Word needs the font named...

[Art Shotwell]

I'm trying to organize my fonts... I'm new to the Mac and I'd like my fonts
list in Word shorter. I have more than 400 fonts showing up as active. So, I
installed Linotype's FontExplorer X. It appears that it must be running to
actually work. So, when running and I open Word and click on the dropdown
Fonts list, I get the message "Word needs the font named..." and there are
six fonts it wants: Chicago, Venice, Athens, London, Toronto & Cairo
(interesting that they're all city names...but I digress). But, I can't seem
to find these fonts anywhere so I can make sure they're available to Word.
Any suggestions???

 

[Elliott Roper]

I'm trying to organize my fonts... I'm new to the Mac and I'd like my fonts
list in Word shorter. I have more than 400 fonts showing up as active. So, I
installed Linotype's FontExplorer X. It appears that it must be running to
actually work. So, when running and I open Word and click on the dropdown
Fonts list, I get the message "Word needs the font named..." and there are
six fonts it wants: Chicago, Venice, Athens, London, Toronto & Cairo
(interesting that they're all city names...but I digress). But, I can't seem
to find these fonts anywhere so I can make sure they're available to Word.
Any suggestions???

First of all. Welcome to Macintosh, and congratulations on having such
a couth anti-spam address.

I don't know FontExplorer well. You might find OS X's own Font Book
application is more than enough for a measly 400 fonts. ;-)

There you make collections and switch off (disable) all but your
everyday fonts collection. That does the job. And you don't have to
keep it running.

Once you get familiar with Mac Word, you will find yourself using
styles. Then you'll hardly ever open the font menu.

Those fonts named after cities are mostly left overs from ancient
versions of Mac OS. Did you steal some documents from a 1980's exhibit
at a museum?

I don't understand how a freshly installed Word 2004 would ask for
those fonts on a brand new machine. Did the museum miss the Macintosh
straight away?
(OK I jest, don't hit me)

The fonts must be in the document you are editing, or in that dreaded
normal template. Is there some history here?
If yes, and you don't care about the template, chuck it away while Word
is not running. You will find it in ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/

Word makes a shiny new fresh one next time you start. After reading
your other post, it looks like it needs chucking anyway.

There is a lot of arcanity in keeping your fonts tidy, and managing
your user identities wisely on OS X. The two are not unrelated.

It's hard to know where to start. Keep asking questions here. We'll get
there.

In the meantime, in Word, here is a couple of tips for fighting the
font menu scrolling nightmare.
1. Turn off WYSIWYG font menu. It is ugly, wastes space, and ruins
trick 2.
2. Once the font menu is open, start typing the font name. That trick
works in every Mac menu in every application. You'll get down to
Zapfino as soon as you hit z.
OK, 3 tips
3. Dig around in the Word help for the formatting palette. Once you
have that set up to suit your working style, it is a much more
convenient font selector than the menu. It remembers recent fonts and
styles, and offers all kinds of other juicy Word goodness.

I'm starting you off gently here. This is a fairly useful place to ask
stuff like your questions. There are knowledgeable people here, and
quite a few that don't play about as much as I do.

If you don't want to look so green and new and all the next time you
come back here, I do recommend a pass through the MVP's collected heap
information at
http://www.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html

Don't let Word's help get you down. It is a disorganised heap designed
to frustrate and annoy until you get used to its idiosyncratic ways.
And then it is still a pain. The easy way to find something in there is
to know the answer.

 

[Art Shotwell]

First of all. Welcome to Macintosh, and congratulations on having such
a couth anti-spam address.

I don't know FontExplorer well. You might find OS X's own Font Book
application is more than enough for a measly 400 fonts. ;-)

There you make collections and switch off (disable) all but your
everyday fonts collection. That does the job. And you don't have to
keep it running.

Once you get familiar with Mac Word, you will find yourself using
styles. Then you'll hardly ever open the font menu.

Those fonts named after cities are mostly left overs from ancient
versions of Mac OS. Did you steal some documents from a 1980's exhibit
at a museum?

I don't understand how a freshly installed Word 2004 would ask for
those fonts on a brand new machine. Did the museum miss the Macintosh
straight away?
(OK I jest, don't hit me)

The fonts must be in the document you are editing, or in that dreaded
normal template. Is there some history here?
If yes, and you don't care about the template, chuck it away while Word
is not running. You will find it in ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/

Word makes a shiny new fresh one next time you start. After reading
your other post, it looks like it needs chucking anyway.

There is a lot of arcanity in keeping your fonts tidy, and managing
your user identities wisely on OS X. The two are not unrelated.

It's hard to know where to start. Keep asking questions here. We'll get
there.

In the meantime, in Word, here is a couple of tips for fighting the
font menu scrolling nightmare.
1. Turn off WYSIWYG font menu. It is ugly, wastes space, and ruins
trick 2.
2. Once the font menu is open, start typing the font name. That trick
works in every Mac menu in every application. You'll get down to
Zapfino as soon as you hit z.
OK, 3 tips
3. Dig around in the Word help for the formatting palette. Once you
have that set up to suit your working style, it is a much more
convenient font selector than the menu. It remembers recent fonts and
styles, and offers all kinds of other juicy Word goodness.

I'm starting you off gently here. This is a fairly useful place to ask
stuff like your questions. There are knowledgeable people here, and
quite a few that don't play about as much as I do.

If you don't want to look so green and new and all the next time you
come back here, I do recommend a pass through the MVP's collected heap
information at
http://www.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html

Don't let Word's help get you down. It is a disorganised heap designed
to frustrate and annoy until you get used to its idiosyncratic ways.
And then it is still a pain. The easy way to find something in there is
to know the answer.

Thanks for the tips... I do get Word docs from clients. I'm a (small-time)
Web designer and must massage sometimes horrendous copy before putting it on
a Web page. I recognized those fonts as being from old-time Macs... I
remember them from years ago when I worked, briefly, on a Mac system.

I'm thinking that FontBook is just fine, but FontExplore has some nice
features. For some strange reason, I seem to have two FontBooks; one in
Applications, the other in Utilities. The one in Applications refuses to
open... It starts, then closes. The one in Utilities works fine. They seem
to have different icons, but GetInfo shows same info. But, that's another
story.

I do have an after-market Word book. Still learning it. I worked for more
than ten years with Lotus WordPro (in Windows), which I found a very quick,
easy-to-use program.

One other thing: Is the preference in replies to place the reply at the top
or bottom of the original quoted text???

 

[Elliott Roper]

I'm thinking that FontBook is just fine, but FontExplore has some nice
features. For some strange reason, I seem to have two FontBooks; one in
Applications, the other in Utilities. The one in Applications refuses to
open... It starts, then closes. The one in Utilities works fine. They seem
to have different icons, but GetInfo shows same info. But, that's another
story.

I hope it ends well. Try running Disk Utility repair permissions. (OK
all you regulars -- you never thought you'd hear that from me did you?.
Well that is what repair permissions is really for - when a Mac
installer application doesn't run)

I do have an after-market Word book. Still learning it. I worked for more
than ten years with Lotus WordPro (in Windows), which I found a very quick,
easy-to-use program.

OK, then you are ready for Clive's Bend Word...

One other thing: Is the preference in replies to place the reply at the top
or bottom of the original quoted text???

If you are talking to me, at the bottom or in point by point replies
among the discussion, after trimming savagely, leaving just enough to
remind everyone what's going on.

Beth is a top poster, but we all get along. Just go with the style of
the discussion.
And don't sweat it.

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Art:

You're new to Mac OS X and new to Word Mac?

I would recommend that you do not run ANY font manager at all Font
managers can lead to Word crashes, particularly if used vigorously.

I would quit the font manager and leave it off at least until you develop
your expertise with Word and your new Mac. You will save yourself quite a
lot of fiddling and frustration.

I'm a long document specialist, and I don't use a font manager (on either
the Mac or the PC). Elliott's tip about typing the first letter of the font
name is all I need.

Because I tend to visit the font menu precisely ONCE for each font: in order
to define that font into a style. After that, I simply apply the style and
ignore the font completely (if the style is correct, the font is correct, if
the style is wrong who cares what the font is...).

Styles paste nicely into web editors: fonts do not

Cheers

Thanks for the tips... I do get Word docs from clients. I'm a (small-time)
Web designer and must massage sometimes horrendous copy before putting it on
a Web page. I recognized those fonts as being from old-time Macs... I
remember them from years ago when I worked, briefly, on a Mac system.

I'm thinking that FontBook is just fine, but FontExplore has some nice
features. For some strange reason, I seem to have two FontBooks; one in
Applications, the other in Utilities. The one in Applications refuses to
open... It starts, then closes. The one in Utilities works fine. They seem
to have different icons, but GetInfo shows same info. But, that's another
story.

I do have an after-market Word book. Still learning it. I worked for more
than ten years with Lotus WordPro (in Windows), which I found a very quick,
easy-to-use program.

One other thing: Is the preference in replies to place the reply at the top
or bottom of the original quoted text???

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Clive Huggan]

On 9/1/07 10:53 AM, in article
C1C81992.B748%[email protected], "Art Shotwell"

<snip>

Hello Art,

I'm a (small-time)
Web designer and must massage sometimes horrendous copy before putting it on
a Web page.

I wonder whether there is some merit in side-stepping this problem
altogether, by only using your "trusted" fonts?

When I get material from the web or other people I copy it and "paste
special" as unformatted text. It then pastes in with the same
characteristics of the paragraph where you insertion point is in your own
Word document.

I do this dozens / hundreds of times a day, so I use a keyboard shortcut to
save me mousing through the menu. More details are on page 191 of some notes
on the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which
are available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html).

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

I then apply my styles to the text -- for long documents that can seem
daunting but in practice it's quite quick: see page 133 of "Bend Word to
Your Will".

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================
Avoid long delays before your post appears -- use Entourage or newsreader
software -- see http://word.mvps.org/Mac/AccessNewsgroups.html
============================================================

 

[Art Shotwell]

I hope it ends well. Try running Disk Utility repair permissions. (OK
all you regulars -- you never thought you'd hear that from me did you?.
Well that is what repair permissions is really for - when a Mac
installer application doesn't run)

OK, then you are ready for Clive's Bend Word...

If you are talking to me, at the bottom or in point by point replies
among the discussion, after trimming savagely, leaving just enough to
remind everyone what's going on.

Beth is a top poster, but we all get along. Just go with the style of
the discussion.
And don't sweat it.

I did repair disk permission. And, I have plucked Clive's Bend Word from the
I'net. Thanks

 

[Phillip Jones]

As is Phil

Top post is the only way to go in a support list.

Now for average newsgroups bottom posting is fine. Makes it faster
reading the messages you don't have to rehash the old replies. ;-)

I hope it ends well. Try running Disk Utility repair permissions. (OK
all you regulars -- you never thought you'd hear that from me did you?.
Well that is what repair permissions is really for - when a Mac
installer application doesn't run)

OK, then you are ready for Clive's Bend Word...

If you are talking to me, at the bottom or in point by point replies
among the discussion, after trimming savagely, leaving just enough to
remind everyone what's going on.

Beth is a top poster, but we all get along. Just go with the style of
the discussion.
And don't sweat it.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Elliott Roper]

As is Phil

As is what? You deleted the only relevant line. (Beth is a top poster)

Top post is the only way to go in a support list.
Horsesh**!

Now for average newsgroups bottom posting is fine. Makes it faster
reading the messages you don't have to rehash the old replies. ;-)

And you could snip the stuff not relevant to your comment while you are
at it. Which makes it *much* faster for everyone.

<30 lines of irrelevance snipped>

PS. Beth is wonderful. She can top post to me anytime!

<grin>

 

[Phillip Jones]

I left off a little bit at the end of my last sentence " ...Which makes
it *much* faster for everyone" Should read:

which makes it *much* faster for everyone to read support group replies
if top posted. sorry about that.


be careful what you say she might consider you "getting fresh with
her". ;-)

As is what? You deleted the only relevant line. (Beth is a top poster)


And you could snip the stuff not relevant to your comment while you are
at it. Which makes it *much* faster for everyone.

<30 lines of irrelevance snipped>

PS. Beth is wonderful. She can top post to me anytime!

<grin>

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

I service this group on a 12" iBook with the messages displayed in the
Entourage preview pane.

If I don't see the new text in that preview pane, I don't see the text at
all -- I just skip to the next post. I work in several groups: it has to be
a REALLY slow time of year before I slow down enough to scroll them

Cheers

As is what? You deleted the only relevant line. (Beth is a top poster)


And you could snip the stuff not relevant to your comment while you are
at it. Which makes it *much* faster for everyone.

<30 lines of irrelevance snipped>

PS. Beth is wonderful. She can top post to me anytime!

<grin>

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Elliott:

Sure does I have a custom view set up that threads by Subject. The
only one who catches me out are Phillip, who can't resist changing the
subject when he replies

Once I got it going to my taste, I transferred all my newsgroup activity to
Entourage. It's one of the nicest NNTP clients around.

A bit like those freeware photo editors: it lacks all the really powerful
features I simply never use, and it's thus so much faster and simpler to
drive than a "real" newsreader

I'm of an age where increasingly "less is more"

cheers

I service this group on a 12" iBook with the messages displayed in the
Entourage preview pane.

If I don't see the new text in that preview pane, I don't see the text at
all -- I just skip to the next post. I work in several groups: it has to be
a REALLY slow time of year before I slow down enough to scroll them

That's a fair point. It shows the value of high quality snippage.
(and short sig blocks)
Does Entourage let you go back over the whole thread to see greater
detail on slow days? And who posted what?

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Glad to oblige ;-).

Beth

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Elliott can get fresh with me any time he wants ;-).

Beth

 

[Phillip Jones]

OOOOOOOOOOwh! Getting a Love triangle going, huh? ;-)

Elliott can get fresh with me any time he wants ;-).

Beth

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

I just threw up in my mouth, you two...

(Yeah, it's a wonderful Line from a particularly trashy Reese Witherspoon
fluff-ball)

Elliott can get fresh with me any time he wants ;-).

Beth

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Merlin]

Those fonts named after cities are mostly left overs from ancient
versions of Mac OS. Did you steal some documents from a 1980's exhibit
at a museum?

I don't understand how a freshly installed Word 2004 would ask for
those fonts on a brand new machine. Did the museum miss the Macintosh
straight away?
(OK I jest, don't hit me)

The fonts must be in the document you are editing, or in that dreaded
normal template. Is there some history here?
If yes, and you don't care about the template, chuck it away while Word
is not running. You will find it in ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/

Word makes a shiny new fresh one next time you start. After reading
your other post, it looks like it needs chucking anyway.

<snip>

I'm really glad I found this response, thank you Elliott! I've been
looking for those damned capital cities for a month or two now - ever
since moving to FontExplorer from Suitcase Fusion.

However ...

Aren't these things self perpetuating? Isn't every document I have ever
created using the "old" Normal Template going to have the same font
requests attached? So now all of my documents will make the same
requests for the old fonts?

I followed your instructions to delete the Normal template and Word
started up without requesting the old fonts. Yes! Cracked it! Then
immediately I opened the most recently edited document, the requests
reappeared.

And doesn't Word save the latest version of Normal on quit so, even if I
clean up Normal, opening any old document will "infect" it again?

What puzzles me is that Fusion never reported these requests - maybe it
just ignored them? Their apppearance was linked for me to the
installation of FontExplorer - just as for the OP in fact.

Possible options:

get hold of the missing fonts and install them - any idea where to fiind
them? And where to put them?

tell FontExplorer always to ignore requests for them from Word - only
danger is if ever a valid request is made which is probably unlikely

find a way of "cleaning" the old documents of unused font requests - my
preferred option but I have no idea how to do it!

Would you like to comment on the options or suggest others? Oh, and
please put me right if my thoughts above on the infection mechanism are
wrong!

Thanks

Merl

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Merlin:

The "infection mechnism" is simply the "document" It's calling for
fonts you don't have. The fonts are not stored in either the document or
Word -- but the various formatting commands that you have used in the
document specify the names of fonts.

You can either install the fonts it wants, or change the fonts specified in
the document.

Look up "Font substitution" in the Word Help for instructions on how to
change the fonts in a document. You can do them all at once, or one-by-one.
You can substitute temporarily, or permanently. To make the change stick,
of course you have to save the document.

Hope this helps

--

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs

+61 4 1209 1410, <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]

 

[Merlin]

Hi Merlin:

The "infection mechnism" is simply the "document" It's calling for
fonts you don't have. The fonts are not stored in either the document or
Word -- but the various formatting commands that you have used in the
document specify the names of fonts.

You can either install the fonts it wants, or change the fonts specified in
the document.

Look up "Font substitution" in the Word Help for instructions on how to
change the fonts in a document. You can do them all at once, or one-by-one.
You can substitute temporarily, or permanently. To make the change stick,
of course you have to save the document.

Hope this helps

That was fast, John, thank you!

I also learned another aspect of Word which I hadn't touched before -
thanks again!

However the document in question gives the result: no font substitution
is necessary...

Additionally opening the font substitution window triggered two more
font not available messages.

I have recently cleared all the font caches btw.

IIUC I will need to treat each document individually (let's see now,
23,471, 23,472, ...) to clear out any calls for these old fonts. mmm...

But these documents do not use these fonts. 99% of my documents don't
stray beyond Times and Helvetica. I had assumed (OK, I know!) that the
font calls were made by the template used to create the document (ie
Normal) which forms part of the document. Something along the lines of
"template defines all the fonts used / available for use on the
document, document based on this template, therefore check that fonts
are available."

So where are these references to unused fonts coming from if not from
the Normal template?

Keith

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Keith:

You notice how delicately I tap-danced around saying things like "Formatting
commands you have used..." ??

That's because it's nearly impossible to figure out where these things are.
They can be in almost any strcture that formats text. There are thousands
of places they could be hiding. One that is almost impossible to detect is
in Bullets or Numbering list templates. There can be several hundred list
templates in a document, and NONE of them may be in use, actually applied to
any text in the document.

That's why I tend to use the global substitution method you just discovered.
It changes the names in the internal FONT table held in the document to
globally substitute the name of the font called wherever it is called.

OK, let's simlify the problem down to manageable proportions

The only documents we need to be concerned with are the ones you intend to
type in this week. So 23,470 of them can simply be ignored They call
for fonts you don't have: Word will automatically substitute the next
closest available font when you do open them, and until then, out of sight,
out of mind

Now here's a radical thought for you: Why are you USING a Font Manager at
all? I'm a documentation professional. I only use a couple of hundred. I
have them all loaded, and I do not run a Font Manager. These days, systems
have plenty of RAM, and if they do, there's no reason you shouldn't leave
your thousand favourite fonts permanently loaded!!

Yes, that will slow your boot-up time slightly. But in OS X, how often do
you actually boot the computer??

Now, if you get the Font Manager(s) out of the picture, many of the font
foibles OS X is sometimes guilty of, will simply go away.

Yes, that means your Font menu in Word is "longer". But most power users of
Word never use that menu Most of us customise the inbuilt styles to
provide all of the formatting we regularly use, and simply apply the styles
when we want the formatting. I doubt if I have used the Font menu EVER in
the past five years!! Compared to using styles, it's just too slow

Maybe some of that will help?

Cheers

--

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs

+61 4 1209 1410, <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]