Word thinks some styles are headings

[Ric Barline]

I was working along just fine, using document map to navigate around
my (rather long) document, when all of a sudden the document map
started showing all my captions and a few other custom styles!
According to Word help, document map is only supposed to show
headings. So Word suddenly thinks my catpion paragraphs (and a few
other custom styles) are headings. I looked in outline view and sure
enough, they are all showing up there too. Is this some sort of file
corruption? Any ideas on a fix?

 

[Clive Huggan]

Ric,

It isn't a file corruption -- it's a "feature" [from hell]!

Document Map has modified your document. It happens this way: if your
styles do not have their outline level set correctly for your headings (e.g.
you have emboldened Normal style for headings instead of using default
heading styles), Document Map will add an outline level property to
paragraphs it "thinks" are headings. But even with the default series of
headings (Heading 1 through Heading 9), I've found that Document Map has
allocated heading outline levels to paragraphs styled in Normal style. The
reason appears to be that the paragraphs only occupied one line. The
formatting that Document Map imposed could *not* be reversed nor removed by
closing the document without saving changes. Thereafter, the outline view
for this document was useless, because many such changes had been made by
Word. If I hadn't backed up the document beforehand, it would have been a
long job to remove the imposed formatting.

You can see why most of us in these newsgroups recommend not using Document
Map at all, but instead switching to Outline View when needed. There are
some limitations with navigation compared with Document Map, but at least it
isn't schizoid...

I hope you had made a recent backup copy of your document... :-|

If I had to re-format a long document that had been changed extensively by
Document Map, I would consider copying it and doing a Paste Special (plain
text) into a new blank document, re-allocating styles from scratch, and
dragging across from the useless document any complex non-style formatting.)

-- Clive Huggan
* Please post all comments to the newsgroup for the benefit of others who
may be interested.
* Remove "the" from my address above if you need to send an e-mail to me
directly (although that would be exceptional). Please note that e-mails
with an attachment will be automatically rejected.
* If anyone is still reading down this far, here's a question: is it time
for you to back up your Normal template and all your Word settings? (This
should be on a medium other than the internal hard drive and, to protect
against theft and fire, stored in a different building.)
============================================================

 

[Ric Barline]

Wow! Thanks! And shame on Microsoft for making Word so "smart" that
it figures any paragraph that is not more than a single line MUST be a
heading! You are right - it did all my captions because, guess
what....they are all only a single line!

No, it was too late for me to go back by the time I noticed it, so I guess
I will just leave it that way, and in the future I won't use Document
View! I can live with it this time, since it is mainly only my captions,
unless you can think of any reason why it would be dangerous to
proceed with working on this document.

Again, thanks!

 

[Clive Huggan]

Thanks for getting back, Ric -- a pleasant courtesy that makes things
worthwhile!

I'd say you can be confident using the document, since I'm not aware of
Document Map corrupting a document, as distinct from mangling the
formatting. (If you wanted to be sure to be sure, you could Show Paragraph
Marks (Command-8), select all the document *except* the last paragraph mark,
copy and paste into a new blank document. This is the standard procedure to
overcome most forms of corruption, and since it takes only seconds to do, I
guess I'd be doing it despite the low likelihood of corruption.)

One does ponder what demented genius thought this one up. A rainy afternoon,
nothing else to program today, Marketing Department on the phone demanding
"Give us one more bell and whistle we can use to impress new purchasers..."?

Cheers

--Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia

 

[Ric Barline]

Hi Clive. I don't mean to turn this into a chat session, but your last post
brings up a couple issues that I would like to ask you about. First of all,
what is it about the last paragraph mark in a word document that
makes it contain all the corruption in the whole file? Second, about the
document map problem, I have never read anything in Word
documentation about this, nor can I find it in any of the on-line
help topics. Has Microsoft actually documented this "feature" in their
knowledge base, and if so, do you know the number of any
knowledge base articles? Thanks.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Chatting about our software is what this newsgroup is all about, Ric -- so
don't be at all reluctant! Your further query is very welcome. People giving
advice also find it useful, because follow-up questions often stimulate a
new way of looking at things, leading to our using the software better, or
at least different ways of explaining the process. And it helps the hundreds
of people who are just quietly watching the discussions so as to improve
their skills.

To your first question. Coincidentally, John McGhie posted this outline of
the significance of the final paragraph only yesterday (he was speaking in a
graphics context):

"The last paragraph mark hides the document master section break, which
contains all of the properties of the document except the text. It also
contains all of the pictures! Pictures in Word do not sit in the text, they
are all stored in a container at the end of the document: the only thing in
the text is a pointer that tells you which picture to put here.

"If you have ever saved that document to a previous version of Word, or
saved it to RTF, you can get a vast lump of corrupted graphics information
stranded in the final section break. Copying all except the last paragraph
mark to a fresh new document can sometimes cure these problems. Graphics in
headers and footers are a particular problem: the headers and footers are a
complex look-up list stored in that final section break also. They seem
rather prone to corruption if the document ahs been edited a lot. Or to
damage of the document contains bad pictures."

As to the second question, I haven't heard of the document map problem being
on Microsoft's knowledge base. As a general observation, companies don't
like to talk too much about shortcomings in their products, given the
litigious world we live in, and given the continual improvements being made
(Word 2002 for Windows, I hear, has an improved document map -- if so, that
should appear in the next Mac version). Similarly, I haven't seen it in Word
Help (someone may jump in and correct me on this.) Most worthwhile
discussion of faults and work-arounds takes place on the MVPs' newsgroups
such as this one (MVPs are unpaid volunteers, independent of Microsoft but
recognized as experts by Microsoft, who help out via their newsgroups for
all sorts of reasons, a wish to "help in small ways" seeming to be foremost;
and people like me help them out occasionally by way of acknowledging the
huge amount of help we've had in the past). The MVPs' website also has a
heap of useful articles at www.mvps.org/word/FAQs -- including those at
www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/WordMac/index.htm

You can search all previous discussions by using your web browser to go to
Google¹s advanced search (http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en)
and keying in the term you want, e.g. "paragraph mark". In the field against
"Return only messages from the newsgroup", key in this newsgroup,
"microsoft.public.mac.office.word". Another good one is
microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs (it's overwhelmingly a Word for
Windows forum, but the differences from Word for Mac are minor). For this
present topic, you might like to key "John McGhie" in the Author field --
John has explained various facets of this phenomenon in many contexts.

Above all, stick around, Ric. It's amazing the things that can be picked up
from the demented souls around here!

.... Including from people who often come in after a post like this to add
more expert advice.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan

 

[Ric Barline]

Thanks a lot Clive for the very complete answers to my questions. I will
take your advice and do the google search you mentioned. This sounds
like a great way to find the answers to a whole bunch of questions about
all kind of things.

And I will stick around too. I have bookmarked this newsgroup and do
look at it regularly. You guys who answer questions on a volunteer basis
should get a medal or something. I am surprised that MSoft doesn't at
least fly you up to Redmond Washington for a free tour of the campus.

 

[Ric Barline]

Interestingly, this type of advanced google search (where you select
"Return only messages from the newsgroup") does not work in Apple's
Safari browser. I had to resort to using Internet Explorer to use this
technique (icky poo....:~)

You can search all previous discussions by using your web browser to
go to
Google¹s advanced search (http://www.google.com/
advanced_group_search?hl=en)
and keying in the term you want, e.g. "paragraph mark". In the field
against
"Return only messages from the newsgroup", key in this newsgroup,
"microsoft.public.mac.office.word". Another good one is

 

[John McGhie [MVP]]

Hi Clive:

I'd say you can be confident using the document, since I'm not aware of
Document Map corrupting a document, as distinct from mangling the
formatting. (If you wanted to be sure to be sure, you could Show Paragraph
Marks (Command-8), select all the document *except* the last paragraph mark,
copy and paste into a new blank document. This is the standard procedure to
overcome most forms of corruption, and since it takes only seconds to do, I
guess I'd be doing it despite the low likelihood of corruption.)

That manoeuvre won't fix Document Map's mangling. Document Map resets the
Outline Level on the paragraphs, but it does so as direct formatting. So
anything you do to fix the styles will only make things worse.

What you "could" do is record a macro that finds every instance of the
caption style, selects the paragraph, then removes direct formatting and
replaces the Caption style. It's a fiddly macro to record, but it would fix
it

One does ponder what demented genius thought this one up. A rainy afternoon,
nothing else to program today, Marketing Department on the phone demanding
"Give us one more bell and whistle we can use to impress new purchasers..."?

Clive, we do ask you not to discuss the specifics of Microsoft's software
development methodology in public Yes, that's exactly what happened.
The demand was for "Internet Everywhere", and they wanted to make documents
work like web pages.

Document Map does not actually do as much damage as you might think. People
who use it have no idea of styles or structured documents, so they never
notice the damage it does. People who do know about structured
documentation use Outline View instead: it's far more powerful.

Cheers

--
All Spam and attachments blocked by Microsoft Entourage for Mac OS X. Please
post replies to the newsgroup to maintain the thread.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP: Word for Macintosh and Word for Windows
Consultant Technical Writer <[email protected]>
+61 4 1209 1410; Sydney, Australia: GMT + 10 hrs

 

[John McGhie [MVP]]

Hi Ric:

Thanks a lot Clive for the very complete answers to my questions. I will
take your advice and do the google search you mentioned. This sounds
like a great way to find the answers to a whole bunch of questions about
all kind of things.

And I will stick around too. I have bookmarked this newsgroup and do
look at it regularly. You guys who answer questions on a volunteer basis
should get a medal or something. I am surprised that MSoft doesn't at
least fly you up to Redmond Washington for a free tour of the campus.

The whole idea of this news group (any newsgroup, actually...) is that
like-minded people gather here to discuss a topic of common interest, pool
ideas, and help each other out.

The MVPs are not "supposed" to answer all the questions in the newsgroup: in
fact, they don't even try. An MVP is simply another user of the software,
just like anyone else. We tend to be quite passionate about our chosen
product, and we love to help people with it, and to learn from others about
it.

MVPs are just users, and there are few similarities between us in normal
life. Few of us are actually in the computer industry full time. In this
group I happen to know that we have a jewellery designer, a former submarine
commander, a religious scholar, a professor of music, and a housewife. And
I'm not going to tell you which is which I will tell you that *I* am
the odd one out: for several reasons. The first is that I am actually
moonlighting over here from the PC Word group: I am awarded as a Word
specialist, not a Mac specialist. The other guys know what they're talking
about I bought a Mac laptop and the rot set in: I am writing this on
the train on the way home from work, where I do most of my newsgroup
activity. In my day job, I began in mainframe publishing systems in 1976,
long before desktop publishing was mature: I worked extensively on the
system that prints the Sydney Morning Herald and the Washington Post (among
others). I am a consulting Documentation Engineer by trade, which means I
design large suites of documentation (these days, usually help files and web
sites). And I *am* in the software industry full time, working for a large
computer manufacturer currently. But that's just me: I'm diseased. The
other MVPs are nice people. Really they are. Although you would be wise to
leave the car at home if you ever have a drink with them...

So what we "expect" is that everyone who comes here will take what they can
use, and put back in what they already know. Of course, we hope that they
will enjoy themselves while they do that. And if they do enough of it, and
keep it up, one day they may just get an email from Microsoft. And it won't
be a hoax. And it's the greatest feeling in the world: some of the best of
the best in the world at this subject have decided that they want you to
join them. It's pretty neat

And yes, it does come with a trip to Redmond to see the Microsoft campus

Cheers

--
All Spam and attachments blocked by Microsoft Entourage for Mac OS X. Please
post replies to the newsgroup to maintain the thread.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP: Word for Macintosh and Word for Windows
Consultant Technical Writer <[email protected]>
+61 4 1209 1410; Sydney, Australia: GMT + 10 hrs

 

[Clive Huggan]

Two comments below -- one of them an example of the sound of an insight
hitting its target. Thank you, John!

Hi Clive:



That manoeuvre won't fix Document Map's mangling.

Ah, of course!

Document Map resets the Outline Level on the paragraphs, but it does so as direct formatting. So
anything you do to fix the styles will only make things worse.

What you "could" do is record a macro that finds every instance of the
caption style, selects the paragraph, then removes direct formatting and
replaces the Caption style. It's a fiddly macro to record, but it would fix
it

Or in a shorter document, you could select each paragraph styled with
Caption style and key Command-Option-q to restore the characteristics of the
Caption style, i.e. without any manual formatting?

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hello Ric,

You can tell when the track has been recently repaired under the train on
John's way home -- his responses are longer and even more eloquent and
wide-ranging than the usual! Not because of the relative lack of lurching
and bumping affecting his keyboard, but because the fear of a massive crash
-- an ever-present reality on Sydney's rail system -- has been lulled out of
the commuters.

John describes the polyglot MVPs rather well. But the majority of people
who comment in this newsgroup (which isn't, of course, the same as "the
majority of responses") have not had the fabled Email from Redmond, and
participate for the same reason as the MVPs.

In my case I started to contribute ideas because of a feeling of gratitude
for receiving information at a level that just isn't available anywhere
else, and which eventually allowed me to upgrade to a similar level of
expertise to the level I had achieved in Word 5.1, in all its rock-solid,
bell-and-whistle-free glory.

As time went on, another factor came in. I can put it into words now, thanks
to a comment by a fellow Word user in this newsgroup, who said:

'So, isn¹t it wonderful, all the possibilities that we have today? There is
somebody from Australia, helping somebody else in far, far Russia. I think
we sometimes take all these new possibilities for granted but I still
remember the "good old days" when this was not a normal day-to-day task.
....And today we communicate with people from down-under as if they would
live next door.'

Thinking about this, I concluded that the more we share information and help
each other via the Internet -- even with things as trivial as word
processing -- the more we will "do our small bit" to counter the plague of
xenophobia throughout the world and realize our common human qualities.

Back to MVPs: they may be "just users" as John says, but the qualities that
make them unique are their level of expertise and their continuity at the
newsgroup -- and, in this particular newsgroup, their constant willingness
to take the trouble to give in-depth explanations and follow-ups on which to
build more insights. Their expertise is not only reflected in their
responses but also in the comments that sometimes supplement the replies
that people like me make, adding to *our* knowledge too.

I can say all that without blushing because, like the majority of people who
help out here, I'm not an MVP. Can't say I'd reach a state of ecstasy that
John relates on getting an Email from Redmond either, but I'm an old cynic
anyway...

And thanks for your kind remarks -- a warm and fuzzy feeling does everyone a
power of good!

Cheers

-- Clive Huggan