and efforts to help.

The big problem here is that it's definitely not one minute in Excel.
It's exporting the database from Entourage into text/delimited, and
then importing the text/delimited file into Excel -- every time.
That's a tedious process, especially on the Excel end. If I don't go
through and tell Excel what type of data is in each of the (couple of
dozen) columns, then my sorts won't work right. Especially for zip
codes, which need to be treated as text in order to sort properly.

Ok, and then we go into Word, tell Word now to look for the
newly-created Excel file rather than the Entourage file. Even though
it's the Entourage data we're after.

I just rememberd a few more problems that caused me to reject this as
a usable workaround:

1. The Excel file needs to be saved every time the user does this in
order to use it in Word. I guarantee that someone will fail to save
over top of the correct file about once in every 20 times (at best).
So our mailing will go to an old, not updated mailing list.

2. The columns need to be re-designated for "type" every time you
import them into Excel. If the user fails to set even one of them
correctly (and there are a couple of dozen), then the whole sort will
be fouled up.

This is especially true where the user is not a power user. The more
steps you build in, the more likely that simple mistakes will happen.

The amount of understanding of the programs and concepts involved that
a user needs to perform a Word merge -- and be able to see and correct
mistakes -- is exponentially smaller than the amount of understanding
a user needs in order to perform the workaround you suggest. With the
user population out there now, exporting data into ASCII delimited
files and importing ASCII delimited files into a spreadsheet is just
waaaay beyond standard competence level. There's too much that could
go wrong.

It all seems very easy to you, I'm sure. :)
 
J

Jeffrey Weston

Hey Kristen,

Having to use Excel or make extensive use of the category feature in
Entourage, may not seem like the ideal solution, but Paul is quite the guru
at this stuff.

We're aware that there is room for a lot more functionality in the Data
Merge/Address Book feature, and we'll be taking this into account for future
versions.

Thanks

Jeffrey Weston
Mac Word Test
Macintosh Business Unit
Microsoft
 
D

dunnk90

Jeffrey Weston said:
Hey Kristen,

Having to use Excel or make extensive use of the category feature in
Entourage, may not seem like the ideal solution, but Paul is quite the guru
at this stuff.

I do appreciate Paul's time and efforts -- very very much. I hope that
comes through loud and clear. <g>

That Paul is definitely very generous with his time and expertise is
clear as a bell. I hope it's ok to respectfully give feedback, letting
you and Paul know why the workaround suggested just isn't workable. I
hope the info I provided is helpful; I'm sure that many many other
users would appreciate a solution.
We're aware that there is room for a lot more functionality in the Data
Merge/Address Book feature, and we'll be taking this into account for future
versions.

No chance for a patch?
 
E

Elliott Roper

Jeffrey Weston said:
Hey Kristen,

Having to use Excel or make extensive use of the category feature in
Entourage, may not seem like the ideal solution, but Paul is quite the guru
at this stuff.

We're aware that there is room for a lot more functionality in the Data
Merge/Address Book feature, and we'll be taking this into account for future
versions.

Thanks

Jeffrey Weston
Mac Word Test
Macintosh Business Unit
Microsoft
Don't muck it up too much. Word/Excel via mail merge is working pretty
well already. I have been doing my mail with that since Word 5.1

You might ask the Excel folk to be less eager to turn e-mail addresses
into hyperlinks, or give us a swith to turn it off.
 
D

dunnk90

Don't muck it up too much. Word/Excel via mail merge is working pretty
well already. I have been doing my mail with that since Word 5.1

I would switch to using Excel to manage all of our data in a flat
second, except for one pesky thing that isn't going to get any less
pesky as time goes on:

What do you use for email? If we use Entourage to manage our
membership data we don't have to re-enter email addresses into two
places. They are in our email client's address book, and therefore
automatically in our membership directory. If we're able to use
Entourage to manage our membership directory, that is.
You might ask the Excel folk to be less eager to turn e-mail addresses
into hyperlinks, or give us a switch to turn it off.

Great idea. :)
 
E

Elliott Roper

I would switch to using Excel to manage all of our data in a flat
second, except for one pesky thing that isn't going to get any less
pesky as time goes on:

What do you use for email? If we use Entourage to manage our
membership data we don't have to re-enter email addresses into two
places. They are in our email client's address book, and therefore
automatically in our membership directory. If we're able to use
Entourage to manage our membership directory, that is.

Because my set of snail-mail addresses is largely disjoint from the set
of e-mail addresses, I find that auto updating between mail and address
book and my Word-and-Excel mailshot and business letter set-up is more
of a nuisance than a help. I use Mac's own mail.app in preference to
Entourage mostly to stop it making a mess of my Word. I use Mac's
address book to frolic with my Bluetooth phone. However, were I in your
shoes, I'd be looking for some synch-er-upper to bounce selected
addresses among the lot of them. Perhaps an Applescript to bounce an
addressbook entry into my Excel sheet. As in a script labelled
"yippee!_a_new_member". The Excel would work a treat for remembering
what state each member is in, so you can automate a lot of admin. I'm
starting to see that auto-e-mails from the Excel would be slightly
painful, although generating a recipient list for a particular
semi-spamming exercise would be easy enough.
Great idea. :)
and thanks for fixing my spelling! I had my brain swithed off didn't I?
 
E

Elliott Roper

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