WORD, Frontpage, Publisher, Office Products -- making webpages / c

[Lifesnadir]

A group I'm in has always said Word makes terrible code. And if a Word doc
is copied into Frontpage, it carries Word code into the Frontpage webpage,
making confusing code bloat.

Another person says ANY Office Program USES Frontpage to OUTPUT ANY file
made in ANY Office program (saved to html)... and therefore, the CODE always
remains the SAME, that there is no difference in the coding of Word, or
Publisher, or Frontpage. She says since Frontpage was bundled with Office
(at one point), ALL Office programs USE Frontpage to output the code.

Is it true or false that ANY MS program uses Frontpage (FULL program) to
OUTPUT to HTML or webpages (made in another MS Program other than Frontpage)?
--AND...OR--
Is it true or false that ANY MS Program uses just SOME Frontpage Component
or Bots to OUTPUT to HTML or webpages?


Others in the group say:
1. Publisher is worse for webpages than is Word (re: code bloat).
2. Word is worse for webpages than Frontpage (re: code bloat).
3. Frontpage is better than writing webpages in Excel, Publisher, Word, etc.
(re: code bloat).
4. No matter which MS Program, if you COPY an existing text TO Frontpage, it
will CARRY in ALL code the other MS program made (and make even more code
bloat that will mix with Frontpage's coding problems).

"Everyone" in the group says Excel causes the worst code bloat, then
Publisher, then Word, then Frontpage.

I use Frontpage and LIKE it -- it helped me learn coding by looking at
Design and HTML views. But, I'd like to know who is right in the argument I
described? Every web site talking about "bloat," writers give HUGE byte
sizes for Publisher, Excel, and Word, and say if a person uses Frontpage,
they should be aware to learn how to write code themselves too.

Please help me solve this argument. Can someone explain how the different
Office programs interact with each other regarding web page making?

Thank you!
Lifes

 

[Trevor Lawrence]

I'll try to answer the questions/reply to statements made

1. Publisher is worse for webpages than is Word (re: code bloat).

Pulisher is worse than FP and Word is worse than FP. Their comparative
"worseness" doesn't really matter

2. Word is worse for webpages than Frontpage (re: code bloat).
YES

3. Frontpage is better than writing webpages in Excel, Publisher, Word,
etc.
(re: code bloat).
YES

4. No matter which MS Program, if you COPY an existing text TO Frontpage,
it
will CARRY in ALL code the other MS program made (and make even more code
bloat that will mix with Frontpage's coding problems).

YES, more or less

The best way to copy text from WORD, etc is to copy it into Notepad. This
will remove ALL formatting, extra code, etc.

Then copy the text from NotePad into FrontPage

"Everyone" in the group says Excel causes the worst code bloat, then
Publisher, then Word, then Frontpage.

I'll let others adjudicate on this one, Let's just say, if you don't do it
with any of them, (except FP or the copy method above) then you won't need
to know which is worst.

One coudl argue about whether FP is better or worse than other products,
e.g. Dreamweaver, but as far as I can tell, that wasn't part of your query.

I use Frontpage and LIKE it -- it helped me learn coding by looking at
Design and HTML views. But, I'd like to know who is right in the argument
I
described? Every web site talking about "bloat," writers give HUGE byte
sizes for Publisher, Excel, and Word, and say if a person uses Frontpage,
they should be aware to learn how to write code themselves too.

I would say that one of the betters things about FrontPage is the access to
the HTML code that it generates. Once one has learnt what the HTML does and
how to write it, one can then use it as an HTML editor and web site
puiblisher.

 

[Ronx]

Trevor has answered some of your questions - I will say he right on all
counts, except that I would place Publisher as the worst, the others can
be salvaged if you are prepared to put in a few hours or days work.
With very few exceptions any HTML produced by Publisher will only render
correctly in Internet Explorer and cannot be edited unless you want to
spend months with graphic editors and rewriting the text. Even
PowerPoint is better than Publisher for HTML generation.

Office programs do NOT use FrontPage for producing HTML (the HTML would
be better if they did) - but FrontPage does use Office components for
menus and VML graphics (VML should be avoided - it is extremely bloated
and only works in Internet Explorer). Office programs do use FrontPage
extensions for publishing, but for no other purpose.


If the word document is fairly simple - Headings and body text, no
complex tables or columns - then you can produce fairly clean HTML from
it:

Save the Word document (if using Word 2007, save as a 97-2003 .doc, not
..docx),
Open FrontPage, open the website and create a new page
Open Windows Explorer and browse to the Word document - do not open the
document.
Drag the document onto the open page in FrontPage.

The result is fairly clean HTML, with almost none of the usual Word
bloat you get with copy/paste or Save As HTML.

Unfortunately, this method does not work with other Office Programs.


My experience with FrontPage (I have used every version since FP95) is
that FP2000 onwards can produce clean, unbloated code. FP2003 is the
best at this, and FP2000 is better than FP2002. You do need to learn
some HTML, and a knowledge of CSS will reduce the code used considerably
- this applies to any HTML editor.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.

http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

 

[Tina Clarke]

Will other MVPs please reply to this thread..... the disscusstion on the
list in question ... was carried forward by myself I've been asking in the
Word mvp ng but got no replies, asked my lead and she has not replied but I
will send another email to both leads and start bugging people if i don't
get an answer....

So help me out and confirm and answer the questions ... even if they have
been answered.please....

The main two questions are

1. What produces the html output of word and publisher?
2. Confirm that fp (any version) does not produce the same KIND of bload
that word and publisher do.

Thanks Tina

 

[Rob Giordano \(Crash\)]

I'm not sure, but they all look different to me. The following code for the
same simple webpage was created in FP 2003, Pub 2007, Word 2003.

FP----------------------->

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 6.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<title>This is a FP web test page</title>
</head>
<body>
<p><font face="Verdana">This is a FP web test page</font></p>
<p>
<img border="0"
src="../../../Local%20Settings/Temporary%20Internet%20Files/Content.IE5/UH9K1TK0/MCj04362960000[1].png"
width="144" height="144"></p>

</body>

</html>

PUBLISHER 2007 FILTERED HTML------------------------------------>

<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"
xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<link rel=File-List href="Pub%20Web%20Page%20Filtered_files/filelist.xml">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
b\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
..shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<title>Page Title</title>
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin-right:0pt;
text-indent:0pt;
margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:9.0pt;
line-height:125%;
text-align:left;
font-family:Verdana;
font-size:7.619pt;
color:black;}
ol
{margin-top:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:-2197in;}
ul
{margin-top:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:-2197in;}
@page
{size:8.0302in 11.0in;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="3075" fill="f" fillcolor="white [7]"
strokecolor="black [0]">
<v:fill color="white [7]" color2="white [7]" on="f"/>
<v:stroke color="black [0]" color2="white [7]">
<o:left v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
<o:top v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
<o:right v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
<o:bottom v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
<o:column v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
</v:stroke>
<v:shadow color="#ccc [4]"/>
<v:textbox inset="2.88pt,2.88pt,2.88pt,2.88pt"/>
<o:colormenu v:ext="edit" fillcolor="#c90 [1]" strokecolor="black [0]"
shadowcolor="#ccc [4]"/>
</o:shapedefaults><o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/>
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>

<body style='margin:0'>

<div style='position:absolute;width:7.-71in;height:48.0156in'>
<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t202" coordsize="21600,21600"
o:spt="202"
path="m,l,21600r21600,l21600,xe">
<v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/>
<vath gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/>
</v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_s1025" type="#_x0000_t202"
style='position:absolute;
left:0;top:0;width:570pt;height:48in;z-index:1;mso-wrap-distance-left:2.88pt; mso-wrap-distance-top:2.88pt;mso-wrap-distance-right:2.88pt; mso-wrap-distance-bottom:2.88pt' filled="f" fillcolor="white [7]"stroked="f" strokecolor="black [0]" o:cliptowrap="t"> <v:fill color2="white [7]"/> <v:stroke color2="white [7]"> <o:left v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> <o:top v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> <o:right v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> <o:bottom v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> <o:column v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> </v:stroke> <v:shadow color="#ccc [4]"/> <vath insetpenok="f"/> <v:textbox style='mso-column-margin:2mm'inset="2.88pt,2.88pt,2.88pt,2.88pt"/></v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><span style='position:absolute;z-index:1;left:0px;top:0px;width:760px;height:4608px'><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr> <td width=760 height=4608 style='vertical-align:top'><![endif]> <div v:shape="_x0000_s1025" style='padding:2.88pt 2.88pt 2.88pt 2.88pt' class=shape> <p class=MsoNormal><span lang=en-USstyle='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:125%; font-family:Verdana;language:en-US'>This is a test webpage-Publisher</span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span lang=en-USstyle='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:125%; font-family:Verdana;language:en-US'>&nbsp;</span></p> </div> <![if !vml]></td> </tr></table></span><![endif]><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:rect id="_x0000_s1026"style='position:absolute; left:18pt;top:51pt;width:143.98pt;height:143.98pt;z-index:2; mso-wrap-distance-left:2.88pt;mso-wrap-distance-top:2.88pt; mso-wrap-distance-right:2.88pt;mso-wrap-distance-bottom:2.88pt' oreferrelative="t" filled="f" fillcolor="white [7]" stroked="f" strokecolor="black [0]" o:cliptowrap="t"> <v:fill color2="white [7]"/> <v:stroke color2="white [7]"> <o:left v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> <o:top v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> <o:right v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> <o:bottom v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> <o:column v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> </v:stroke> <v:imagedata src="Pub%20Web%20Page%20Filtered_files/image295.png"o:title="MCj04362960000[2]"/> <v:shadow color="#ccc [4]"/> <vath o:extrusionok="f" insetpenok="f"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/></v:rect><![endif]--><![if !vml]><span style='position:absolute;z-index:2;left:24px;top:68px;width:192px;height:192px'><img width=192 height=192src="Pub%20Web%20Page%20Filtered_files/image2951.png"v:shapes="_x0000_s1026"></span><![endif]></div></body>WORD HTML---------------------------------><html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:word"xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"><meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel=File-List href="This%20is%20a%20test%20page_filelist.xml"><link rel=Edit-Time-Data href="This%20is%20a%20test%20page_editdata.mso"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}</style><![endif]--><title>This is a test page - HTML Word</title><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <oocumentProperties> <o:Author>Rob Giordano</o:Author> <o:LastAuthor>Rob Giordano</o:LastAuthor> <o:Revision>1</o:Revision> <o:TotalTime>1</o:TotalTime> <o:Created>2008-03-09T17:07:00Z</o:Created> <o:LastSaved>2008-03-09T17:08:00Z</o:LastSaved> <oages>1</oages> <o:Words>5</o:Words> <o:Characters>31</o:Characters> <o:Company>Gio Com</o:Company> <o:Lines>1</o:Lines> <oaragraphs>1</oaragraphs> <o:CharactersWithSpaces>35</o:CharactersWithSpaces> <o:Version>11.9999</o:Version> </oocumentProperties> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <ooNotOrganizeInFolder/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <wunctuationKerning/> <wrawingGridHorizontalSpacing>6 pt</wrawingGridHorizontalSpacing> <wisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery>2</wisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery> <wisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery>2</wisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif]--><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Century Gothic"; panose-1:2 11 5 2 2 2 2 2 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:647 0 0 0 159 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}p.MsoHeader, li.MsoHeader, div.MsoHeader {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; tab-stops:center 3.0in right 6.0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}p.MsoFooter, li.MsoFooter, div.MsoFooter {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; tab-stops:center 3.0in right 6.0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} /* Page Definitions */ @page {mso-footnote-separator:url("This%20is%20a%20test%20page_header.htm") fs; mso-footnote-continuation-separator:url("This%20is%20a%20test%20page_header.htm") fcs; mso-endnote-separator:url("This%20is%20a%20test%20page_header.htm") es; mso-endnote-continuation-separator:url("This%20is%20a%20test%20page_header.htm") ecs;}@page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in .9in 1.0in .9in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;}div.Section1 {page:Section1;}--></style><!--[if gte mso 10]><style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;}</style><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="2050"/></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US style='tab-interval:.5in'><div class=Section1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic"'>This is a testpage -<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>HTMLWord<o></o></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"CenturyGothic"'><o>&nbsp;</o></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75"coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" oreferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <vath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/></v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75"style='width:159.75pt; height:159.75pt'> <v:imagedata src="This%20is%20a%20test%20page_image001.wmz" o:title=""/></v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><img width=213 height=213src="This%20is%20a%20test%20page_image002.gif"v:shapes="_x0000_i1025"><![endif]><spanstyle='font-family:"Century Gothic"'><o></o></span></p></div></body></html>--~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Rob GiordanoMicrosoft MVP Expression"Tina Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in messageWill other MVPs please reply to this thread..... the disscusstion on the| list in question ... was carried forward by myself I've been asking in the| Word mvp ng but got no replies, asked my lead and she has not replied butI| will send another email to both leads and start bugging people if i don't| get an answer....|| So help me out and confirm and answer the questions ... even if they have| been answered.please....|| The main two questions are|| 1. What produces the html output of word and publisher?| 2. Confirm that fp (any version) does not produce the same KIND of bload| that word and publisher do.|| Thanks Tina|||||||| "Lifesnadir" <[email protected]> wrote in message| >A group I'm in has always said Word makes terrible code. And if a Worddoc| > is copied into Frontpage, it carries Word code into the Frontpagewebpage,| > making confusing code bloat.| >| > Another person says ANY Office Program USES Frontpage to OUTPUT ANY file| > made in ANY Office program (saved to html)... and therefore, the CODE| > always| > remains the SAME, that there is no difference in the coding of Word, or| > Publisher, or Frontpage. She says since Frontpage was bundled withOffice| > (at one point), ALL Office programs USE Frontpage to output the code.| >| > Is it true or false that ANY MS program uses Frontpage (FULL program) to| > OUTPUT to HTML or webpages (made in another MS Program other than| > Frontpage)?| > --AND...OR--| > Is it true or false that ANY MS Program uses just SOME FrontpageComponent| > or Bots to OUTPUT to HTML or webpages?| >| >| > Others in the group say:| > 1. Publisher is worse for webpages than is Word (re: code bloat).| > 2. Word is worse for webpages than Frontpage (re: code bloat).| > 3. Frontpage is better than writing webpages in Excel, Publisher, Word,| > etc.| > (re: code bloat).| > 4. No matter which MS Program, if you COPY an existing text TOFrontpage,| > it| > will CARRY in ALL code the other MS program made (and make even morecode| > bloat that will mix with Frontpage's coding problems).| >| > "Everyone" in the group says Excel causes the worst code bloat, then| > Publisher, then Word, then Frontpage.| >| > I use Frontpage and LIKE it -- it helped me learn coding by looking at| > Design and HTML views. But, I'd like to know who is right in theargument| > I| > described? Every web site talking about "bloat," writers give HUGE byte| > sizes for Publisher, Excel, and Word, and say if a person usesFrontpage,| > they should be aware to learn how to write code themselves too.| >| > Please help me solve this argument. Can someone explain how thedifferent| > Office programs interact with each other regarding web page making?| >| > Thank you!| > Lifes|

 

[Rob Giordano \(Crash\)]

sorry the Word one got concatenated with Publisher...but the both are a mess
anyway.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression





| I'm not sure, but they all look different to me. The following code for
the
| same simple webpage was created in FP 2003, Pub 2007, Word 2003.
|
| FP----------------------->
|
| <html>
| <head>
| <meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us">
| <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 6.0">
| <meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
| <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
| <title>This is a FP web test page</title>
| </head>
| <body>
| <p><font face="Verdana">This is a FP web test page</font></p>
| <p>
| <img border="0"
|
src="../../../Local%20Settings/Temporary%20Internet%20Files/Content.IE5/UH9K1TK0/MCj04362960000[1].png"
| width="144" height="144"></p>
|
| </body>
|
| </html>
|
| PUBLISHER 2007 FILTERED HTML------------------------------------>
|
| <html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
| xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"
| xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882"
| xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
|
| <head>
| <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
| <link rel=File-List href="Pub%20Web%20Page%20Filtered_files/filelist.xml">
| <!--[if !mso]>
| <style>
| v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
| o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
| b\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
| .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
| </style>
| <![endif]-->
| <title>Page Title</title>
| <style>
| <!--
| /* Font Definitions */
| @font-face
| {font-family:Verdana;
| panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
| /* Style Definitions */
| p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
| {margin-right:0pt;
| text-indent:0pt;
| margin-top:0pt;
| margin-bottom:9.0pt;
| line-height:125%;
| text-align:left;
| font-family:Verdana;
| font-size:7.619pt;
| color:black;}
| ol
| {margin-top:0in;
| margin-bottom:0in;
| margin-left:-2197in;}
| ul
| {margin-top:0in;
| margin-bottom:0in;
| margin-left:-2197in;}
| @page
| {size:8.0302in 11.0in;}
| -->
| </style>
| <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
| <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="3075" fill="f" fillcolor="white
[7]"
| strokecolor="black [0]">
| <v:fill color="white [7]" color2="white [7]" on="f"/>
| <v:stroke color="black [0]" color2="white [7]">
| <o:left v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
| <o:top v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
| <o:right v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
| <o:bottom v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
| <o:column v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
| </v:stroke>
| <v:shadow color="#ccc [4]"/>
| <v:textbox inset="2.88pt,2.88pt,2.88pt,2.88pt"/>
| <o:colormenu v:ext="edit" fillcolor="#c90 [1]" strokecolor="black [0]"
| shadowcolor="#ccc [4]"/>
| </o:shapedefaults><o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
| <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/>
| </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
| </head>
|
| <body style='margin:0'>
|
| <div style='position:absolute;width:7.-71in;height:48.0156in'>
| <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t202" coordsize="21600,21600"
| o:spt="202"
| path="m,l,21600r21600,l21600,xe">
| <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/>
| <vath gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/>
| </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_s1025" type="#_x0000_t202"
| style='position:absolute;
|
left:0;top:0;width:570pt;height:48in;z-index:1;mso-wrap-distance-left:2.88pt;
mso-wrap-distance-top:2.88pt;mso-wrap-distance-right:2.88pt;
mso-wrap-distance-bottom:2.88pt' filled="f" fillcolor="white [7]"stroked="f"
strokecolor="black [0]" o:cliptowrap="t"> <v:fill color2="white [7]"/>
<v:stroke color2="white [7]"> <o:left v:ext="view" color="black [0]"
color2="white [7]"/> <o:top v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white
[7]"/> <o:right v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
<o:bottom v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> <o:column
v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> </v:stroke> <v:shadow
color="#ccc [4]"/> <vath insetpenok="f"/> <v:textbox
style='mso-column-margin:2mm'inset="2.88pt,2.88pt,2.88pt,2.88pt"/></v:shape><![endif]--><![if
!vml]><span
style='position:absolute;z-index:1;left:0px;top:0px;width:760px;height:4608px'><table
cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr> <td width=760 height=4608
style='vertical-align:top'><![endif]> <div v:shape="_x0000_s1025"
style='padding:2.88pt 2.88pt 2.88pt 2.88pt' class=shape> <p
class=MsoNormal><span lang=en-USstyle='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:125%;
font-family:Verdana;language:en-US'>This is a test
webpage-Publisher</span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span
lang=en-USstyle='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:125%;
font-family:Verdana;language:en-US'>&nbsp;</span></p> </div> <![if
!vml]></td> </tr></table></span><![endif]><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:rect
id="_x0000_s1026"style='position:absolute;
left:18pt;top:51pt;width:143.98pt;height:143.98pt;z-index:2;
mso-wrap-distance-left:2.88pt;mso-wrap-distance-top:2.88pt;
mso-wrap-distance-right:2.88pt;mso-wrap-distance-bottom:2.88pt'
oreferrelative="t" filled="f" fillcolor="white [7]" stroked="f"
strokecolor="black [0]" o:cliptowrap="t"> <v:fill color2="white [7]"/>
<v:stroke color2="white [7]"> <o:left v:ext="view" color="black [0]"
color2="white [7]"/> <o:top v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white
[7]"/> <o:right v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/>
<o:bottom v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> <o:column
v:ext="view" color="black [0]" color2="white [7]"/> </v:stroke> <v:imagedata
src="Pub%20Web%20Page%20Filtered_files/image295.png"o:title="MCj04362960000[2]"/>
<v:shadow color="#ccc [4]"/> <vath o:extrusionok="f" insetpenok="f"/>
<o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/></v:rect><![endif]--><![if !vml]><span
style='position:absolute;z-index:2;left:24px;top:68px;width:192px;height:192px'><img
width=192
height=192src="Pub%20Web%20Page%20Filtered_files/image2951.png"v:shapes="_x0000_s1026"></span><![endif]></div></body>WORD
HTML---------------------------------><html
xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:word"xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta
http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"><meta
name=ProgId content=Word.Document><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft
Word 11"><meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 11"><link
rel=File-List href="This%20is%20a%20test%20page_filelist.xml"><link
rel=Edit-Time-Data href="This%20is%20a%20test%20page_editdata.mso"><!--[if
!mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}</style><![endif]--><title>This is a test
page - HTML Word</title><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <oocumentProperties>
<o:Author>Rob Giordano</o:Author> <o:LastAuthor>Rob Giordano</o:LastAuthor>
<o:Revision>1</o:Revision> <o:TotalTime>1</o:TotalTime>
<o:Created>2008-03-09T17:07:00Z</o:Created>
<o:LastSaved>2008-03-09T17:08:00Z</o:LastSaved> <oages>1</oages>
<o:Words>5</o:Words> <o:Characters>31</o:Characters> <o:Company>Gio
Com</o:Company> <o:Lines>1</o:Lines> <oaragraphs>1</oaragraphs>
<o:CharactersWithSpaces>35</o:CharactersWithSpaces>
<o:Version>11.9999</o:Version> </oocumentProperties>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <ooNotOrganizeInFolder/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument> <wunctuationKerning/> <wrawingGridHorizontalSpacing>6
pt</wrawingGridHorizontalSpacing>
<wisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery>2</wisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery>
<wisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery>2</wisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery>
<w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>
<w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent>
<w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>
<w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/>
<w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/>
</w:Compatibility>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
</w:WordDocument></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles
DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156">
</w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif]--><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */
@font-face {font-family:"Century Gothic"; panose-1:2 11 5 2 2 2 2 2 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:647 0 0 0 159 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal,
li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";}p.MsoHeader, li.MsoHeader, div.MsoHeader {margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; tab-stops:center 3.0in
right 6.0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}p.MsoFooter, li.MsoFooter,
div.MsoFooter {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan; tab-stops:center 3.0in right 6.0in;
font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} /* Page Definitions */ @page
{mso-footnote-separator:url("This%20is%20a%20test%20page_header.htm") fs;
mso-footnote-continuation-separator:url("This%20is%20a%20test%20page_header.htm")
fcs; mso-endnote-separator:url("This%20is%20a%20test%20page_header.htm") es;
mso-endnote-continuation-separator:url("This%20is%20a%20test%20page_header.htm")
ecs;}@page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in .9in 1.0in .9in;
mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}div.Section1 {page:Section1;}--></style><!--[if gte mso
10]><style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400;
mso-fareast-language:#0400;
mso-bidi-language:#0400;}</style><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="2050"/></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte
mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/>
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US
style='tab-interval:.5in'><div class=Section1><p class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-family:"Century Gothic"'>This is a testpage -<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>HTMLWord<o></o></span></p><p
class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-family:"CenturyGothic"'><o>&nbsp;</o></span></p><p
class=MsoNormal><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype
id="_x0000_t75"coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" oreferrelative="t"
path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke
joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/>
<v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/>
<v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600
pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f
eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f
eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/>
</v:formulas> <vath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t"
o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit"
aspectratio="t"/></v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025"
type="#_x0000_t75"style='width:159.75pt; height:159.75pt'> <v:imagedata
src="This%20is%20a%20test%20page_image001.wmz"
o:title=""/></v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><img width=213
height=213src="This%20is%20a%20test%20page_image002.gif"v:shapes="_x0000_i1025"><![endif]><spanstyle='font-family:"Century
Gothic"'><o></o></span></p></div></body></html>--~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Rob
GiordanoMicrosoft MVP Expression"Tina Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote in messageWill other MVPs please reply to this thread..... the disscusstion on the|
list in question ... was carried forward by myself I've been asking in the|
Word mvp ng but got no replies, asked my lead and she has not replied butI|
will send another email to both leads and start bugging people if i don't|
get an answer....|| So help me out and confirm and answer the questions ...
even if they have| been answered.please....|| The main two questions are||
1. What produces the html output of word and publisher?| 2. Confirm that fp
(any version) does not produce the same KIND of bload| that word and
publisher do.|| Thanks Tina|||||||| "Lifesnadir"
>A group I'm in
has always said Word makes terrible code. And if a Worddoc| > is copied
into Frontpage, it carries Word code into the Frontpagewebpage,| > making
confusing code bloat.| >| > Another person says ANY Office Program USES
Frontpage to OUTPUT ANY file| > made in ANY Office program (saved to
html)... and therefore, the CODE| > always| > remains the SAME, that there
is no difference in the coding of Word, or| > Publisher, or Frontpage. She
says since Frontpage was bundled withOffice| > (at one point), ALL Office
programs USE Frontpage to output the code.| >| > Is it true or false that
ANY MS program uses Frontpage (FULL program) to| > OUTPUT to HTML or
webpages (made in another MS Program other than| > Frontpage)?|

--AND...OR--| > Is it true or false that ANY MS Program uses just SOME

FrontpageComponent| > or Bots to OUTPUT to HTML or webpages?| >| >| >
Others in the group say:| > 1. Publisher is worse for webpages than is Word
(re: code bloat).| > 2. Word is worse for webpages than Frontpage (re: code
bloat).| > 3. Frontpage is better than writing webpages in Excel, Publisher,
Word,| > etc.| > (re: code bloat).| > 4. No matter which MS Program, if you
COPY an existing text TOFrontpage,| > it| > will CARRY in ALL code the other
MS program made (and make even morecode| > bloat that will mix with
Frontpage's coding problems).| >| > "Everyone" in the group says Excel
causes the worst code bloat, then| > Publisher, then Word, then Frontpage.|

| > I use Frontpage and LIKE it -- it helped me learn coding by looking at|
Design and HTML views. But, I'd like to know who is right in theargument|
I| > described? Every web site talking about "bloat," writers give HUGE

byte| > sizes for Publisher, Excel, and Word, and say if a person
usesFrontpage,| > they should be aware to learn how to write code themselves
too.| >| > Please help me solve this argument. Can someone explain how
thedifferent| > Office programs interact with each other regarding web page
making?| >| > Thank you!| > Lifes|
|

 

[Steve Easton]

In line

A group I'm in has always said Word makes terrible code. And if a Word doc
is copied into Frontpage, it carries Word code into the Frontpage webpage,
making confusing code bloat.

Another person says ANY Office Program USES Frontpage to OUTPUT ANY file
made in ANY Office program (saved to html)... and therefore, the CODE always
remains the SAME, that there is no difference in the coding of Word, or
Publisher, or Frontpage. She says since Frontpage was bundled with Office
(at one point), ALL Office programs USE Frontpage to output the code.

Not true. Each office program has its own html editing libraries.
FP uses fpeditax.dll ( Microsoft FrontPage Editor ) and
FPCUTL.DLL ( Microsoft Office FrontPage Client Utility Library )
among others.

Is it true or false that ANY MS program uses Frontpage (FULL program) to
OUTPUT to HTML or webpages (made in another MS Program other than Frontpage)?
--AND...OR--
Is it true or false that ANY MS Program uses just SOME Frontpage Component
or Bots to OUTPUT to HTML or webpages?

No it is not true, because the above libraries are application specific.


--

Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
FP Cleaner
http://www.95isalive.com/fixes/fpclean.htm
Hit Me FP
http://www.95isalive.com/fixes/HitMeFP.htm

 

[Ronx]

For question 2, See http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/tests/office-compare/
This points to pages made in Publisher and Word 2007, and FontPage 2003,
produced by copying and pasting text and images from an existing web
page.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.

http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

 

[Murray]

Joining a little late, but to add my voice to what others say...

Is it true or false that ANY MS program uses Frontpage (FULL program) to
OUTPUT to HTML or webpages (made in another MS Program other than
Frontpage)?
FALSE.

Is it true or false that ANY MS Program uses just SOME Frontpage Component
or Bots to OUTPUT to HTML or webpages?
FALSE.

1. Publisher is worse for webpages than is Word (re: code bloat).
TRUE.

2. Word is worse for webpages than Frontpage (re: code bloat).
TRUE.

3. Frontpage is better than writing webpages in Excel, Publisher, Word,
etc.
(re: code bloat).
TRUE.

4. No matter which MS Program, if you COPY an existing text TO Frontpage,
it
will CARRY in ALL code the other MS program made (and make even more code
bloat that will mix with Frontpage's coding problems).
TRUE.

"Everyone" in the group says Excel causes the worst code bloat, then
Publisher, then Word, then Frontpage.

Mostly FALSE. I'd rank it as FP, OFFICE, Publisher in descending order of
HTML quality.

However, "code bloat" is the byword of someone who often is only repeating
what they dimly recall someone else as having said. All of the code in the
HTML written by WORD is important for OFFICE functionality. It's completely
meaningless for WEB functionality. You would no more consider using OFFICE
(or worse, Publisher) to build a real website, than you would consider using
a F1 car to drive to work. It's just the wrong tool for the job.