Hi JR:
Wrong. This isn't some special place. This is Usenet.
No. It's not. That's one of my points. Usenet is irrelevant to what
happens in here.
People who include pages of messages in their replies are also
displaying poor etiquette. Proper Usenet etiquette suggests you trim
irrelevant quoted material in your replies:
No point in quoting Usenet RFCs at us in here: they don't apply. When I go
out into Usenet proper, I adhere. In here, they're not appropriate, and not
germane.
Yes, and that makes following proper etiquette even more important. I
wish everyone would - things would be much easier here.
Well, to begin with, that would make our job in here a lot more difficult.
I would not thank you for that
More importantly, it would make your efforts less valuable. Snippage is a
good idea on Usenet, where the objective is to have succinct "discussions"
and where posts typically have a short life-expectancy. In here, the
objective is to create persistent "Answers" that can be retained for years
on the SQL server and can be indexed, mined, tagged, and re-purposed in the
Web 2.0 space.
Snippage, bottom-posting, quoting, etc all have a purpose on Usenet. In
here, they make it more difficult to achieve the main purpose. Snipped
posts are great if everyone is up-to-speed and knows about threaded
discussions and how to read them. Most of our users do not know about
threaded discussions, and will never see the whole thread. Leaving the
thing unsnipped serves the purpose better.
Huh? But this *is* Usenet...
No. Please try to understand this point: it's quite important. This is not
Usenet.
You may be "seeing" us on Usenet. But 80 or 90 per cent of the people in
here are not on Usenet, and don't even know that Usenet exists. I am
directly connected to a Microsoft server in Redmond. It's like TV — you see
stuff on TV, but its not the same as actually being there. The real action
is on a server farm in Redmond. Usenet is just looking in through the back
window
That's what kill files, rules, and filters are for. ; )
I am sure you to use them. Several years ago, I finally accepted that
maintaining Naughty Lists (in groups like windows.vista.general) was taking
so much of my our time that I didn't actually have time to do what I came
here to do. Personally, I can't be bothered any more. I have had 27 years
of this: I was here before the great re-naming when the Big 7 became the Big
8. I have learned that if I have to use a killfile, I must have strayed
into a place that's not worth being in, so I go away!
Those tools enable an individual newsreader user to get a small degree of
protection from the immature behaviour of idiots. They are not effective
against the 'Net psychos, who employ mechanised methods to defeat them.
All of that is inconsequential to what we're trying to do here. Those tools
are not available to the majority of the users of this space — they're using
a browser or an RSS feed! Microsoft is trying to construct a community
that welcomes and warmly supports people who have neither the knowledge to
understand those tools, nor sufficient interest to set them up.
It has built a community in here to which users can come without needing to
protect themselves from the psycho-babble word-salad that bursts out from
time to time in Usenet.
I keep coming back to this point, because it's quite important: This is not
Usenet. You may be looking in from Usenet, but most of us are not. The
behaviour that passes for maturity in Usenet would destroy this community if
they let it in here. So Microsoft is going to keep it out. If that means
it has to keep Usenet out, well, that will be a pity but not important.
That would be a real shame. A lot of people would simply stop visiting
if it were strictly web based.
Nah!
Only about ten per cent would even notice. Check the headers in
here...
Same here. I rarely bother with them.
{Giggle} We agree on something
What they'd end up with instead is something less useful, I think.
Well, it's here now: do you find it less useful? You can get heavyweight
technical information in here. You can end up talking to the person who
designed or coded the application you're asking about, in here. You can
talk to the most expert users of that product in the world, in here. And
you don't need a killfile
Oh now I see the distinction you're making. Okay.
Ooops... My bad! "CompuServe" is where it *started*. Then it moved to
Usenet, then Microsoft started the "hosting" server, then they moved it onto
the SQL farm.
If Microsoft took their ball and went home, people on Usenet would find
another suitable news group on Usenet to get help. For instance, I'm
betting comp.sys.mac.apps would get a lot of extra visitors as a result.
I'm really not worried about that. Usenet is plenty useful - with or
without Microsoft-owned news groups.
Well, Microsoft would never try to claim that it *owns* newsgroups
As
we both know, that is not possible. Microsoft does own its "Communities".
The Communities have a lot of features and functions that NNTP does not
support (and they are rapidly gaining more).
Some of us old farts are fighting a rear-guard action to preserve the Usenet
interface. But with every outburst of bad behaviour, we lose a few more
votes. Every self-centred pimply youth that comes in and starts giving
everyone the benefit of their immaturity does a little bit of harm. Unless
we really try hard, sooner rather than later Microsoft will flip that switch
in Redmond and cut Usenet adrift. And the majority of the users here will
simply never notice.
Personally, I think that would be sad...
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John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:
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