Word Crashing

[drgooply]

I read with interest the thread about frequent Word crashes, and the
person who posted that she too was having the same problem, and the
suggestion she start a new thread. I too have had frequent Word
crashes, and hadn't realized that mine too are related to cutting text,
until I'd read the thread, and realized that's what they all had in
common. (I used to think it was because I was running iTunes or
something like it simultaneously, but that is not the case.) It
happens when I control X text. I too use a program, in this case
CopyPaste, which probably comes between Word and the OS, or whatever
Word needs to be in direct contact with. Before CopyPaste, I used
IClip, but had frequent crashes. CopyPaste caused fewer crashes, but
still, Word "stops unexpectedly" very often. (I have set the AutoSave
in preferences to 2 minutes because of this.)
I need a program like CopyPaste or IClip - in Windows, I used ClipMate,
a great program, but not made for Mac - because I often need to refer
back to things I've deleted in the course of creating a manuscript,
whether or not I've shut down the computer between sessions, or
regardless of how long ago I deleted it. Word's Clipboard is
inadequate; it doesn't hold enough, and isn't there by default, and
must be visible onscreen in order to work. These programs work in the
background, and just store the things you delete, in a way you can
control.
Is there anyway of working with one of these programs in a way that
doesn't cause Word to react with pique and shut down? Is there one
that might not cause the shut-down?
Thanks for the help I am coming to depend upon.
DrG

 

[Elliott Roper]

I read with interest the thread about frequent Word crashes, and the
person who posted that she too was having the same problem, and the
suggestion she start a new thread. I too have had frequent Word
crashes, and hadn't realized that mine too are related to cutting text,
until I'd read the thread, and realized that's what they all had in
common. (I used to think it was because I was running iTunes or
something like it simultaneously, but that is not the case.) It
happens when I control X text.

...more precisely when you cut while one of these wonder clipboards is
hanging about...

I too use a program, in this case
CopyPaste, which probably comes between Word and the OS, or whatever
Word needs to be in direct contact with. Before CopyPaste, I used
IClip, but had frequent crashes. CopyPaste caused fewer crashes, but
still, Word "stops unexpectedly" very often. (I have set the AutoSave
in preferences to 2 minutes because of this.)

...you have empirical evidence that this is dangerous by now...

I need a program like CopyPaste or IClip - in Windows, I used ClipMate,
a great program, but not made for Mac - because I often need to refer
back to things I've deleted in the course of creating a manuscript,
whether or not I've shut down the computer between sessions, or
regardless of how long ago I deleted it.

I really think you are working dangerously. Asking two or more programs
that have never been properly introduced to keep conversing via a
complex data structure like a multi-panel clipboard for weeks on end
across re-boots, crashes and all is asking for trouble.

Word's Clipboard is
inadequate; it doesn't hold enough,

Huh? I frequently stick 500 page documents in the Word clipboard?

and isn't there by default, Huh? It's always there.
and
must be visible onscreen in order to work.

Oh, you mean *that* one. I thought they threw it away. It is *scary*. I
definitely wouldn't use that unless I needed an excuse for not meeting
a deadline.

These programs work in the
background, and just store the things you delete, in a way you can
control.

You have proven otherwise have you not?

Is there anyway of working with one of these programs in a way that
doesn't cause Word to react with pique and shut down? Is there one
that might not cause the shut-down?

This you might think a bit Neanderthal, but what is wrong with a
separate Word document or two for parking deletions? I seldom juggle
with so many balls in the air as you seem to, and I find that simply
leaving a heap of dregs hanging about at the end of the working doc
works well for me.
Cmd-opt-z is a useful shortcut for leaping between recent areas of work.
and cmd-~ for leaping between windows.
Another way of working is to run with track changes on, tentatively
deleting stuff, then accepting changes when you are settled. That has
the advantage of holding the deletions in their original context, which
for my feeble brain is a useful memory jog.

Thanks for the help I am coming to depend upon.

Not much help, I'm afraid. More like an argument. ;-)
You'd never catch me using any add-in toy for serious work that I did
not want to lose, with any application, not just Word.

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Despite Elliott's justified concerns , I do understand your desire to use
this kind of haxie (since I use one myself!).

It's called Jumpcut (<http://jumpcut.sourceforge.net/>) and I've only had it
for a short time. So far no problems but I haven't been using Word
extensively lately. So no promises. It works with all applications and I
like it a lot.

Beth

 

[Clive Huggan]

We look forward to helping you in your impending desperation then, Beth!

Live not under temptation to live so dangerously ...

Wanton hussy that *I* was, I flirted with iClip once. Never again...

CH
===

 

[drgooply]

Well, CopyPaste, or IClip, or, in Windows, Clipmate, these are not
"add-on toys", but rather essential tools for writing. I would far
prefer if it were built in to Word, but it is not. As I understand
the Word Clipboard, when you close the session, the clips disappear.
And when I said it doesn't hold a lot, I'm not referring to page count,
but rather the number of clips.
When I am writing at the computer, I am composing, and it's a constant
give and take; I'll write something, take it out, change my mind, put
it back, use part of it, use it later ... this isn't "juggling", this
is creative writing, and I can't imagine writing any other way. Using
two windows makes it too hard to find things, they're all jumbled into
one document; that wouldn't work.
You make it sound as if I am playing in traffic. Word unexpectedly
quits, and it is annoying, but this is why I autosave every two
minutes.
Am I really doing something as dangerous as you say? I have been
writing on a Mac for about four or five years now. I miss ClipMate
terribly - about the only thing I miss about Windows - and although I
am discouraged to hear that what seems to me something perfectly
reasonable and simple is playing with fire, the truth is, that although
Word has Quit often, I have not lost any more than a minute or two's
worth of work, if that. Is there really no way to keep Word from
quitting using one of these - I don't know what a "haxie" is, but is
that what I'm using?
Thank you.

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi:

What *I* used to do was start another document named "Deleted" and save it.

Instead of deleting things, I would just drag them to the top of the Deleted
document and save.

When the deleted document started taking too long to save, I would re-name
it and start another one. So I would end a project with every dot and comma
that ever existed in it, either in the finished version or in the deleted
files.

Cheers

I read with interest the thread about frequent Word crashes, and the
person who posted that she too was having the same problem, and the
suggestion she start a new thread. I too have had frequent Word
crashes, and hadn't realized that mine too are related to cutting text,
until I'd read the thread, and realized that's what they all had in
common. (I used to think it was because I was running iTunes or
something like it simultaneously, but that is not the case.) It
happens when I control X text. I too use a program, in this case
CopyPaste, which probably comes between Word and the OS, or whatever
Word needs to be in direct contact with. Before CopyPaste, I used
IClip, but had frequent crashes. CopyPaste caused fewer crashes, but
still, Word "stops unexpectedly" very often. (I have set the AutoSave
in preferences to 2 minutes because of this.)
I need a program like CopyPaste or IClip - in Windows, I used ClipMate,
a great program, but not made for Mac - because I often need to refer
back to things I've deleted in the course of creating a manuscript,
whether or not I've shut down the computer between sessions, or
regardless of how long ago I deleted it. Word's Clipboard is
inadequate; it doesn't hold enough, and isn't there by default, and
must be visible onscreen in order to work. These programs work in the
background, and just store the things you delete, in a way you can
control.
Is there anyway of working with one of these programs in a way that
doesn't cause Word to react with pique and shut down? Is there one
that might not cause the shut-down?
Thanks for the help I am coming to depend upon.
DrG

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Well, CopyPaste, or IClip, or, in Windows, Clipmate, these are not
"add-on toys", but rather essential tools for writing.

If they were created as such, they would cost a lot more "System
Programming" sometimes referred to as "Mission Critical" programming, is a
whole order of magnitude more expensive than widget development.

Am I really doing something as dangerous as you say?

Yes. These things all rely on intercepting "Events", signals the Operating
System uses to communicate between applications; or on directly reading the
memory of other applications.

This is a technique better described as "Hacking" than "Programming". And
yes, what you are using is referred to on the Mac platform as a "Haxie" for
that very reason.

This is the computer equivalent of driving too fast. We all do it, usually
we get away with it, and sometimes it kills someone. Doesn't stop us...

Cheers

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[CyberTaz]

I've been watching this thread intently because I always enjoy a good
debate, but have to admit that I'm a little confused by the general
referencing of the term "clipboard"... specifically a "Word clipboard". On
the Mac I don't know of any such thing, can't seem to find it, nor is there
any reference to it in Word Help or any other material I've searched. there
is an Office Clipboard in PC Office that has some of the "shortcomings"
cited in the thread, but - AFAIK - Mac Office doesn't have a comparable
feature. If it *does* please point me in the right direction

OTOH - Are we actually referring to the *Scrapbook* feature? If so, there
are a number of misconceptions that it may help to clarify. It is quite
different than a 'clipboard' and offers many of the organizational features
of the haxies that try to "one-up" it... especially if used in conjunction
with the Project Center.

 

[drgooply]

You are right. The Clipboard feature I was talking about was in Word
X, not Word 2004. I don't have experience using the Scrapbook feature.
When I upgraded, I looked at it briefly, but it seemed more
complicated than I needed. (I don't really need to use it in any other
Office program.) But if you tell me that it can replicate what
CopyPaste does without causing word to "unexpectedly quit", I'd be
interested to know about it.
Thank you.

 

[CyberTaz]

Ah - that clarifies the issue a great deal. I did virtually nothing in
Office X based on some insights passed on from others circa the time it was
introduced. Instead I continued to *use* 2001 then moved directly into 2004
when it arrived. IIRC, the "clipboard" in X was similar to the Office
Clipboard on the PC, which I find to be an aggravating annoyance

The Scrapbook is a completely different tool for the purpose of storing
cut/copied (not *deleted*) material of any type... text, graphics, complete
docs. The items are stored indefinitely & can be reinserted as frequently as
necessary. I suppose you could call it a variation on AutoText with
organizational tools, but available in any of the Office apps. AFAIK, there
is no limit to the item size or number of items it can hold. In fact, I
believe that is what Elliott was referring to when he wrote "Huh? I
frequently stick 500 page documents in the Word clipboard?" (although I
don't mean to speak on his behalf).

It also allows the items to be organized categorically, sorted in several
different ways, can be used selectively or set to automatically capture
*all* cuts/copies & retains the items even if you shut down the Mac. The one
"limitation" accurately cited in your post is that it does have to be
displayed in order to be active. That's a minor annoyance because it can be
resized small enough to prevent it being much of an imposition.

Rather than going into lengthier detail here, I'd suggest you take a look at
it in Word Help - just search on the keyword 'scrapbook' & follow the links.
You'll find some other features as well. It may be sufficient for what I
understand your wants to be. I admit I have not used it in as demanding a
fashion as you describe, but I have not had issues with it nor have I seen
any derogatory reports from disgruntled users in the newsgroups - which
_may_ affirm it's reliability or simply indicate that it is one of those
"well-kept" secrets that hasn't had much of a workout ;-) Perhaps some of
the others have something to offer on that.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Ah - that clarifies the issue a great deal.

Yes, the scales fall from mine eyes.

"The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names"
-- Chinese proverb

CH
===

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Okay. I just opened a copy of Clive's "Bend Word to your Will" because it's
about the largest, most complicated document I have on this computer . I
used Jumpcut to paste both cut and copied sections of text ranging from a
couple lines to a couple pages. Word never crashed once.

All text pasted as plain text and all borders, etc., were lost but that's
okay.

In the short time I have had this application, it has already saved me tons
of time and I wouldn't like to be without it at this point. As far as I'm
concerned, a haxie is only a bad thing when it doesn't work or causes
problems. So far, this one works and doesn't cause any problems!

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>